I am confused. I'm trying to figure out the workings around my new BeoVision 7-40 with Beo6, controlling the Set-Top Box Grundig DTR8860 PVR via PUC. It kind of works, but with serious shortcomings. I don't have it all sorted out yet, but at least:

 o The DTV button on the Beo6 display doesn't wake the BV7 up from standby alone; the centre button must be pressed as well. If BV7 is not in standby, but in another mode (DVD, CD, etc.) then DTV has no effect, not even with centre button. To go from, say DVD to DTV, I have to turn the BV7 off into standby first.

 o The PLAY button on Beo6 works as an OK button to dig down the menu hierarchy on the 8860, but there is no corresponding button to return from a menu. I would assume the BACK button should do the trick, but there is no reaction.

 o The STOP button makes the 8860 pause when I play a recording, but there is no way to resume after a pause. PLAY just takes me back to the list of recordings.

 o The 8860 is able to pause even when watching normal TV, then resume the now recorded program or step forward to resume real time watching. Nothing of this is possible with Beo6/PUC.

Which makes me wonder...

Q1 Is this normal behaviour for PUC / DTR8860?

Q2 If the problems are due to the PUC programming, is there a way that I can get into it and correct them?

Q3 How does the PUC programming really work, with DEC files and so on?

Q4 Does anybody have any remotely relevant experience with PUC?

Sigmund

Seems your Beo6 is programmed to "NAVIGATION BUTTON", but should be "NO NAVIGATION BUTTON" in your setup, because I think the PUC for the Grundig box is a "1.XX" PUC. That means the PUC is mapped to the codes of the "ols" Beo4 without navigation button.

Check with your dealer the Grundig PUC version. If it is "1.XX", ask him to reprogram your Beo6 - it`s just one step to change.

"o The DTV button on the Beo6 display doesn't wake the BV7 up from standby alone; the centre button must be pressed as well. If BV7 is not in standby, but in another mode (DVD, CD, etc.) then DTV has no effect, not even with centre button. To go from, say DVD to DTV, I have to turn the BV7 off into standby first."

That sounds a bit strange to me. But check if DTV is disabled for the internal modul. You find it in the customer service menu. Or try another mode: for example V.MEM or DVD. You can set up these modes in the connections menu. All these modes should activate your BV7 AND your stb - without pressing SELECT...

" o The PLAY button on Beo6 works as an OK button to dig down the menu hierarchy on the 8860, but there is no corresponding button to return from a menu. I would assume the BACK button should do the trick, but there is no reaction."

Press the BACK button a bit longer. Now you should have EXIT function.

" o The STOP button makes the 8860 pause when I play a recording, but there is no way to resume after a pause. PLAY just takes me back to the list of recordings."

What are you pressing on the original remote? Maybe it`s STOP 8pause) again or just OK (center button)...(?)

" o The 8860 is able to pause even when watching normal TV, then resume the now recorded program or step forward to resume real time watching. Nothing of this is possible with Beo6/PUC."

See above. Did you try STOP again to resume time shift and try the arrow buttons on Beo6 for step forward/backwards. Maybe there are also buttons on the screen calles "wind" "rewind", something. Can also be located on another page of the Beo6...

"
Q1 Is this normal behaviour for PUC / DTR8860?"

Yes and no.. I think it`s a problem with old and new Beo codes in the PUC and for the Beo remotes...

"
Q2 If the problems are due to the PUC programming, is there a way that I can get into it and correct them?"

No.

"Q3 How does the PUC programming really work, with DEC files and so on?"

No clue...

"Q4 Does anybody have any remotely relevant experience with PUC?"

??

Stefan

Thank you Stefan, you have given me something to chew on.

==> Seems your Beo6 is programmed to "NAVIGATION BUTTON", but should be "NO NAVIGATION BUTTON" in your setup, ...

