Yikes.

After playing through two and a half LP sides without incident, the BG4002 just plain stopped in mid-song.  Now the platter won't even turn.

chartz:

(Almost) well done!

Those relays are nothing but trouble... On my Beogram CD3300 the same relay poses the same problems. Even after a good cleanup the problem reappears. I haven't been able to source any so far (the flat ones with the same pinout disposition).

Should anyone here have a reliable supply source, please let us know!

You are not alone Jacques

Sounds silly but have you checked if the belt is still attached?

 

 

 

hahahahah look at my post count :)

 

*2nd edit I didn't realise my edit would move my count on :(

Step1:

Sounds silly but have you checked if the belt is still attached?

Nothing is silly.  Heck, last night when I put the BG4002 back into the main system, I started playing a record before I'd even put the cartridge back on!

I will open the deck Friday night after work and have another look at things.  Today is my anniversary, so the in-laws are staying over with the kids while the Fabric Selector and I get a rare night on the town.

Rich:

Today is my anniversary, so the in-laws are staying over with the kids while the Fabric Selector and I get a rare night on the town.

Found something for the FS, here

Opened up the deck last night, and yes, the belt was still there.

When I press "33" (to clean a record before playing), the fine speed control lights up, but nothing else happens.

When I press Start (with or without a record on the platter, with or without the belt in place, with or without the platter on), the tonearm moves into position to play an LP and drops the cartridge onto the record.  The motor is not spinning.

I removed the motor last night (temporarily) and saw that it was marked 3V DC.  There are three wires coming out of it.  Can I just hook the motor up to a battery to see if the motor is OK?  If yes, which of the three wires would be hooked up to what?

I also attempted to disassemble the motor as "cleaning the motor and lubricating it" has been noted above as a possible fix for the original speed problems I was having.  The motor is basically a can within a can.  I got the inner can out of the outer can (two very small screws), but then the inner can has three more small screws I could not get loosened.  In order to "clean and lubricate" the motor, I assume these three screws are my last obstacle.  Is there a trick to getting them out?  Or is it just brute force?

Or - and this is how I'm leaning - is it time to ship the deck off to a professional?

Rich,

Rather than send boards, parts, etc... as we have discussed... I am going to box and send off the best of my remaining 4002/4's.

I had a bittersweet arrival in the mail today...

Hey the same as mine!

It sounds great you will see, it is entirely worth its price!

Now you really have to fix your deck...

chartz:

Now you really have to fix your deck...

NOT fixing this deck is NOT an option...

Rich:

chartz:

Now you really have to fix your deck...

NOT fixing this deck is NOT an option...

Thats the spirit, and keep us informed, and when you finish, we want to "hear" Frankie goes to Hollywood, with your new cartridge.

Keep at it Rich, and good luck.

 

Hi Guys

@ Rich

Reading this thread has been invaluable. I've also got speed problems. 33.3rpm runs abt 3-5% too slow at max + adjustment and 45rpm hoplessly slower than 33.3rpm. So it appears it could be that relay on board 8. I have already had the relay out to clean the contacts better, using 2000grit 3M abrasive paper. This didn't help much and the ordinary paper pull through will have to be done. I have also noticed a strange, brown crumbly crust below the relay. Not sure what this could be.

Btw, be careful with the motor. If you remove its rotor, be very careful with bend or break damage to the brushes. Push the brushes away from the commutator with a toothpick and the same on re-assembly.

Also, the motor will only spin in one of three locations of the metal housings. Mark them before separating.

andre/dauphine 

Søren Mexico:

Rich:

chartz:

Now you really have to fix your deck...

NOT fixing this deck is NOT an option...

Thats the spirit, and keep us informed, and when you finish, we want to "hear" Frankie goes to Hollywood, with your new cartridge.

Keep at it Rich, and good luck.

 

Just to keep everyone up to speed:

I have purchased two BG3404s from Ebay, one sans cartridge and one with an MMC20EN.  Between the two of these decks, I hope at least one works well enough for awhile, because....

