John

Please send your email address to me at   yachadm AT gmail DOT com

I will send you a bunch of clear hi-res pictures showing the connector positions on the PCB, so you can see if that's the problem.

Menahem

jfrancis:

I have checked the position of all the plugs against the board's printed color indicators for the wires, and how the plughs should be inserted into the boards. The table was non-working when I got it and I did not notice how the plugs were inserted before I did the capacitor replacement. If the plugs were inserted incorrectly could this have done damage to other components on the board and yet the table partly function as I have described? Regarding Martin's point about the power, I am not sure what else to check in regard to the voltage supply to the board.

I do appreciate all the responses that I have received to this problem and will check out Menahem's suggestion of maybe having an issue with the step sensor after I eliminate the issues regarding the detector arm and if possible get answers from any of yet regarding this post.

Thanks,

John

Only reason I mentioned the plug was that looking at the diagram it is common to both the faulty issues (sensor lamp and shutter lamp) you are describing!

Only other thing I can think of is if the power transistor (IC1) is passing enough current to light the bulb but not anything else when off. But then the speed indicator lamp should still be lit (is this the same rating as the shutter lamp?) and I am sure you would see other signs of life....

Have you checked that all connectors are correctly seated ?
In some versions, the plugs that connect to the mainboard can easily go on offset one pin unnoticed.
Also check for cracked solder joints at the connectors on the mainboard.

Martin

I think that is the most likely issue Martin. One pin out could mean the lamp is hooked to the supply side of the regulator transistor, and there would be no supply for the sensor arm.

Check these pics

And this - be careful of the parallax error on my camera - the number of wires matches the number of pins - I had to watch this also when I did the restoration on this.

Interesting, I assume this is not his...? What would a half rectified supply do for this deck then lol!

edit sorry I see what you are doing Menahem. Yes the parallex caught me out on the first shot!

Hello,

I do appreciate everyone's feedback and will check out all of your suggestions this weekend. I intend to check all the wires and look for bad solder connections. I did try to checkout the lamp in the sensor arm to see if it were bad by tuching the two wires of the lamp with the probes of a meter in the continuity setting. I hate to admit this but I don't know if the lamp needs to be disconnected to perform this test or not. The continuity test showed it was fine. Could someone tell me if this test can be done with the lamps soldered in position? Also regarding the board connectors being off by one position, can this harm the the board's components if that were done and then power applied to the table?

Regards,

John

jfrancis:

I did try to checkout the lamp in the sensor arm to see if it were bad by tuching the two wires of the lamp with the probes of a meter in the continuity setting. I hate to admit this but I don't know if the lamp needs to be disconnected to perform this test or not. The continuity test showed it was fine. Could someone tell me if this test can be done with the lamps soldered in position?

The bulb probably is fine then - which also means that it's not getting power, and that needs to be sorted.

jfrancis:

Also regarding the board connectors being off by one position, can this harm the the board's components if that were done and then power applied to the table?

It's possible, but don't worry about that yet since you can't help it any more. Just make sure that everything is correctly in place now and we'll work from there.

If it is possible that he has moved the plug one space in the direction I think, assuming all plug numbers are the same as my diagram, he might be VERY lucky! I have my fingers crossed for him....

Incredible! I resoldered all the capacitors and the plugs around the edge of the board and almost everything now works! I am so grateful to all of those who contributed to trouble shooting this, your a great bunch. And to Martin who was answering questions about capacitor identification by private email that helped clearify some of the questions I had regarding my installation.

The only thing not working now is the arm does not lower onto the record. I hear the solenoid click and the plunger in the magnetic coil moves but the pull arms are not moving to lower the tone arm. I wonder if this is a mechanical problem. The pull arm in front of the coil seems stiff after lubricating but I was afraid to remove the clip that hold it down so I could clean it. Is there anything else that might be causing the arms in front of the magnetic coil not to move?

John

Well congratulations and glad everything is now working properly :)

Regarding the lowering mechanism at the very least that lowering arm will have to be removed so the old lube can be cleaned off (use IPA). You will need to be careful removing the circlip as it is easily lost! I also remove and clean the damper then relube.

It is also time to download the service manual and setup the player to get the best performance from it!

Good luck :)

Hello Olly,

In my excitement about the table working to a great extent I was not accurate in describing which arm that is hooked to the magnetic coil is not moving, it is the one in the back of the coil not the front. It is the one hooked to the damper cylinder. I ahve removed the damper cylinder and cleaned and lubed it with sewing machine oil but that doesn't seem to be the cure. Is there anything else that would be an adjustment or might need oiling?

John

ok so you removed the damper, and the upper arm came off with it right? Did you clean the pivot point and collar on the arm, and have you put the small spring between lower and upper levers back properly?

Basically, solenoid operates lower lever against the main spring tension (large spring between sol and damper). This pulls on the small spring (left of solenoid) which pulls on the upper lever, atached via a pivot to the damper. Obviously the damper governs the speed at which this small spring is able to move the upper lever to it's new position.

