Been playing recently, and have come to the conclusion that most audiophile speak is rubbish. I can tell speakers apart. Beyond that, assuming that the product is being used as intended at a suitable volume, there is really not much in it. CD players all sound the same - any difference is distortion or possibly matching issues. Record players do differ but are less accurate than CD players , given the same material. Amplifiers are identical until they clip - therefore as long as there is enough power, which need not be much, you are fine. I will not even discuss cables.

Such a revelation leads me to the following thoughts.

1. Spend your money on speakers - great big ones!

2. Spend anything you have left on your music - get decent recordings - that makes more difference than anything else apart from 1!

3. All the rest is frippery. As long as you recognise it as such it is perfectly acceptable!

If you disagree, do an A/B/X trial. That means listening to two systems which you can do for as long as you like knowing which is which. Then get a friend to play one of them again. You can compare this to A or B as you like. If you can reliably tell the difference, then there is one. If you can't... (Clearly flat set controls , same volume etc)

Try it with amplifiers!

I agree partially : the speaker is the most important element. The amplifier itself makes no great difference... But The DAC in it makes a HUGE difference between systems.

As long as your signal is digital, high quality is obtained at no cost. But when analog signal is there, the difference is huge.

Solution : buy Beolab 5. Then connect anything digital to it ;-)

Hoorayyy!!!!!! Vindication for Joeyboy.

How many times have I been castigated for daring to say that I can't tell the difference between the various B&O CD players or amplifiers.

Judging by the tone settings on some of the second user items that I buy, I would be surprised if many users knew what audiophile sound was anyway!!(Max treble boost combined with max bass boost and loudness on, seems to be the norm)

I agree completely Peter, hence my purchase of MS150s!!

I have to say I've been saying this for the last 30 years or so, but certainly age ( I like Peter & Graham am 50 ish) cements the viewpoint as one's hearing deteriorates.

Cheers

Nigel

Peter :

Been playing recently, and have come to the conclusion that most audiophile speak is rubbish.

I am glad that there are still people with some common sense around! I agree very strongly with the three points you make.

Concerning CD players and DACs: mbee says the DAC makes a lot of difference. I unfortunately don't own a CD player but experienced an incredible improvement in sound when I changed from my integrated motherboard soundcard to a professional musicians card (M-audio). What about a statement like: there are rubbish DACs (distortion) and good quality DACs (good sound), but when comparing good DACs the difference is minimal?

Well, I am definitely on board. The recording is the absolute core of the listening experience right along with the loudspeaker.

Except for amplifiers. So in terms of this thread, are we talking about just B&O amps or all amps?

All amplifiers - if you find one that adds character, it is a bad amplifier!!! You may like it, but an amplifier is designed to add gain without changing the signal.

On this basis, I eventually plan to get Beolab 5s and a simple digital source.

I'm pretty much full on with Peter here.  

The big problems in audio have to do with transducers, particularly the ones which convert air to electricity or vice-versa.  Really big losses occur during such conversions.  

For the rest of the audio chain, it is all pretty robust and stable in my production experience.  Because DACs are, in fact, transducers, they do exhibit some losses, but to my ears it is minor and can be easily rectified by (a) relly good clocks and really accurate quantification, and (b) by robust error detction and correction.  

Don't obsess!  Just pour yourself another ________ [recreational drug of of choice] and Enjoy!   (Especially if you have BeoLab 5s, he said.)

Thanks for listening!  

Dave

I'd like to add, that if you want the best audio quality, avoid turntables and passive speakers. LPs are really crap audio wise (smashed stereo image, signal to noise ratio, static, booming etc.), avoid tube amps which is in the same realm of hyperdistortion, and last but most important for the most of us, do not choose passive speakers or  "powered" (i.e. they have a passive crosssover but have an inbuilt amplifier). Choose some well built actives.

As for size, well it depends what you want to use them for. Big passive threeways usually gives you "boom". although small passives can do that too ("boom" is not bass, it's a booming speaker, and you have probably heard a few of those).

I use small speakers for my near field monitoring. They're active, and if I recall correctly, Dave M. uses small speakers as well.

For more bottom level, yes it might be an idea to invest in a sub, but I don't need a sub for my near field monitoring needs.

That makes sense Peter.

I have noticed some differences between a couple of my amps, tested using the same speakers. The one that sticks out just slightly is my BeoMaster 3000-2. My only amp remotely close to professional or audiophile grade is my Niles SI-275. It follows your theory pretty well.