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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 12-29-2010 10:57 AM by Electrified. 161 replies.
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  • 12-23-2010 11:36 AM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Does anyone know if the BS8 fades out when the power is turned off, and fades in when turned on? At least that would give it a little B&O credibility. The BV8-32, embarrassingly, doesn't have the electronic curtains. Wish they would come out with an update to fix that problem.

    Just read in the user guide that there's no "source" button to switch between iPod, USB or AUX-in. Instead, the BS8 accesses the ports in the order of iPod - USB port - AUX-in. The user guide specifies that for the AUX-in to be used, no iPod or USB can be hooked up simultaneously. Seems rather inconvenient. What if I docked my iPod for charging, but wanted to listen to something through the AUX-in at the same time?

    Doctor: are you sure it can be used as a link speaker? It doesn't have Masterlink - at least, the user guide doesn't say it does. I guess one could adapt a Masterlink or Powerlink cable to phono L and R and connect to the BS8 that way, but that would be very inconvenient. And you can't change tracks or source.

    Leo

    BV 10-40, BV 8-32, BL 9, BL 4, CX100, BS Ouverture, BS 2000, BG 4500, Passive, LC 1, A 9

  • 12-23-2010 1:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Steve at Sounds Heavenly has a solution!

  • 12-23-2010 1:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    There is another thread that reads:

    "Christmas wish-list from B&O"

    Mine is related to Beoworld. 

    PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT B&O.

    Specially about the BS8

    The BS8 is a great product and hopefully a very needed cash injection for B&O and their net of dealerships.

    Is it the perfect ipod dock....NO...but in my opinion is the BEST available. And no, is not expensive the price is OK for B&O standards.

    This reminds me about my Porsche that it doesn't even have a connector for an iPod, did I want it to have one, yes of course. Is it less Porsche for doesn't have it, off course not. Yes I could swap it for a Ford Fiesta with the last audio navigation system integration. Come on!!!. And I am not going around complaining about Porsche because how dare they didn't install a connector for a technology that has been around for many years. Nobody force me to buy it.

    You like it, can afford it, great buy it. Don't like it because whatever reason, great don't buy it. BS8 IS going to be a successful product anyways.

     

     

     

     

  • 12-23-2010 1:28 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    well said. I.

    I am at the age that i remember 3d coming out was going to completely change the cinema industry what happened it died a death. so bang and olufsen are right toensure a long term market exists,

    malcolm welborn

     

     

  • 12-23-2010 1:45 PM In reply to

    • Stan
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Doctor:

    How about comparing it to the Beolab 3500? You can use the BS8 as a link speaker and it also has the ability to be used as a dock. And it sounds as least as good as the 3500 and is cheaper.

    Wouldn't you really need to compare the BL3500 to the BS8 + BL Active?  Of course, the BL3500 features real aluminum surfaces... on the other hand, I think the BS8 sounds better... but then, the BL3500 will not easily play your iPod...  you make your choices and you spend your money... or not, and then, it seems, you come here to complain about not spending your money.

    It seems like the BS8 is a "hit" so maybe it is a good thing B&O doesn't pay too much attention to us.

    Stan

  • 12-23-2010 4:53 PM In reply to

    • Michael
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    I'm glad it's made in China as long as it's made to the specifications set by the company.  I think you're suffering from country of origin effect.

  • 12-23-2010 5:00 PM In reply to

    • Beolab1
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Posted the question ''Where is BeoSound8 made?'' a few days ago. Got a quick reply and never checked the forum after that one time. Until tonight. Did't realise that I started this now 5 page long topic! B&O's decision to produce a product in China seems quite controversial. 

    One of the reasons i buy B&O is that it's often produced in Streuer where the company began. It's part of the charm. Il like the fact that B&O provides jobs to the region. Jobs in which people can work in good (social) conditions for a fair pay with healthcare and pensions. The basis of a civilized country. I am willing to accept the higher price for this.

    After reading the reports of the mounting number of workers that killed themselves in the Chinese Apple Iphone factory, due to terrible working conditions and insane working hours, I have become very critical about high-end brands that move to China for their production. The only reason is cheaper labour, thus higher profits.

      

  • 12-23-2010 8:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    BeoLab 1 has hit the nail on the head perfectly.