Yes, Beo6 was programmed to NAVIGATION BUTTON. When I switched to NO NAVIGATION BUTTON, the BACK button provided pause for unrecorded TV watching, but that's all. There was no resume, neither resume after pause nor resume to live TV. As a negative side effect the blu-ray's resume function stopped working correctly. Instead of just PLAY I would have to press yellow, then PLAY.

I have emailed the retailer about the Grundig PUC version, but he doesn't answer. However, he is going to take a look at my Beo6 tomorrow and "do some programming changes".

==> But check if DTV is disabled for the internal modul. You find it in the customer service menu.
What does it mean that DTV is disabled for the internal modul? Where is the customer service menu? Pardon me for asking simple questions, but I am new to this.

The internal TV tuner is disabled. The display button "TV" activates both the BV7 and the 8860 STB, without the need of centre button - but the available commands on the Beo6 display are the analog TV ones, not DTV. In order to, say, change channel, I have to turn the BV7 off into standby, then on again with DTV + centre, then choose the appropriate channel.

Your answer indicates that my DTV display button does not work as it should, which is encouraging for my further investigation.

==> Or try another mode: for example V.MEM or DVD.

All other modes work directly, without need of the centre button: TV, DVD, V.MEM, RADIO, CD, A.TAPE, A.AUX, PC. It is only the DTV button that needs the additional centre button. DTV is also the only PUC-driven command.

==> Press the BACK button a bit longer. Now you should have EXIT function.

Pressing BACK longer definitely had an effect, but not always the desired one. I will have to do some systematic investigation on this.

==> What are you pressing on the original remote?

By original remote you mean Grundig's, right? To select a menu I press OK. The BACK button takes me back up one level in the menu hierarchy.

In order to pause I press the button with the pause symbol (double bars). The play button (triangle) resumes the viewing. After a pause in a normal TV emission there is a time lag due to the pause. When I want to skip the pause and return to real time watching there is a Live TV button. (The remote for an earlier Grundig STB had no Live TV button and used the play button while in play mode to accomplish the same.)

I tried the arrows on the Beo6 for some wind and rewind functions, but found no effect. At this point I don't think it is possible to get something out of it, due to the dysfunctionality of the basic functions and the slowliness of everything - both B&O's boxes and Grundig's. I'll look at this later.

How is it possible to map the buttons so badly and illogically? Why can't they just do the following mapping:

Beo6 centre -> Grundig OK
Beo6 BACK -> Grundig BACK
Beo6 STOP -> Grundig pause (double bars)
Beo6 PLAY -> Grundig play (triangle)

Sigmund

Sigmund:

==> Seems your Beo6 is programmed to "NAVIGATION BUTTON", but should be "NO NAVIGATION BUTTON" in your setup, ...

Yes, Beo6 was programmed to NAVIGATION BUTTON. When I switched to NO NAVIGATION BUTTON, the BACK button provided pause for unrecorded TV watching, but that's all. There was no resume, neither resume after pause nor resume to live TV. As a negative side effect the blu-ray's resume function stopped working correctly. Instead of just PLAY I would have to press yellow, then PLAY.

I have emailed the retailer about the Grundig PUC version, but he doesn't answer. However, he is going to take a look at my Beo6 tomorrow and "do some programming changes".

Beo6 has to be programmed with the config. tool. So you have to change the setting in the config. tool and transfer the modified configuration to your Beo6 via USB. I guess you switch your BV7-40 to NO NAVIGATION BUTTON, right?

Sigmund:

==> But check if DTV is disabled for the internal modul. You find it in the customer service menu.
What does it mean that DTV is disabled for the internal modul? Where is the customer service menu? Pardon me for asking simple questions, but I am new to this.

The internal TV tuner is disabled. The display button "TV" activates both the BV7 and the 8860 STB, without the need of centre button - but the available commands on the Beo6 display are the analog TV ones, not DTV. In order to, say, change channel, I have to turn the BV7 off into standby, then on again with DTV + centre, then choose the appropriate channel.