The BG4002 has been sent off to a professional.  Said professional has finished work on my BM4000 and I should be receiving it this week.

So look for a new thread from me soon when my system is (almost) back up.

Andre personally I do not use anything abraisive on switch contacts in general ESPECIALLY if I cannot see what I am doing.  The contact could have a thin plating that might be completly removed by said method so best to use a gentler method or replace the relay altogether.

Regarding the brown stuff is it foam that has deteriated...?

Relay (and most switch) contacts always have a surface plating. Remove it, and the relay may work for some time, but depending on the current the contacts carry, it may only last a week or two before you're back at the beginning. If it won't work after non-abrasive cleaning (isopropanol and pulling a rough paper through between the points), you'll need to replace it - the points are worn beyond help.

But if the points have oxidized due to lack of use in storage, simple cleaning or just exercising the relay a number of times may bring it back to operation. For example the muting relay in my Beomaster 6500 was acting up when bought it. I never got around to replacing it - now more than three years later, it's still in there, and doesn't give any problems at all!

OK, here's my 2 cents worth

 

Firstly, you're all doing a great job! Keep it up.

Secondly, here's a link to a similar relay V23012-A2105-B001.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RELAY-V23012-A2105-B001-SIEMENS-24V-PCB-mount-/190493854232

 

Now, pay attention , because this is the really important part.

 

I have no idea if the advertised relay will work, because the original B&O relay V23012-A2105-X008 has a very unusual configuration.

It is a double-pole, double-throw configuration, but on this B&O unit, the normally-open / normally-closed pins are Asymmetrical.

No idea why B&O couldn't buy a regular Symmetrical relay, and route the PCB traces to suit.

 

Here is a picture 6-7NO 8-9NC (B&O Original), and if you buy this ebay unit, you need to check that it has the identical asymmetrical construction as the B&O original, before installing it.

 

Otherwise, buy a Tyco-PotterBrumfield RTE24024F or RT424024F unit from Mouser, and wire it appropriately, then lay it down with some double-sided tape on the PCB.

I have restored 7 of these DC units in the last few years, but have not had any relay problems. The owners are in touch with me from time to time, and relay problems have not cropped up, so I don't know whether this will solve Rich's and Andre's problem....

Menahem

"I have also noticed a strange, brown crumbly crust below the relay. Not sure what this could be."

It's the remains of the cork insulator between the relay and the PCB.

Your relay was running HOT, and so it "cooked the cork"  

To prevent damage to the PCB, it's advisable to insulate the relay from the PCB with some other substance about 1mm thich, maybe bicycle inner-tube rubber.

Menahem

Look what came to work today.

 

Step 1:  pour some home brew.  This particular home brew I call "Black and Tan Your Hide."  It's a blend of a brown ale and an Irish stout with added "booster" to take the alcohol content up over 6%.

 

Step 2:  open box.  Benny Amina of Modular Electronics fixed the BG4002.  He had me remove and not send the dust cover, top platter, and cartridge.  With the dust cover removed, I found this box in my garage and fixed it over the tone arm.  Aside from engaging the transport screws, that was pretty much all the precautions we took in shipping the BG4002 between Orlando, FL and Atlanta, GA.

 

Step 3:  remove turntable from box and peak under the top plate to look at your new motor.  The primary problem with my BG4002, according to Benny, was a bad motor.

Step 4:  dig the top platter and dust cover out of the box in the garage and reassemble.  The only PITA I've encountered with my B&O turntables - 2 RX2s and 2 3404s - is the dust cover.

Not so with the BG4002.  Two screws on the bottom - beautiful design.

Step 5:  loosen the 3 transport screws on the bottom.

 

Step 6:  adjust tracking force.  Benny had the tracking force about 1.1 - 1.2 grams.  I adjusted it to 1.2 - 1.3 grams for the new Soundsmith SMMC20EN.

 

Step 7:  set table in rack and install cartridge.