Hi all,

Please hang in there -this will be long and rambling, but I have found myself in a rather uncomfortable position and I need some sage advice! After nearly 15 years on eBay -something like this was bound to happen.

A few months ago, I won an auction for a BG from overseas. I paid what I would consider top dollar for what appeared to be a nice unit from a new seller to eBay -on for about four months. Though not a B&o person they had sold and received good feedback for other high end gear.

After about three weeks of silence, a response was received regarding an inquiry I had made about the status of shipping. The seller had fallen ill, and was apologetic stating they would get the BG off to me ASAP. Another week went by and nothing. Then I received a response that they had shipped it, but the courier had returned the shipment because the box was too big?!?!? Another week and I started to get concerned. I sent off another request that went unanswered that coordinated with my ability to start a case.

At this point, I noticed a precipitous drop in their feedback rating -things started looking really sketchy. Then, all of a sudden the seller set their feedback to private! So be it, I opened a case -and viola! the seller sent off tracking within the hour in addition to some rather unpleasant ramblings questioning my integrity. I left the case open for several reasons, primarily because of the long delay in getting the BG out the door, I felt as though I would not have time to leave fair, impartial feedback -one of the few powers I felt I had in the situation. The dialog continued in the case with the seller adding that besides the illness and the box fiasco, that they had been snow-bound and couldn't get out to deliver the package for shipping, again adding some not-so-niceties about me and my intentions for opening the case.

After about three more weeks with the tracking frozen at the origin scan, I was contacted by eBay that I either had to A.) Close the case -or- B.) Escalate the case. Constantly checking the tracking and then being told by the seller that I did not understand how tracking worked... and now in full realization that even if the BG should arrive -there was no guarantee that it was as described, was packed well, or even if it worked - I escalated the case.

Not sure what to expect -all I wanted was my BG after nine weeks of running around... I was surprised to discover that escalating the case actually pushes eBay into some sort of resolution mode (having never been in these waters before, I had no idea). I then received a nasty response from the seller that they were oblivious to whatever decision eBay would hand down and that if they lost and their (my) money was pulled that they would demand it back (sounds like they have been here before in their short eBay career).

Well, very quickly -eBay handed down a decision in my favor and before I realized what was going on -the money had already been transferred to my account! Now the morality of the situation started gnawing on me. What if the BG actually does make it to me? What if it is packed in gold and perfect? What if all the run-around was legit? I kept checking the tracking and nothing... then one day -a package arrived and my jaw dropped. Inside was a fairly poorly packed, ok to good condition BG with no setup for transportation. Remarkably, however it did seem to survive realtively intact but with the controls popping out and damaging the top. I have tested it and it does play.

I have since received an email from the seller that the BG did arrive and that they were contacting their attorney and the police and that they are going to get their money back.

Having received nothing but grief during this entire transaction, I was never anything but formal, polite, and to the point. All I wanted was the BG and the opportunity to leave honest feedback. Now I am stuck with a BG that has lost any sparkle that it may have had otherwise. I am left with a really bad taste in my mouth and now, to the point of this long ramble -I am not sure what to do!?!?!

I feel guilty that I have the BG and now the money. I want to be fair to the seller and would like to close this most unpleasant chapter. Should I...

1.) Send the BG back (at my cost).

2.) Send the seller the full amount originally paid including shipping.

3.) Offer a settlement (lower amount) and keep the BG.

4.) Do nothing.

Thanks all for listening, I feel at least some guilt lifting as I await your responses. It really has taken a toll on me (I haven't posted much lately on BeoWorld ). I just want to do the right thing.

Jaff, don't beat yourself up about it. At least you are in control now!

If you aren't happy with the BG offer to send it back if he forwards the shipping cost. His choice. Don't let it cost you anything.

If you intend to keep it then send him the money and move on.

Just out of interest which country was the seller in?

Sorry to hear your troubles. Why people act like this is beyond me!

Anyway, you cannot consider option 4 as then you effectivly become no better than him. Have you got all corrispondance?

I would send him a polite email explaining he can either pay for return of the Beogram, or accept a lower amount that you feel is reasonable when considering the current condition of the table, as compared to his description, and the hastle you went through getting this deck. I do not think you owe it to him to send the thing back at your expense, however you might be required to pay the full sum in the eyes of the law, if not prepared to return it so I don't really know! I always advise people to go to the ebay community forums with stuff like this there is good advice their!

Also while I have not ever left negative feedback, even with some less than ideal transactions, if I ever felt angry enough to do so I would go to the trouble of simply putting 'read here...' then an address leading to a full page of explanation so you can give a proper account and refute any poor response the ebayer gives you!!!

First off Jaff, I would have done exactly the same in your situation. If you hadn't acted within a given time frame you would have risked losing everything.

The seller is wholly to blame for this situation IMO. Threats of the police & an attourney are absolutely ludicrous and don't hold water with Paypal who are NOT regulated by any financial institutions/authorities.