    After getting a first in Law at University and studying 'Human Rights' I was horrified of what goes on in China. Again, the iPhone stories of young people killing themselves because they had 'mentioned about a new product' in the pipeline really upset me.

    As an educated person, when a HIGH END brand like B&O outsources to China it is for one thing only PROFIT and simply no other reason. I've seen it over the years in Marketing where we have lost contracts because China will do it at a tenth of the price (quality was lower but the profits higher).

    If i am to pay three times more for a product then I want a bespoke product because that is why I am paying so much for it in the first place!

    Bang and Olufsen isn't like Sony, Samsung, Panasonic. It's televisions as an example are at least TEN times the price of these makes (Samsung 32inch LCD LED at £379 compared to BeoVision 10/32inch). Maybe it makes sense to make them cheaply but certainly not B&O. Bang and Olufsen is bespoke and that means excellent working conditions for its employees either in Denmark or Eastern Europe. (must say though, my DVD1 was not made in Denmark and so far i've had five replacements since November 2005).

  • 12-24-2010 8:28 AM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Look, if we were going to worry about human rights we'd have to stop using oil and that's not going to happen. BS8 and the BV8 are both made in China. They are not made to B&O's traditional level of finish but they are more affordable and attract newcomers to the brand. I started my path to B&O with a Beocenter 2200 which was a repackaged Japanese music centre (although I did not realise it at the time).I moved on the better things and so, hopefully, will BS8 buyers.

  • 12-24-2010 12:15 PM In reply to

    • Dude1
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Are you saying that you feel duped?

  • 12-27-2010 11:39 AM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Hi Dude 1 - sorry to leave the reply hanging.

    No I did not feel duped that the BC2200 was not "real" B&O. It was an entry to the world of B&O design. It was not true B&O but the price reflected that. The BC2200 cost around 3 times what an average Japanese music centre cost at the time but it looked a lot better. A BS8 costs around 4x what a "decent" iPod dock costs and looks better (if you like that sort of styling).

    I should add that 24 years later the BC2200 is still working (could do with new cassette belts) so I guess that B&O specified well. Hopefully the BS8 will prove pretty durable too.

    My point was that I would not have leapt into B&O equipment at the level I have now - which probably costs 7 or more times the price of decent alternatives. That was just too big a premium too take on.

    The BS8 is an entry level product. B&O has to have some way of enticing newcomers to their products and they cannot do that without producing products that the mainstream market wants (ipod docks) at prices they are prepared to pay. That means making some compromises.

    Personally, I'd rather B&O stayed in business producing their traditional high quality products in Europe and some entry level products in China (or Vietnam or wherever) than go bust trying to make every product in Denmark.

     

  • 12-27-2010 1:12 PM In reply to

    • Dude1
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    I can understand what you are saying, but the BS1 and MX series were manufactured in DK. Here is where the "having to produce the products in Asia" argument falls down.  Then we have the B&O plant in the Czech Republic - whats happened to that?

    I feel what we have is a company with dare I say it, impotent management syndrome. They have ultimately set the company up in such a way that they now feel that the only way to compete is to have products manufactured by Asia outsourced corporations. It would be an interesting exercise open one up to see where the majority of components are coming from - my guess would be Sharp, or LG or some other cheap manufacturer. I think the management of B&O should hang their heads in shame. They are producing some products that would fare well coming from Toshiba, but no at all what the public expects from B&O.

    I am not against profits and profitability. Loads of European companies with less desireable brand names from all manner of industries are doing quite well not manufacturing in Asia. The Swiss didn't give up when the Japanese quartz and digital watch came along did they? They got better.

    My argument is this. You can manufacture B&O in Denmark and remain profitable. You don't need to make it all cheap and cheerful in Asia. Look at BV7, still selling after 6 years, look at BS9000, still selling. It comes down to quality, style and design. The management clearly lack  these traits today.

     

     

     

     

  • 12-27-2010 1:43 PM In reply to

    • Alex
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    • Joined on 04-16-2007
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Dude1:

    My argument is this. You can manufacture B&O in Denmark and remain profitable. You don't need to make it all cheap and cheerful in Asia. Look at BV7, still selling after 6 years, look at BS9000, still selling. It comes down to quality, style and design. The management clearly lack  these traits today.

