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Latest post 01-06-2011 3:18 PM by PhilLondon. 60 replies.
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  • 01-02-2011 9:58 AM In reply to

    • symmes
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    • Freedonia
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    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    The first DDD I bought was "Brothers in Arms". 25 years later I still envision it being recorded in a concrete bunker. There are so many variables, including my ears, that I just don't worry about it anymore. But I do not listen to that CD, though I think the content is wonderful.

  • 01-02-2011 1:57 PM In reply to

    • Stan
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    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    Dave:

    TripEnglish:

     

    But the BeoSound 5 is pretty damn good as it sits, and the Encore answers, almost to the bullet point, the list of concerns and criticisms about the BeoSound 5. 

    Including the price, which is a little high for what it offers lets face it.

    Not so fast... exhibit A:  The Bryston BDP-1 Digital Music Player ($2150 - http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BYBDP1%20%20%20%2017BLK).  It seems to be a competitor to the BS5 Encore, but without the beauty.  Although it does promise "unparalleled playback", and if the on-board DAC is not sufficient, you can buy an external, matching DAC for another $2150.

    Stan

     

  • 01-02-2011 3:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    Not impressed with that Bryston box. Same issues as the McIntosh. Any device that's going to store a digital media library has to take user-interface seriously. Not even Apple does a great job with this! The larger the collection, the harder it is to browse it. Two lines of text on the front of a device that will likely live in a cabinet is useless and turning over browsing to some app on an iPad is no good either. 

    Though B&O's software offerings haven't hit the bullseye until the BeoSound 5, the fact remains that, unlike many of these companies that heretofore made black-box components, B&O does have a pedigree in interface. Applying it is the key, but the fact that we've attempted to "do it ourselves" shows that interfacing is taken seriously. Companies that have never done it still don't know where to start. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 01-02-2011 4:03 PM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    I have to agree with Trip on this issue.

    The Bryston box seems  like it is  aimed squarily at the audiophile* segment, the separates-segment, that will buy anything as long as the marketing speech  is there with promises of "musicality", that are empty words - I mean, there is no such thing as a "musical" audio card. I'd prefer to see some measurements instead.

    Where I really, really agree with Trip, is that even if I have given the BS5 in its current incarnation quite a bit of flak, I'd much sooner buy two of those than the Bryston abomination.

    I'm not sure I'd even use the Bryson if it was given to me. In reality it is nothing more than a low-performance cpu, with a (I bet, cheap) audio card and a USB plug.  It can't even be used as a NAS, but you have to unplug the HDD to update it and add to it.

    At least with the BS5 you get something good looking and a lot of thought has been put into the interface.

    And the screen? Well, if I had three albums, the screen might be enough, but more than that,  and I'd even consider using my Echo Indigo IOx in an old laptop to at least get more functionality, and I bet better audio quality.

     

    /rant

     

    *Not in a good way

     

    Edit: Added a bit

  • 01-02-2011 4:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    To add to that last point, what I've found from a lot of interaction with clients is that the product to beat is not the AppleTV or a competing audio device, but the laptop computer itself. Companies from Sony to Apple to Dell are making thin, powerful, lightweight form factors, and that doesn't even take into account the tablets that will certainly pop up like the iPad. Having one of these on your lap puts iTunes and every other service right at your fingertips with the ability to search, sort, purchase, etc. While they're not inherently perfect, the ease of having everything "on the desktop" makes it an uphill climb for companies that don't value the GUI.

    If, at the end of the day, having one of these things on your lap and streaming to a pair of speakers is easier, then you've lost. Very few people, even those willing to pay higher prices, would ever take sound quality or any other performance metric over convenience. Like Steve Jobs said of the iPad, it will only succeed if there are things that it does better than a smart-phone or a laptop. Stereos, now so tightly tied to the internet and the digital sphere, are not immune for this logic.

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 01-02-2011 6:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    TripEnglish:
    like the iPad. Having one of these on your lap puts iTunes and every other service right at your fingertips with the ability to search, sort, purchase, etc. While they're not inherently perfect, the ease of having everything "on the desktop" makes it an uphill climb for companies that don't value the GUI.

    I agree ... I was a beta tester for Phil's LinkPlayer, but my usage patterns changed once I got an iPad.

    I have a whole range of apps at my finger tips, but the one I tend to use the most (even over Philippe's iPad app) is Apple's "Remote".

    But even it has annoying bugs but at least with software and the weight of Apple you know they will get ironed out.

    First B&O (1976) was a Beogram 1500 ... latest (2011) change has been to couple the BL11 with the BL6Ks *sounds superb*

  • 01-02-2011 7:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    >>While they're not inherently perfect, the ease of having everything "on the desktop" makes it an uphill climb for companies that don't value the GUI.<<

    ??? It's not easy to have everything on a desktop. Keep things simple. 

