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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 12-29-2010 10:57 AM by Electrified. 161 replies.
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  • 12-20-2010 12:01 PM

    • Beolab1
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    Where is BeoSound8 made?

    I picked up a rumour that beoSound8 is made in China. Since I love B&O and it's philosophy, I couldn't believe this. Does anybody have the awnser?

  • 12-20-2010 12:06 PM In reply to

    • Opman
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    BeoSound8 is manufactured in China to Bang & Olufsen specification.

    Opman

  • 12-20-2010 12:12 PM In reply to

    • Beolab1
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Thank you Opman. So it is true. very sad news that B&O has decided not to produce in Denmark or their new factory in Europe.

  • 12-20-2010 12:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Do not think this is too bad. Better it is made in China and with a nice price tag then made in Denmark and priced out of mass market.

    B&O needs to enlarge it's customers base and BS8 is a nice starter.

    BeoVision 8-40 / BeoVision 8-32 / Beovision 6-26 / BeoSound 3200 / BeoSound 1 / BeoLab 3 /  Beolab 6000 / Beolab 2000 / Beoport / Beomedia 1 / 3* Beo4 /BeoCom 5 with VOIP

  • 12-20-2010 1:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    I had the chance to play with a BS8 in a store today, and was disappointed by its quality. The remote control is lightweight and plasticky (although I like the "UFO"-inspired design). The LED's surrounding the control panel that light up when the volume is changed look cheap and tacky. The socket that juts out above the unit when no iPod or iPad is docked is weird. The smooth black metal/plastic? finish on the cones behind the speakers feels like something from another manufacturer...

    Add to all this the fact that it's manufactured in China leaves me sighing and shaking my head. Sorry - I guess the BS8 just doesn't do it for me, although I'm sure the sound is OK. But I hope its low price-point will bring more newcomers to the brand, which in turn will help B&O maintain its higher quality products.

    Leo

    BV 10-40, BV 8-32, BL 9, BL 4, CX100, BS Ouverture, BS 2000, BG 4500, Passive, LC 1, A 9

  • 12-20-2010 1:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    My goodness it's a sad day when a Bang and Olufsen is made in China! I agree that the supplied remote is of a horrible quality. I was quite shocked when the salesman handed me it.

    Made in China - so it's a £300 dock selling for £900!   ok right on! You ain't fooling me B&O! Shame on you!

  • 12-20-2010 2:03 PM In reply to

    • Greg
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    To think I was considering opening a B&O store a while back... thank goodness the wise people here talked me out of it.  I really despair of B&O's future - if it has a future.  Recent products have been disappointing to say the least.

    I couldn't believe that after all the hype and build-up a couple of years ago for their revolutionary digital media product, it turned out to be nothing more than a massive iPod on a stick (Beosound 5)!!! Actually much less sophisticated in most respects than an iPod touch. 

    But it's even more depressing that now the hot new product is an iPod dock. A product designed to play second fiddle to another company's more innovative product. And it's made out of plastic, in China.  Perhaps the 1000% - or more - mark up on this product is supposed to allow B&O to survive, and to keep making high quality products like the TVs?  But even so, it seems to me the future B&O is cheap plastic tat, albeit "blinged up" to appeal to oligarchs and WAGs. What a shame to destroy brand values like this.

  • 12-20-2010 2:49 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    I don't understand. This way of thinking might be true 15 years ago but now Made in China is not neccesarily bad quality. Apple is enterily mostly made in china, but designed by an English guy and marketed by Americans, so the best of the world in every field.

    What do you really want of B&O, extremelly high quality, hand made, innovation and on top of that cheap and off course a profitable company? Excuse me but that, now, in this context, in this world is extremelly unatainable, almost imposible. If you a have a recipe to do that, well put it in a packaging and sell it, fastest way to millonaire.

    Who cares where is it made as long as higher quality standards are mantained. A factory is a factory and quality control is universal, unfortunetely for some people, salaries are not universal along with other manufacturing costs.

    Does it make it a better B&O probably not but one that acts according to the circumstances. People, the world have changed, for the better or for worst it really doesn't matter, can't do anything against that. It just a matter of survival and know how to addapt to change.

    B&O cheese has moved. Well B&O needs to go to out and find their new cheese somewhere else and slowly and painfully have learnt that.

    The benchmark by excellence, the utter famous B&W Zeppelin, I wonder where is it made.

     

  • 12-20-2010 2:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Been saying all along its overpriced.Most buyers probably won't realise until they unpack the box at home.

