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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 06-11-2011 6:17 PM by Evan. 8 replies.
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  • 06-08-2011 4:06 PM

    DAC's used in in B&O products

    I have read different posts about the DAC's used by B&O, and that they generally are in a very good quality. I have a few questions, which I hope someone can answer.
    1) How is the quality defined of a DAC from B&O perspective?
    I can see on i.e. this Wiki page, that can be a big difference on a DAC:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital-to-analog_converter

    2) Is it the same DAC quality in all B&O products? I.e. if I listen to music on my BV7 from my BM5, then I have 2 options today:
    a - use the DAC of the BV7 as the sound is transmitted to BV7 via SPDIF (PC -> N.MUSIC).
    b - use the DAC of the BM5 if I play over the ML (N.MUSIC)
    Should I be able to hear a difference?

    3) What is the price normally on a DAC used by B&O?

    4) How can you hear the difference between a good and a bad DAC?

    I guess this is not a common question from a B&O customer, we actually just expect that B&O make sure that the sound is "as good as possible" Smile

    Thanks in advance.

    There is something about B&O.....

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  • 06-08-2011 4:12 PM In reply to

    Re: DAC's used in in B&O products

    BM 5 = Wolfson mikroelectronics WM8741 32/192? Hmm

    BS 1, BeoCom 2, 2x LC 2, Form 2,  BS 2, BS 3, 2x Beo 4, BS 5, BM 5, BL 5,Beo 6, BS 6, 2x A8, BV 8-40, BL 8000, 3x A9 Keyring, Serenata, BeoTime, BeoTalk 400

  • 06-08-2011 4:26 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: DAC's used in in B&O products

    alenvprekrsku:

    BM 5 = Wolfson mikroelectronics WM8741 32/192? Hmm

    Last I heard it was an Analog Devices AD1862 when released - unless it's changed since then.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 06-09-2011 1:31 AM In reply to

    • Evan
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    Re: DAC's used in in B&O products

    alenvprekrsku:
    32/192

    24 bit / 192khz seem to be the current standard so 32 bit / 192khz must be better...?

    Evan

     

  • 06-09-2011 4:41 AM In reply to

    • Alex
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    Re: DAC's used in in B&O products

    Evan:

    alenvprekrsku:
    32/192

    24 bit / 192khz seem to be the current standard so 32 bit / 192khz must be better...?

    Kinda irrelavent - those extra 8 bits will just give you an extra 48dB of dynamic range at the quietest parts. No speaker system on the face of the planet will come anywhere close to the resolution required to discern the difference, let alone your ears. 24bits give us 144dB of dynamic range before you hit the system floor, which is more than enough! 192KHz though defintely does make a difference though, but as most of your music will be coming out at 44.1KHz 16bit, what's the point?

    As for the differences between DACs in the B&O range, it's difficult to say unless you line them all up with the same pair of speakers in the same location. I personally heard BeoLab 3s with the most number of systems, and to me they were always best with the BeoSound 4 (a combination which I thought sounded absolutely fantastic).

    The differences between DACs can be surprisingly large. I have a choice of three in my current monitoring system, those built into my Fireface 800, the outputs from my Yamaha 01V96 and a Sonic Solutions BBC broadcast DAC. Out of the lot, the Yamaha is the best, with the Fireface just sounding angular and two-dimensional, while the Sonic Solutions sounds crunchy and a little messy to me, but in a musical way.

    Interestingly, using the Yamaha outputs gives me a noticeable increase in low-end punch and extension, but my speakers aren't working as hard (less cone movement, amps don't get as warm). Strange...

     Weekly top artists:                   

  • 06-09-2011 6:41 AM In reply to

    Re: DAC's used in in B&O products

    Alex:

    As for the differences between DACs in the B&O range, it's difficult to say unless you line them all up with the same pair of speakers in the same location. I personally heard BeoLab 3s with the most number of systems, and to me they were always best with the BeoSound 4 (a combination which I thought sounded absolutely fantastic).

    As I listen to the BL9 on my BV7 with these 2 scenarios
    1: BM5 via command N.MUSIC (=Master Link)
    2: BM5 via command PC (SPDIF from BM5 to BV7)

    then I might be able to notice a difference? I thought I could notice a difference, which I found a little strange.

    There is something about B&O.....

  • 06-09-2011 10:51 AM In reply to

    • Stan
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    Re: DAC's used in in B&O products

    This may be a valid test scenario as you can use the same speakers, music, room and location.  I guess there may be some question as to the different signal paths between N.Music and PC  through the BV (does the N.Music signal go directly to the speakers without the BV modifying it?  Does the SPDIF input go through any surround sound processors?). If you're just trying to see which you prefer (vs. identify differences induced solely by the DAC), then none of this really matters as it is the end result at your ears is that is important.

    To be even more precise, have somebody else press "PC" vs. "N.Music" so you don't know which and which (and tell them to be sneaky and not always switch or switch back quickly as part of the same switch when they say they are switching).  This would help eliminate your brain from tricking you into hearing differences.  One area of caution is that the volume may be slightly different because of differences in the signal path, and louder tends to sound better when people are comparing two musical sources.  You would need to calibrate things so that PC and N.Music play at identical levels as you switch back and forth.

    I seem to recall some threads in the past about TVs music processing not being quite as good as music systems, but I didn't own a TV at the time so I didn't really pay too close attention, maybe you could search that out or some other member can point you in that direction.

    Stan

  • 06-10-2011 1:41 AM In reply to

    • Dillen
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    Re: DAC's used in in B&O products

    Curiously, the CD players that usually gets the most positive comments are the older ones, that is Beogram CDX and CD50.
    Their sound is so warm and pleasant.
    The CDX is merely a 14 bit machine and the way the CD50 is built will have you stop and wonder why it works.
    I may be biased towards the older stuff anyways, but my own feeling is that the newer the machine and the more plentyful the bits,
    the more sterile, unpleasant and almost boring the sound.

    Martin

  • 06-11-2011 6:17 PM In reply to

    • Evan
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    Re: DAC's used in in B&O products

    Alex:
    24bits give us 144dB of dynamic range before you hit the system floor, which is more than enough! 192KHz though defintely does make a difference though, but as most of your music will be coming out at 44.1KHz 16bit, what's the point?

    Thanks for taking the time with that post Alex.

    Based on that up there, I snagged a Sound Blaster card a couple hours ago with those exact specs, 24/192.

    Smile

    Evan

     

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