Hi all,

 

-I just wondering if anyone have any experience, or knowldege about playing SACD (multi-channel 5.1) using their Beovision. I am thinking of buying an Oppo multiplayer BDP93 which according to their spec will pass DSD over HDMI. From what I understand DSD needs HDMI 1.2. Is that enough then, just connecting the Oppo to BV8-40 using HDMI?

I have a BV8-40 and BL3 as frontspeakers and is going to get a second pair of BL3 as rear speakers alongside a BL11.

 

Best regards/Jonas

The BV8 (and other BV) are not capable to decode DSD. 

 

But the Oppo is capable to decode DSD to multichannel LPCM and output this through HDMI. 

I listen to SACD & DVDA on a BS3/BV4 with a Oppo BDP83 and on a BV7-40 mkIV with a Oppo DV981 using this method.

 

I can recommand the Oppo's

Thanks for the swift reply!

-I really look forward to listening on SACD using my Beo setup. 

 

-What is you opinion about the quality, or perceived listening experience of the SACD, -does it sort of add another dimension to the sound, or just improves it? (My dealer has not yet been able to demonstrate any SACD on any Beo setup, so I simply don't have had any real listening experience using Beo for SACD)

 

Best regards/Jonas

The advantage of SACD is that it uses PWM, instead of PCM (the two different kinds of audio). PWM has it's advantages and disadvantages, as does PCM. PWM is considered to be sonically preferable by many.

By passing your SACD signal into your BeoVision 8, you will be converting the signal into PCM, thus effectively giving you the disadvantages of both PCM and PWM, with neither of their shared advantages.

That's the theory anyway. It'll still sound great, but you won't have much of the organic, free-of-brittleness and spacious soundstage associated with SACD. It'll probably sound almost identical to a DVD-A disc...

Alex:

That's the theory anyway. It'll still sound great, but you won't have much of the organic, free-of-brittleness and spacious soundstage associated with SACD. It'll probably sound almost identical to a DVD-A disc...

You make it sound like per definition SACD is superior to DVDA.

I disagree..........

I have SACD and DVDA of the same albums. Sometime the SACD sounds better sometimes the DVDA. 

 

I do not know the term PWM. Can you explain 

Carolpa:

Alex:

That's the theory anyway. It'll still sound great, but you won't have much of the organic, free-of-brittleness and spacious soundstage associated with SACD. It'll probably sound almost identical to a DVD-A disc...

You make it sound like per definition SACD is superior to DVDA.

I disagree..........

I have SACD and DVDA of the same albums. Sometime the SACD sounds better sometimes the DVDA. 

This depends on the master which has been put onto the disk. In terms of actual transmission of sound, SACD can sound much better than DVD-A. It just depends on whether the formats receive the same mix from the mastering studio.

There are two kinds of digital - Pulse Code Modulation, and Pulse Width Modulation. 99% of digital sources are based on PCM digital - that is, steps of 'up' and 'down'.

Pulse Code Modulation (PCM) looks like this:

 

Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) looks like this:

 

There are other variations of both of these formats, but these are the two main types to worry about.

 

CD, DVD, MP3, WAV, AIFF, Apple Lossless, WMA, digital audio with TV, Blu-Ray audio etc... are all based on Pulse Code Modulation (although some of these formats use lossy compression to compact the data).

SACD is Pulse Width Modulation, and it can sound incredible. The problem is that most of the time, the original signal came from a recording platform which would've been based on Pulse Code Modulation, sort of making SACD a little pointless in many ways. Shame as it's a great format, there just isn't the technical infrastructure in the recording industry to work with PWM.

Hi Alex

PWC how you describe it is called DSD (direct stream digital), see Wiki!

There are lots of papers about the differences. In the end the conclusion that it is hardly to not possible to differentiate between the different formats.

jonasrosen:

-What is you opinion about the quality, or perceived listening experience of the SACD, -does it sort of add another dimension to the sound, or just improves it? (My dealer has not yet been able to demonstrate any SACD on any Beo setup, so I simply don't have had any real listening experience using Beo for SACD)

 

Best regards/Jonas

there is a improved quality and so your experience will be accordantly! 