    The reason why I want a BS5 is because I want a simple music player. I do not want to clutter my living room with a computer. To me, computers are for work and I love to separate that out.

    I think to ignore digital would be dangerous for B&O and music for sure the rime is right since DRM that made it difficult for B&O to play is history.

    For video, that is another story. I agree with Jobs that there is not really a market, besides the vocal group that rips DVDs or downloads pirated videos from the internet. Boxee.TV seems to support that just nicely, will see how they fare.

     

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 01-03-2011 5:56 AM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    elephant:
    But even it has annoying bugs but at least with software and the weight of Apple you know they will get ironed out.

    What, you mean like their annoying bugs in Final Cut that hasn't been fixed four years on? Or their alarm clock in the iOS that first stopped working when Australia went to summertime, then when Europe went to summertime (both in November), and now worldwide when everyone changed from 2010 to 2011?

    Whistle

     

    jk1002:
    The reason why I want a BS5 is because I want a simple music player. I do not want to clutter my living room with a computer. To me, computers are for work and I love to separate that out.

    I agree. I don't like using my computers for pleasure listening either. I use it enough for audio production for work. I much prefer to have a stand-alone player of some sorts (I use Squeezeboxes at the moment).

    With that said, Trips assesment sounds right: I expect a good GUI for my stand-alone player. It has to be better than using a computer. The Bryston just doesn't cut it. Not even for someone like me who is very, very reluctant to use my computer as a means of pleasure listening.

     

     

     

  • 01-03-2011 10:50 AM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    Electrified:

    elephant:
    But even it has annoying bugs but at least with software and the weight of Apple you know they will should get ironed out.

    What, you mean like their annoying bugs in Final Cut that hasn't been fixed four years on? Or their alarm clock in the iOS that first stopped working when Australia went to summertime, then when Europe went to summertime (both in November), and now worldwide when everyone changed from 2010 to 2011?

    Whistle

    that better ?

    Whistle

    edit: interesting, the "will" is supposed to be looking like this "will" (struck through)

    First B&O (1976) was a Beogram 1500 ... latest (2011) change has been to couple the BL11 with the BL6Ks *sounds superb*

  • 01-03-2011 10:54 AM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    elephant:

    that better ?

    Whistle

    Well, not really, as it still doesn't change the sentiment in the post - not the actual wording -  and it's the sentiment I disagree with.

    Stick out tongue

     

     

  • 01-03-2011 4:41 PM In reply to

    • Stan
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    • Joined on 04-17-2007
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    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    Electrified:

    With that said, Trips assesment sounds right: I expect a good GUI for my stand-alone player. It has to be better than using a computer. The Bryston just doesn't cut it. Not even for someone like me who is very, very reluctant to use my computer as a means of pleasure listening.

    Which is exactly why I posted the Bryston link.  For all the negative flack the BS5 gets on this forum (too expensive, doesn't play CDs, etc.,), IMHO, there are lesser products on the market...

    Stan

  • 01-03-2011 7:27 PM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    That is certainly a point, but I don't think one should compare directly with the bottom dwellers to make the point that you can get something worse for more money, thereby implying that the supposed top product is the bee's knees - even if the price is about the same.

    Hell, I can propably get diamond crusted iPod Touch.

    Although, I do still think I'd sooner buy two BS5/BM5 than the Bryston, lol.

     

     

  • 01-04-2011 3:16 AM In reply to

    • kallasr
    • Top 75 Contributor
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    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    I don't usually reply to these threads, there are so many opinions and tastes and options and ....

    BUT: I have found my personal solution for digital music. And I want to share this.

    It is not B&O but - again for me - it has been the best I have seen so far.

    - Sonos ZP90 (playing through a Beosound 3000 by the way)
    - Napster (10 Euro/month music flatrate)
    - ipad (just as a touchscreen remote, hung on the wall, you could even use a bluetooth keyboard/input device)
    - optional: NAS (I use a Buffalo Terastation at home) with your personal CD collection

    Check www.sonos.com for screenshots and usability.

    We have been using this for a few weeks now and this has been the best so far.
    We tested all sort of standalone players, touchscreen pcs etc.
    I have not yet tested the BS5/BM5 - it is just too expensive for me.

    Best regards

    Ralf

    My Beo: Beosound 3000, Beolab 4000, Beo 4 DVD,  Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000, Beovox S45.2 with Stands, Beosystem 7000 black with Beolink 7000, Beolink 1000, F1000 (3 cubes), Beovox 5000, Beovox 3000, Attyca 1.

  • 01-04-2011 11:40 AM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    I still think that B&O has to stay on the digital market. The other brands on the market who offers you several solutions didn't invent the "digital" music, they had to adopt the technology either. Who claims that they do a better job? In my opnion they only offer you a cheaper solution.