    B&O can't survive by just selling £8k 32" TVs and £3500+ CD players. It'd be nice if they could, but they can't. The BeoVision 7 still sells well, but in comparison to what, the BeoVision 4?

    Also, how do you know what sort of profit B&O are making on the BeoVision 7 and BeoSound 9000?

     

    Manufacturing in China is something which IMO should've happened many years ago. With the BeoSound 8, Bang & Olufsen have proven that it's possible to provide quality from something made in the East. Not blowing my own whistle, but I did work for B&O for ~5 years and in all my time with them, I got a chance to use a lot of B&O products which IMO didn't come anywhere NEAR to the BeoSound 8 terms of build quality, or performance or design...

     Weekly top artists:                   

  • 12-27-2010 3:14 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Alex:

    Dude1:

    My argument is this. You can manufacture B&O in Denmark and remain profitable. You don't need to make it all cheap and cheerful in Asia. Look at BV7, still selling after 6 years, look at BS9000, still selling. It comes down to quality, style and design. The management clearly lack  these traits today.

    B&O can't survive by just selling £8k 32" TVs and £3500+ CD players. It'd be nice if they could, but they can't. The BeoVision 7 still sells well, but in comparison to what, the BeoVision 4?

    Also, how do you know what sort of profit B&O are making on the BeoVision 7 and BeoSound 9000?

     

    Manufacturing in China is something which IMO should've happened many years ago. With the BeoSound 8, Bang & Olufsen have proven that it's possible to provide quality from something made in the East. Not blowing my own whistle, but I did work for B&O for ~5 years and in all my time with them, I got a chance to use a lot of B&O products which IMO didn't come anywhere NEAR to the BeoSound 8 terms of build quality, or performance or design...

    Alex:

     

    Dude1:

    My argument is this. You can manufacture B&O in Denmark and remain profitable. You don't need to make it all cheap and cheerful in Asia. Look at BV7, still selling after 6 years, look at BS9000, still selling. It comes down to quality, style and design. The management clearly lack  these traits today.

    B&O can't survive by just selling £8k 32" TVs and £3500+ CD players. It'd be nice if they could, but they can't. The BeoVision 7 still sells well, but in comparison to what, the BeoVision 4?

    Also, how do you know what sort of profit B&O are making on the BeoVision 7 and BeoSound 9000?

     

    Manufacturing in China is something which IMO should've happened many years ago. With the BeoSound 8, Bang & Olufsen have proven that it's possible to provide quality from something made in the East. Not blowing my own whistle, but I did work for B&O for ~5 years and in all my time with them, I got a chance to use a lot of B&O products which IMO didn't come anywhere NEAR to the BeoSound 8 terms of build quality, or performance or design...

    Quite correct Alex, you live in the real world if many other contributors to this thread do not.

    The rope around the neck of B&O is that factory in Struer. It is a massive overhead that a company the size of B&O cannot afford in this age.

    Outsourcing to the incredibly clever and able Chinese is the route to survival. Danish manufacturing will eventualy strangle the company!

    Even the factory in the Czech Republic will soon become too expensive as the wage levels climb to match EU levels and the Health and Safety and do gooder brigade gets the upper hand.

     

    Eventually, the Struer operation must become a sales and marketing operation only and all development and manufacturing should move to the Pacific Rim areas, China being the cheapest place to manufacture for many years to come.

    This is not the future, it is the present, believe me, I've been there!

     

    Regards Graham

  • 12-27-2010 3:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    What if buyers decide that a premium product should be made in Denmark, and vote with their feet?

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 12-27-2010 3:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Then the price goes upWhistle

  • 12-27-2010 3:44 PM In reply to

    • Step1
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    joeyboygolf:

     

    Eventually, the Struer operation must become a sales and marketing operation only and all development and manufacturing should move to the Pacific Rim areas, China being the cheapest place to manufacture for many years to come.

    This is not the future, it is the present, believe me, I've been there!

     

    Crikey you've opened a whole new can of worms there Graham Surprise

    Olly.

  • 12-27-2010 4:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    j0hnbarker:

    What if buyers decide that a premium product should be made in Denmark, and vote with their feet?