No harm in operating the solenoid arm manually to see what is or isn't happening!

Are you sure that the arm at the front (the one held down by the spring clip) is free to move??

In all examples that I have seen of the symptoms you are describing, the fault has always been dried lubricant on the shaft under the spring clip. The other bearing services/shafts are generally a loose fit and do not bind excessively.

Beware.......the spring clip is easy to loose when dismantling and rebuilding.  It can ping into outer space!!

Hello Graham and Olly,

It turns out for whatever reason that the suction after I oiled the damper cylinder was too much for the spring to pull out the plunger from the cylinder, I had just put a little sewing machine oil on my finger to lubricate the inside of the cylinder when I oiled it. So I tried loosening the screw on the cylinder and it now works. So I tried to play a record after the needle droped, so good so far, but the tone arm now just stays in one place and plays the the same groove without advancing. I never thought about this before regarding what makes the mechanism move on a tangential tone arm so I am once again at a loss. I tried increasing the tracking force thinking maybe that was the problem but no. Good grief!

John

Ok, this is definitely now the sensor I referred to before - the drum with the metal belt around it.

Firstly, is the lamp working there? That lamp illuminates behind a metal slit, which moves laterally. When the metal slit lines up with the photo-transistor, the signal to operate the small motor occurs, and the arm advances. No lamp - no movement; or no slit alignment - no movement.

Menahem

Hi,

On my Beogram the arm was stuck at the main bearing of the lowering mechanism. See here:

http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/t/37107.aspx

It is a bit tricky but it could be your final problem!

Does the arm pop up swiftly when you press STOP or does it take some time? 

Make sure the carriage moves when you push the arm to the left by hand! (as a reference to Menahem's suggestion below).

Jacques,

That's definitely another possibility.

The key would be to check if the small motor is rotating in pulses - if NO rotation, the sensor is the problem; if there IS rotation, the bearing is the problem

Has the small motor got a rubber belt on the pulley and does the threaded rod turn easilly!!

Ah yes how silly!

ok so your new problem seems to be that the arm has siezed along the horizontal axis for some reason. I think jacques has it here!

I would remove the platter and the cartridge. Manually operate the solenoid to allow the arm to operate (of course it won't drop without the cartridge as there is no weight!) move the arm and you should notice there is absolutely no resistance. In fact you should be able to genly blow the arm out of place (although this might only be the case with cartridge and zero balance)! A couple drops of oil into the bearing should go some way to resolving this but you need to also swing the arm back and fourth a few times to get the lubricant into the bearing. If this doesn't work more drastic action might be required!

Now switch the unit on and allow the arm to move to the start and drop (although remember it won't actually drop without a cartridge!) - move the arm manually with a push from your finger to the left, as if advancing along the record - at this point the carriage assembly should move with your finger - I then move my finger to the other side of the cartridge arm (tone arm) and allow the arm to centre again, thus stopping the servo.

You could also then attach the cartridge check zero weight and test the vertical bearing. but one job at a time!

Step1:

Now switch the unit on and allow the arm to move to the start and drop (although remember it won't actually drop without a cartridge!) - move the arm manually with a push from your finger to the left, as if advancing along the record - at this point the carriage assembly should move with your finger - I then move my finger to the other side of the cartridge arm (tone arm) and allow the arm to centre again, thus stopping the servo.

A bad shutter setting shouldn't prevent the servo from functioning at all, unless the diaphragm rubs against the shutter lamp housing itself (not likely).  The arms just won't be parallel, and in the worst case, the carriage will move by very large steps which isn't right. 

Any news then?

Hello Jacques,

Sorry I have not been back to report, night out with the wife. Good and bad news. It utns out that I had tried to get the tone arm level with the detector arm by making the "Lowering adjustment" shown in the service manual. Apparently the tone arm was not advancing because the needle was just not setting down far enough in the groove. So now the tone arm sets down and plays. However when the arm reaches the end of the record it returns to start and I hear a click, the platter slows like it is going to stop but then continues to rotate and the 33rpm control light dims but doesn't go out and the detector arm and servo light under the tonearm continues to be lit. I manually have pushed the switch that is supposed to shut off everything at the stop position but it just powers up again. I don't think that this was happening earlier when the arm was not dropping this seems to be new. Someone in an earlier post asked about this as being a possible symptom when it wasn't happeing so I am wondering what the thinking was then.

Any thoughts?

John

Hello,

Just came back from plugging the turntable back in to the power which I had done to get the platter to stop turning and all the lights to completely turn off. After plugging it in again, the lights were all off. So I pushed play button and the arm went to the beginning of the record, dropped into the groove as it should and played advancing in the groove as it should. And when I hit stop it returns to the resting position and shuts everything off as it should, all lights and motors. I have done this 4-5 times in a row and it all works fine. I plan on letting the record play all the way through now once and let itself shut off then check and see if the problem repeats itself again with the platter continuing to rotate in the rest position and control ights partially lit, detector and servo lamps remaining on as before and will report back.

Seems like maybe an intermittent problem now which is probably the worst kind to figure out.

John

John