Multichannel for sure can and will be an extra dimension (but not always; this is depending on the mix)

Carolpa:

Hi Alex

PWC how you describe it is called DSD (direct stream digital), see Wiki!

There are lots of papers about the differences. In the end the conclusion that it is hardly to not possible to differentiate between the different formats.

Hi Carolpa

 

DSD is the trademark Sony and Phillips use to describe the technology they use. Really, it's a variant of Pulse Width Modulation...

When comparing super high-res (128kHz and above) PCM audio, there is very little if any difference at all in terms of playback. However, most recordings are made at 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz or 96kHz from start to finish during the recording process, which can ultimately restrict the playback quality.

However, bear in mind there is more going on in sound than just simple straight-forward 'this one sounds better' comparisons. Try listening to OGG vorbis for 4 hours, then MP3 at the same bitrate for 4 hours, and see which one wears your ears more - you'll be surprised!

There's a brittleness inherent in pretty much all but the best PCM-based digital sources/processors, and it's something I haven't heard in SACD...

jonasrosen:

Hi all,

 

-I just wondering if anyone have any experience, or knowldege about playing SACD (multi-channel 5.1) using their Beovision. I am thinking of buying an Oppo multiplayer BDP93 which according to their spec will pass DSD over HDMI. From what I understand DSD needs HDMI 1.2. Is that enough then, just connecting the Oppo to BV8-40 using HDMI?

I have a BV8-40 and BL3 as frontspeakers and is going to get a second pair of BL3 as rear speakers alongside a BL11.

 

Best regards/Jonas

If you can find an early-model PS3 second-hand, some PS3 models can decode SACD internally and send the sound to your B&O processor/tv via HDMI 1.1.

A little bit off topic, but as we speak about SACD...

I have only one SACD at home... This is not sufficient to invest in a SACD player... So, I would like to know if anyone knows a software that could rip this SACD to a hi def audio file (such as FLAC) in order to try it... Or is the SACD totally copy-protected ?

to my knowledge there is no sw available (legal & illegal) to rip SACD's (= the high resolution layer). The biggest problem is the recognition of the SACD. If you place a hybrid SACD in a DVD drive it only sees the CD-layer. A single layer SACD is not recognized at all.

 

beojeff:

jonasrosen:

Hi all,

 

-I just wondering if anyone have any experience, or knowldege about playing SACD (multi-channel 5.1) using their Beovision. I am thinking of buying an Oppo multiplayer BDP93 which according to their spec will pass DSD over HDMI. From what I understand DSD needs HDMI 1.2. Is that enough then, just connecting the Oppo to BV8-40 using HDMI?

I have a BV8-40 and BL3 as frontspeakers and is going to get a second pair of BL3 as rear speakers alongside a BL11.

 

Best regards/Jonas

If you can find an early-model PS3 second-hand, some PS3 models can decode SACD internally and send the sound to your B&O processor/tv via HDMI 1.1.

 

At first I was tempted to buy an early-model PS3 secondhand, but as of now I think the Oppo BDP93 is a better choice due to all the other features. Now my concern is about if the LPCM 24bit/88kHz will make any wonders to my listening experience using BL3, BL11 and BV8-40 as center.

 

Thanks for the tip anyway!

jonasrosen:

beojeff:

jonasrosen:

Hi all,

 

-I just wondering if anyone have any experience, or knowldege about playing SACD (multi-channel 5.1) using their Beovision. I am thinking of buying an Oppo multiplayer BDP93 which according to their spec will pass DSD over HDMI. From what I understand DSD needs HDMI 1.2. Is that enough then, just connecting the Oppo to BV8-40 using HDMI?

I have a BV8-40 and BL3 as frontspeakers and is going to get a second pair of BL3 as rear speakers alongside a BL11.

 

Best regards/Jonas

If you can find an early-model PS3 second-hand, some PS3 models can decode SACD internally and send the sound to your B&O processor/tv via HDMI 1.1.

 

 

At first I was tempted to buy an early-model PS3 secondhand, but as of now I think the Oppo BDP93 is a better choice due to all the other features. Now my concern is about if the LPCM 24bit/88kHz will make any wonders to my listening experience using BL3, BL11 and BV8-40 as center.