    For me B&O has done till today a pretty good job. A part of my setup consists of a BV5 connected through VGA to my BM5 (which has btw a very good DAC inside).

    It isn't the complete Beosystem 5 of the BM5 and the BS5, just the BM5. And that's all I need.

    Of course the dealer wants to sell you the complete system, I don't blame him. But without the BS5 I only miss the MOTS feature (apart from the BS5 itself of course)

    But without the BS5 I get some extra features with the BM5 connected to a Beovision.

    While laying on the couch I can easily scroll through my albums, make easily playlists by selecting tracks or albums without disturbing the ongoing music. Play random playlist, albums etc.

    I have a NAS with all my music connected to a pc with beoplayer still on it. Beoplayer manages the music on the NAS. Only albums I want to hear are being copied by the beoplayer to the BM5. By managing I mean making sure that the tracks has the right id´s about the album, artists and a hi-res cover etc. You can even see within a second if an album is on the NAS or BM5 or Both.

    An advantage of coping just a part of my collection to the BM5 is that I don't have to search/scroll everytime through my whole collection. So after selecting the right album, playlist I have the option to switch from PC to the NMusic and the music continues without the screen from the BV5.

    So coming home and just selecting PC on the Beo4 and it works, it's so easy.

    I admit that software on the i.e. MacMini like Frontrow or Plex looks better, but selecting and making a playlist are easier done by the BM5.

    But I think a part of the problem lies in managing the digital media. You have to manage your digital content which takes/needs time. And for that I understand why B&O offers an all in one package with Beoconnect in combination with iTunes. All the music purchased or ripped by iTunes has the right id's and covers. Just drag and drop the album to Beoconnect and it's copied to the BM5.

    I dare to say ihmo that most of the members who criticize the BMS5 never had to opportunity to experience the BM5. Just looking at pictures isn't the same as experiencing. 

  • 01-04-2011 2:19 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    I am not sure I understand completely ...

    Beobuddy:

    Beoplayer manages the music on the NAS. Only albums I want to hear are being copied by the beoplayer to the BM5. By managing I mean making sure that the tracks has the right id´s about the album, artists and a hi-res cover etc. You can even see within a second if an album is on the NAS or BM5 or Both.

    An advantage of coping just a part of my collection to the BM5 is that I don't have to search/scroll everytime through my whole collection. So after selecting the right album, playlist I have the option to switch from PC to the NMusic and the music continues without the screen from the BV5.

    Do you mean that you can simultaneously see both lists of music on the BV, and then select what is to be played (or copied and then played) ?

    First B&O (1976) was a Beogram 1500 ... latest (2011) change has been to couple the BL11 with the BL6Ks *sounds superb*

  • 01-04-2011 4:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    Correct.

    I've taken some pictures and screendumps to illustrate.

    The first screendump illustrates which album is on the NAS (has a horizontal bar) and which on the BM5 (has a dot) or both.

    You can also see in which favourite (colour) group the album is placed.

     


  • 01-04-2011 4:53 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    How to copy to the BM5.

     

     


  • 01-04-2011 4:55 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    I've taken some pictures to illustrate how the BV looks without the BS5.

    This is what you only see if the BS5 is connected. (also an option as you can see with the BM without the BS5) 

     


  • 01-04-2011 4:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    So this is what you get on the BV without a BS5.

     


  • 01-04-2011 4:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    Press GO once to select the album.

     


  • 01-04-2011 4:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    Press GO and hold the button to add the album or track to a playlist.

     


  • 01-04-2011 5:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    Some options from the menu.

    Mind the 'Random On" option, which isn't available if you have the BS5 connected.

     


  • 01-04-2011 5:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    If you go to the "List Root", you'll get this:

     


  • 01-04-2011 5:11 PM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    So I think B&O suits me well.

    All the critiques about "it's just a pc with windows on it". What about all the other mediaplayers out there? They all have the same principal. A (kind of) pc mainboard shrinked to the least possible with mostly some kind of Linux version on it.

    I think it's a smart black box. I haven't seen another mediaplayer which can update it's windowssoftware, ML board software and it's own BIOS from the mainboard almost simultainiously on automatically base.

  • 01-05-2011 4:32 AM In reply to

    Re: Should B&O get out of the digital media market and concentrate on what they do best?

    Beobuddy:
    I've taken some pictures and screendumps to illustrate.

    Thank you so very much.

    That's truly fantastic -- the best illustration of the capabilities -- when it was a first announced I read the manual, but your photos bring it all to life and are so much better.

    Really appreciate you taking the time to do this for us -- I feel these pictures should be in a FAQ !!

    First B&O (1976) was a Beogram 1500 ... latest (2011) change has been to couple the BL11 with the BL6Ks *sounds superb*

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