Why don`t you use the TV mode, as it is already disabled and can be used for external devices? Seems TV mode is working properly. Your dealer should map the Grundig PUC to TV mode, and you can use DTV mode for the internal DVB (HD) modul...

Press MENU (BV7 menu), scroll to CONNECTIONS (tilslutninger) and press RED - GO (center). Now the customer service menu should be displayed. Check the SW version. If you have just bought the BV new from a dealer, it should be updated to newest sw. I think it`s 10.X ...?

As said, the Grundig PUC should be mapped to TV mode, and you will find the Grundig buttons and not the analog TV ones. Seems, your Beo6 wasn`t programmed properly....

Sigmund:

Your answer indicates that my DTV display button does not work as it should, which is encouraging for my further investigation.

==> Or try another mode: for example V.MEM or DVD.

All other modes work directly, without need of the centre button: TV, DVD, V.MEM, RADIO, CD, A.TAPE, A.AUX, PC. It is only the DTV button that needs the additional centre button. DTV is also the only PUC-driven command.

==> Press the BACK button a bit longer. Now you should have EXIT function.

Pressing BACK longer definitely had an effect, but not always the desired one. I will have to do some systematic investigation on this.

That indicates that your system is working but it is not correctly programmed. If the Grundig PUC is vers. 1.XX, your BV7-40 and your Beo6 should should be set to NO NAVIGATION BUTTON. If the PUC is vers. 2.XX the PUC already contains the new functions of the navigation buttons and should be set to ON.

Sigmund:

==> What are you pressing on the original remote?

By original remote you mean Grundig's, right? To select a menu I press OK. The BACK button takes me back up one level in the menu hierarchy.

In order to pause I press the button with the pause symbol (double bars). The play button (triangle) resumes the viewing. After a pause in a normal TV emission there is a time lag due to the pause. When I want to skip the pause and return to real time watching there is a Live TV button. (The remote for an earlier Grundig STB had no Live TV button and used the play button while in play mode to accomplish the same.)

I tried the arrows on the Beo6 for some wind and rewind functions, but found no effect. At this point I don't think it is possible to get something out of it, due to the dysfunctionality of the basic functions and the slowliness of everything - both B&O's boxes and Grundig's. I'll look at this later.

Sigmund

Usually you find the PVR functions - WIND - REWIND - PLAY ....on the touch screen. What "Grundig functions" do you have on the touch screen? Ask your dealer to give you the drawing of the Grundig PUC mapping.

Sigmund:

How is it possible to map the buttons so badly and illogically? Why can't they just do the following mapping:

Beo6 centre -> Grundig OK
Beo6 BACK -> Grundig BACK
Beo6 STOP -> Grundig pause (double bars)
Beo6 PLAY -> Grundig play (triangle)

Sigmund

Usually it`s not illogical.

You have:

enter - center, GO (Beo4-5-6)

back - BACK, EXIT (Beo4-5-6)

up-down-left-right - UP-DOWN-LEFT-RIGHT (Beo4-5-6)

green-yellow-red-blue - GREEN-RED-YELLOW-BLUE (Beo4-5-6)

pause - STOP (Beo4-5-6)

stop - STOP-STOP (Beo4) touchscreen (Beo5-6)

wind-rewind - GO-LEFT/RIGHT (Beo4), touchscreen (Beo5-6)

Buttons like "Info", "Guide", "Menu", "Audio", "Text", "Power".... are mapped to GO-0....9 and MENU 0....9 (Beo4) or touchscreen (Beo5-6)

Hope this helps

Stefan

===> I guess you switch your BV7-40 to NO NAVIGATION BUTTON, right?

Right. Hoping now for config tools.

===> Why don`t you use the TV mode, as it is already disabled and can be used for external devices?

Because TV mode only contains the typical analog TV commands, like Sound, AV..., Text, Clock, etc. The DTV commands are missing, like EPG, selecting channel by logo, and so on. And like DTV, TV can't resume from a pause.