 

Thanks for the tip anyway!

There have been blind tests that demonstrate that it's questionable whether people can tell the difference. I personally find the sound of SACD to be warmer and more detailed. The SACD track that I like to play for guests is the acoustic version of "Candle in the Wind" on Elton John's album "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition)."

beojeff:

jonasrosen:

beojeff:

jonasrosen:

Hi all,

 

-I just wondering if anyone have any experience, or knowldege about playing SACD (multi-channel 5.1) using their Beovision. I am thinking of buying an Oppo multiplayer BDP93 which according to their spec will pass DSD over HDMI. From what I understand DSD needs HDMI 1.2. Is that enough then, just connecting the Oppo to BV8-40 using HDMI?

I have a BV8-40 and BL3 as frontspeakers and is going to get a second pair of BL3 as rear speakers alongside a BL11.

 

Best regards/Jonas

If you can find an early-model PS3 second-hand, some PS3 models can decode SACD internally and send the sound to your B&O processor/tv via HDMI 1.1.

 

 

At first I was tempted to buy an early-model PS3 secondhand, but as of now I think the Oppo BDP93 is a better choice due to all the other features. Now my concern is about if the LPCM 24bit/88kHz will make any wonders to my listening experience using BL3, BL11 and BV8-40 as center.

 

Thanks for the tip anyway!

There have been blind tests that demonstrate that it's questionable whether people can tell the difference. I personally find the sound of SACD to be warmer and more detailed. The SACD track that I like to play for guests is the acoustic version of "Candle in the Wind" on Elton John's album "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (30th Anniversary Deluxe Edition)."

 

That sounds interesting, the more details must be in favour when i turn on my opera collection ;-)

So why isn't SACD widely embraced by the B&O's of the world? This is the oddity of digital- more people listening and having access to music, having the technology for superior sound, yet the convenience creates a demand that the quality doesn't.

I am an SACD fan - partly because it is higher res than RBCD and theoretically offers better sound, and mostly because it is discrete multichannel music, which does a much better job re realism and 'being there' than 2 channel on classical music in my experience.

As always there are compromises; many SACD's have been mastered on PCM and then converted to DSD - it is very subtle, but I tend to find those recordings originally mastered in DSD to sound the best.  I'd agree the differences between SACD and RBCD are subtle/small generally speaking, and I'm not sure that I'd pick the difference in a blind ABX test.  However, multi-channel discrete audio is another matter, and if you want that, and I do, then SACD is the way to go.  Despite being arguably a lacklustre success commercially, companies such as Pentatone are still recording classical music in M/C SACD and there are over 3,500 titles available worldwide.

Sony still supports SACD - ALL their current Bluray players will output native DSD over HDMI, or convert it internally to LPCM and output that over HDMI, which means any competent multi channel amp such as Yamaha etc will play it.  Sony's current top ES receivers also support native DSD conversion.  So it is not 'dead' yet, and there are rumours about a high res music disk that may come, based upon Bluray technology.  Time will tell.

With SACD, ideally one would have a DSD playback system from disk to amplifier output for the highest possible quality results - which is what I have with an ES Sony player, coupling adaptive data rate transfer via firewire to an fully digital amp (Class D like B&O ICE power, but the pulse wave for the output transistors is generated from an DSD bitstream, not an analogue sine wave - hence it is fully digital like the similar Lyngdorf/Tact) and indeed these items are Sony flagship ES products, specifically designed for multi-channel SACD.

Nonetheless, to couple say a current Sony Bluray player outputting converted DSD to LPCM in the player, over HDMI to a B&O 8-40 and thence to ones active speakers would be a very worthwhile exercise in my view.  There may be a slight loss of quality, but the benefits of multi-channel, discrete surround sound music would more than make up for it in my view, and again whether one could tell the slight loss of quality by the conversion from DSD to LPCM in a blind ABX test is debatable.

I am a B&O fan and hopefully a much bigger owner to be with Lab 5's on my agenda, and M/C SACD is a must for me, so I would certainly endorse and recommend any attempt to replay the medium over B&O equipment.

HTH

Best Regards

 

John...