    I believe that the vast majority of the market don't care where it is made. They only care that it appears to be and is marketed as attainable by the more successful members of the community and it will sell like hot cakes!

    And then there are a small number of Beoworld members..............

     

    Regards Graham

  • 12-27-2010 4:17 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Step1:

    joeyboygolf:

    Eventually, the Struer operation must become a sales and marketing operation only and all development and manufacturing should move to the Pacific Rim areas, China being the cheapest place to manufacture for many years to come.

    This is not the future, it is the present, believe me, I've been there!

    Crikey you've opened a whole new can of worms there Graham Surprise

    Agree and disagree: on what basis do you argue that development (does that include design?) should go to the Pacific Rim area?

     

     

    What intrigues me is what happens when China (1) lets its currency float and (2) its working class' wages reaches parity with other nations?

    We have seen Japan grab the manufacturing crown and then loose it to Korea, then Korea starts outsourcing to Vietnam, or where ever. 

    So I ask, what after China?

    Friends who do business in China have answered that China's domestic market is so huge that it will power their manufacturing engine for far longer.

    That may be true, but eventually the work will move yet once more ... whether it be to Mongolia, Ethiopia or Bolivia.

     

     

    But I don't believe the essence of Scandinavian design will be transplanted that easily.

    First B&O (1976) was a Beogram 1500 ... latest (2011) change has been to couple the BL11 with the BL6Ks *sounds superb*

  • 12-27-2010 4:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    joeyboygolf:

    And then there are a small number of Beoworld members..............

    Quite, Graham. That's why we're here and not messing about in the BeoLounge.

     

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 12-27-2010 4:42 PM In reply to

    • Dude1
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Utter garbage.

    If this is so, then Bang & Olufsen of Denmark might as well pack up and forget about bothering at all. Cheers to B&O of China - thats a product to aspire to! Assembled right alongside Toshibas!!

    The manufacture of anything in Europe is expensive. Hence, the price. The reality is many people are willing to pay extra for quality. I dread the day Bugatti, for example is made in Asia! It sounds like some of the members don't mind buying items manufactured in China - plenty of stores offer these...I can think of quite a few brands right now.

    The reality is innovation. If the product is innovative and has a perceived value, people will buy it. Remember BeoVision 5??

     

  • 12-27-2010 5:00 PM In reply to

    • symmes
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    j0hnbarker:

    What if buyers decide that a premium product should be made in Denmark, and vote with their feet?

    They always have voted with their feet, and always will. I guess you are suggesting that tanking the company in the name of the past is a better alternative? Shareholders won't put up with it. This management is anything but incompetent, and we should all hope that it does such a good job that they get to pick B&O's future dance partner.
  • 12-27-2010 5:03 PM In reply to

    • symmes
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Ipad echo fail. Sorry
  • 12-27-2010 5:13 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Dude1:

    Utter garbage.

    If this is so, then Bang & Olufsen of Denmark might as well pack up and forget about bothering at all. Cheers to B&O of China - thats a product to aspire to! Assembled right alongside Toshibas!!

    The manufacture of anything in Europe is expensive. Hence, the price. The reality is many people are willing to pay extra for quality. I dread the day Bugatti, for example is made in Asia! It sounds like some of the members don't mind buying items manufactured in China - plenty of stores offer these...I can think of quite a few brands right now.

    The reality is innovation. If the product is innovative and has a perceived value, people will buy it. Remember BeoVision 5??

    B&O already uses panels and components made in China so why not ship the finished pieces of aluminium out and let them fit the frames "alongside the Toshibas".

    Better, flog them the technology to produce the aluminium pieces and leave it all to them. In a couple of weeks, unload the container and make your profit..........."simples"

     

    No factory required............

     

    Regards Graham

  • 12-27-2010 5:39 PM In reply to

    • Michael
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    j0hnbarker:

    What if buyers decide that a premium product should be made in Denmark, and vote with their feet?

    Then they would buy a BS4? and not an entry level product?  Should it be the more you pay, the 'premium' products are made in DK/EU?  Otherwise if BS8 was made in DK/EU at a similar price point, the 'value' of other systems would be questioned. 

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