But if somehow it could be possible to let TV trigger the same set of menu commands as DTV, that would be insanely great: when I want to see TV, the TV button is the natural choice!

===> Press MENU (BV7 menu), scroll to CONNECTIONS (tilslutninger) and press RED - GO (center). Now the customer service menu should be displayed.

RED - GO on CONNECTIONS behaves the same as just GO. I get into the list of all connections (AV1, AV2, etc.). There is no mention of any DTV within here. The 8860 STB is set up as source for TV. I see no SW version, but the TV is brand new from the retailer.

===> What "Grundig functions" do you have on the touch screen?

POWER - No reaction. What is this supposed to do?

OPPT.LISTE (Norwegian for list of recordings) - Works. 

REC - Starts immediate recording. Works, but not very useful. Don't know how to stop recording.

INFO - Works. Don't know how to remove the info afterwards.

VOD - Works, but I don't subscribe to it.

RADIO - Works.

EPG - Works.

TEXT - Works with the old analog-style teletext. I only use the new digital style.

MENU - Works.

Channels... - Works. By channels by logo instead of numbers this is actually better than Grundig's own.

===> Ask your dealer to give you the drawing of the Grundig PUC mapping.

I will, just didn't know that something like that was available.

===> enter - center, GO (Beo4-5-6)

Doesn't work.

===> back - BACK, EXIT (Beo4-5-6)

EXIT, in the form of pressing BACK a long time works. I don't understand why a single press on the BACK button can't do the job.

===> up-down-left-right - UP-DOWN-LEFT-RIGHT (Beo4-5-6)

OK

===> green-yellow-red-blue - GREEN-RED-YELLOW-BLUE (Beo4-5-6)

OK

===> pause - STOP (Beo4-5-6)

OK, but no way to resume afterwards. That's what i miss most.

===> stop - STOP-STOP (Beo4) touchscreen (Beo5-6)

Pause and stop are normally the same. Nothing on touchscreen.

===> wind-rewind - GO-LEFT/RIGHT (Beo4), touchscreen (Beo5-6)

No way.

===> Buttons like "Info", "Guide", "Menu", "Audio", "Text", "Power".... are mapped to GO-0....9 and MENU 0....9 (Beo4) or touchscreen (Beo5-6)

Some of them, yes.

Thank you, Stefan, for all your help and time you have spent on this. I really understand a lot more now, which enable me to ask more presice questions when I take the Beo6 to the retailer tomorrow so he can adjust the programming.

Sigmund

===> Why don`t you use the TV mode, as it is already disabled and can be used for external devices?

Because TV mode only contains the typical analog TV commands, like Sound, AV..., Text, Clock, etc. The DTV commands are missing, like EPG, selecting channel by logo, and so on. And like DTV, TV can't resume from a pause.

But if somehow it could be possible to let TV trigger the same set of menu commands as DTV, that would be insanely great: when I want to see TV, the TV button is the natural choice!

 ---------------------------------------

If your Beo6 will be set up for your Grundig stb correctly it will work. I`m controlling a Dreambox in TV mode on my BV7-40.

----------------------------------------

===> Press MENU (BV7 menu), scroll to CONNECTIONS (tilslutninger) and press RED - GO (center). Now the customer service menu should be displayed.

RED - GO on CONNECTIONS behaves the same as just GO. I get into the list of all connections (AV1, AV2, etc.). There is no mention of any DTV within here. The 8860 STB is set up as source for TV. I see no SW version, but the TV is brand new from the retailer.

---------------------------------------

Sorry, my mistake. It`s OPTIONS , not CONNECTIONS. Scroll to OPTIONS and press RED - GO.

---------------------------------------

===> What "Grundig functions" do you have on the touch screen?

POWER - No reaction. What is this supposed to do?

--------------------------------------

It powers up/down your Grundig stb, just like the power button on the original remote.

-------------------------------------

Good luck tomorrow...