Personally I would keep the lot & tell the seller they must now appeal the original decision by paypal to retrieve any funds. If you start sending them money back they could still appeal & leave you out of pocket on the deal.

When everything is finalised it is up to you what you do - depending on the outcome of course.

Judging by the sellers reactions I wouldn't feel in the slightest bit morally compromised.

Chris.

Dear Jeff, I also had an unpleasant situation recently by paying a seller, receiving the item BUT also the seller opened an unpaid item claim which resulted in an eBay warning!!!!!! Of course after certain emails toeBay it was cleared but still that left me very unhappy. I'm afraid that these situations are not as good, however since you are located in US, I would suggest that you talk over to an eBay representative and in parallel send the above mentioned description to eBay along to your lawyer as well, in order to protect your self. These guys obviously are professionals on what they do so ...............be very careful. Another issue is that in case you send it back, you might get accused of bad condition!!

Hi Jaff,

I sympathise, particularly as I'm going through something similar myself (like you, for the first time - it had to happen sooner or later).

However, I'd say the moral argument is that your won an auction and agreed to pay a price for the item as described.

As you have (originally) paid and the seller has (finally) sent the item then he, the seller, has met their part of the contract and should be recompensed as agreed.

If the goods do not meet the description, and communication was bad, then leave feedback accordingly to warn future buyers. 

Putting it another way, if communication had been good and the item had arrived promptly then your only issue would be the condition/packaging, which is a different eBay path.

The very fact you took the time to write your message shows your own ethics - somehow I don't think you'd resort to Option 4). - but whatever you do make sure it's via eBay.

All the best,

Rob

Jeff it would be very interesting to send us a link of the auction.

If you want it public send it over here otherwise please send me an email.

I really want to be careful these days from such eBay sellers.

Jaff, I think you have done everyting by the book. If I were in you position I would have done exactly the same. Don't take any notice of the sellers threats. It was PayPal's decision to return to money, not yours! IMO thye best thing to do would be to let the seller go through PayPal and see what they decide. With the damaged condition anyway, they will more than likely find in your favour.

 

Craig

Thanks to all for listening and advising. It really means a lot.

To avoid infracting "(non-libellous comments only!)" as mandated in the heading of this sub forum, I will try to dance through the tulips. Heck, the seller could be a member here!

The country of origin was Germany.

The listing is quite old now and has expired. I never had the chance to leave feedback as the BG arrived AFTER the cutoff.

Also, I failed to mention a very important point. The listing included a cartridge (we all know to hold our breath) that was NOT included in the shipment.

I find myself closest to Olly's viewpoint and I have offered the seller (via eBay communication channels):

1.) Return of the BG (properly packed) at their cost.

-or-

2.) A VERY GENEROUS settlement amount considering the damage and the missing cartridge.

I think the latter sounds fair!  Thats whats important what is deemed fair, you seem a reasonable guy. I am sure you will be fair! Good luck 

I would send it back COD so that they have to pay the shipping to collect it. It seems you've been given the run-around, and then finally received an inferior item.

If you keep it, you'll hate the sight of it...

Send it back COD or on your own dime if you feel obligated, maybe a settlement would have been ok but they didnt include the cartrigde as promised or implied in the original sales listing. That alone would disquaify the transaction had it been made with me.

Get rid of the thing.

I have only had one problem with a seller on eBay the unit was decrided as near mint and in excellent working order. Its wasnt remotely close to mint and didnt work. (They blamed it on Fed-Ex).

You might consider re-selling it on eBay and sending the proceeds to the person who sold it to you.  Minus X amount for your time & trouble to sell it.

Hi there,

From my experience. I know that shipping from US and Canada to Europe is quite expensive. I remeber I sold a B&W PV1 subwoofer and a pair of beolab 2500 in Germany and Italy and the shipping cost was like 100$ ( cheaper one).

It took almost 6 weeks to reach the destination and the buyers just took the chance to wait such a long time by not openning any case on EBay.

In your case, I suppose the seller took the chance to send it via boat , so that explain the shipping time. In this case, you have to take the high road and pay what was supposed to pay. After that, then take some pictures and contact the seller and explain to him that the description differ from the one you aggred the moment of the sale. take always the high road and that is the solution!!!

You should aggre on a new price with the seller! Just stick on option 3!!!!!

Option 4 should never be a choice for you. Just put it in the shoes of the other one!!!

 

PS.   Do not forget one thing!! Selling overseas sometimes is a bad decision. I suppose in Europe is not a problem but from or in  US and Canada, yes  it is.   At the border they sometimes open the package and the product. I saw an B&O Avant opened at the border and you do not want to know how they open it. Also, I sent an amplifier in US and they opened the amplifier to see what was inside. They just cut all cables and it was a mess.  Maybe the seller sent you the product and it was oppened at the US border by paranoid people. That may explain a lot....