Stefan

Here are the results after the meeting with the dealer:

1. Failing startup with DTV screen button, no dekoder commands with TV button.

The BV7 was set up to obey the TV command, not the DTV. This happened during installation when I asked the analog TV tuner to be disabled. But a different person programmed the Beo6. As a result, BV7 used TV, not DTV and Beo6 used DTV, not TV. Now they both agree upon 'TV', which makes sense since there is no analog TV in Norway anymore. The DTV button is gone.

2. Strange or missing navigation using the STB via PUC.

Further investigation is needed, but the next several days I have very little time for TV watching. The dealer is going to set up the same installation to help find out exactly how navigation is supposed to be and what doesn't work. I'll be back on this.

3. Grundig PUC version.

It is 2.xx (as far as I remember 2.00a). Beo6 was correctly set up to navigation button.

4. Grundig PUC mapping.

Doesn't exist for Beo6, only Beo4.

5. Customer service menu.

I found it! Could not find anything about 'DTV' and 'internal module', but that is probably not very important now. The long list of software versions has on top:

BUILD 816

H8 SW 10.03a

...

I will return to the topic of navigation when it's investigated. Your input here is most valuable, Stefan. I'll use it as a check list.

Sigmund

"The BV7 was set up to obey the TV command, not the DTV. This happened during installation when I asked the analog TV tuner to be disabled. But a different person programmed the Beo6. As a result, BV7 used TV, not DTV and Beo6 used DTV, not TV. Now they both agree upon 'TV', which makes sense since there is no analog TV in Norway anymore. The DTV button is gone."

--------------------------

"2. Strange or missing navigation using the STB via PUC."

Doesn't exist for Beo6, only Beo4."

That`s right. But commands on Beo4 and Beo6 are the same, on Beo4 you press for example MENU / GO  - 3 to get the stb MENU, on Beo6 it`s a CNTL-3 command with the same IR command.

-----------------------

"5. Customer service menu.

I found it! Could not find anything about 'DTV' and 'internal module', but that is probably not very important now. "

Sorry again. It`s in the BV7 MENU: OPTIONS - TUNER OPSÆTNING - TV TUNER (TIL/FRA) - DVB (TIL/FRA).

----------------------

"I will return to the topic of navigation when it's investigated."

Yes, I hope so....

---------------------

"Your input here is most valuable, Stefan. I'll use it as a check list."

You`re welcome.

Stefan

The only remaining problem out of the basic functions is to achieve what the STB calls Live TV: to skip the delay that was caused by pausing the program. Is there any way that can be done PUC-wise?

The other mappings are:

To pause – STOP

To resume after pause – double-click on PLAY (Why not just single-click like DVD?)

Live TV, to skip the delay caused by the pause – (No idea)

To select something in an STB-menu, to say OK – PLAY (Why not center button like DVD?)

To move back up the menu hierarchy – press BACK a long time (Why not just click?)

Anybody (Stefan) know how to do Grundig Live TV via PUC? The other solutions are really weird, but at least they work. I haven't looked at issues like rewind and fast forward yet. 

Sigmund

Seems there is still something wrong with your Beo6 programming:

"To resume after pause – double-click on PLAY (Why not just single-click like DVD?)"

Should be just the PLAY button. Double-click GO (PLAY) was used with the old Beo4. It has no center (SELECT) button, just a GO button, so GO is SELECT and GO - GO is PLAY.

"Live TV, to skip the delay caused by the pause – (No idea)"

Did you try STOP - STOP ? Double click on STOP? This is usually the mapping, when STOP (single click) is Pause...(?)

"To select something in an STB-menu, to say OK – PLAY (Why not center button like DVD?)"

Should be definately be the center button (SELECT). As said before, GO (PLAY) was used with the older Beo4.

"..... I haven't looked at issues like rewind and fast forward yet. "

Did you try: GO  (PLAY) and LEFT/RIGHT ?

Do you have the (Grundig) PUC mapping for Beo4 now and can you post it here?

Stefan