    No offence intended,but a large percentage of the B&O customers i have witnessed in stores are fairly ignorant in terms of model generations,basic technical spec and so on.Unlike the more informed Beoworlders.However,I think this will anger some,especially considering the asking price.Dealers seem to be brainwashed into thinking it's a bargain just because of the usual ever increasing,unrealistic prices B&O are charging.Even my local dealer struggled to remember the latest prices on some TVs because they keep going up ffs!

    It's a very simple dock.A bar with some drive units on the end.Shouldn't cost nearly a grand.

    Cant see dealers being overt regarding it's origin,unless pushed.Doesn't particularly bother me where it is made,as long as the quality is to an acceptable [high] standard.

    I would have paid up to £750,now i wouldn't pay more than £600 for one.

    Gonna buy one of the alternatives on my shortlist methinks.Hey ho.

     

     

     

     

  • 12-20-2010 3:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    I don't agree BeoFab. Bang and Olufsen are expensive because they prided themselves on 'hand built' products made in Denmark!

    Ok, the Zeppelin is made in China - it's £400 not £900! It's like buying a Ferrari and finding out it was made in China in the same factory as that £10,000 hatchback!

    It's turning into a bling bling brand for the WAGS. I've loved B&O all my life but right now I am thoroughly disgusted with their direction. They are coming across like a bunch of fools who have just woken up to 2010.

    And yes maybe Apple is assembled in China however its prices are not 5 times higher than all over the other brands - period!

     

    I totally agree with Greg on this one. I have a BeoSound Century. Yes it was £950 say nine years ago but it was made in Denmark and apart from speakers and amplifiers ALSO includes CD player, a top performing cassette deck and decent radio with a beautiful electric glass door - proof that B&O can make all of that in Denmark at a decent price!!!

    All I see right now is PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT and I for one will not be taken in by this.

    I was about to buy a 32" BeoVision 10 however there is no chance with the current thinking of this Company! Very disappointing direction from a Company that I put my faith in!

  • 12-20-2010 4:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    I must confess that although I like the thought of all B&O being made in Struer , the reality has long been that large parts of the products have been bought in and only the final assembly has been in Denmark. All TVs have long been made from Far Eastern parts, much of the electronics are assembled in China, and very little except the alumium originates from Struer.

    The Century was of course based around a Philips cassette deck made almost entirely from plastic and based around a twin cassette design, the Dolby chip was made by Sony, and the CD was again made for B&O by Philips.

    The Beosound 8 may be assembled in China , but the sound performance is quite fantastic and the circuit design and general form are all B&O. I am still giving serious consideration to getting one, especially with the news that it can be included as a link speaker, via Steve at Sounds Heavenly. The remote may be cheap, but you can use a Beo4, 5 or 6 if you want. The Century was £1150 when last sold and the BS8 will outperform it by a country mile.

  • 12-20-2010 4:59 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Doctor:

    I must confess that although I like the thought of all B&O being made in Struer , the reality has long been that large parts of the products have been bought in and only the final assembly has been in Denmark. All TVs have long been made from Far Eastern parts, much of the electronics are assembled in China, and very little except the alumium originates from Struer.

    The Century was of course based around a Philips cassette deck made almost entirely from plastic and based around a twin cassette design, the Dolby chip was made by Sony, and the CD was again made for B&O by Philips.

    The Beosound 8 may be assembled in China , but the sound performance is quite fantastic and the circuit design and general form are all B&O. I am still giving serious consideration to getting one, especially with the news that it can be included as a link speaker, via Steve at Sounds Heavenly. The remote may be cheap, but you can use a Beo4, 5 or 6 if you want. The Century was £1150 when last sold and the BS8 will outperform it by a country mile.

     

    Agree with this.

    While it fits nicely with the brand image to think of "hand fabricated by craftsmen" hand assembly is what actually happens. I've also heard folk speak of hand machined aluminium, whereas the video on site cleearly shows all machining done by CNC machines - in reality the only way to do it and get high quality, repeatable and interchangeable parts. 

    The site of assembly does not give any true indication of the quality of design, materials or reliability of the product.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 12-20-2010 5:33 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    The whole thing sounds like a con to me. Ford Fiesta for Jaguar price anybody?

  • 12-20-2010 5:48 PM In reply to

    • Step1
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    B&O have been outsourcing at least part of their production for a heck of a long time. Not sure where you would start tbh. Certainly you would be shocked if you knew the truth about B&O's many cd and VCR 'custom clones'.

    This company has to survive, and as far as I am concerned innovation is what has always put B&O ahead of the game - quality has always suffered slightly at the introductory end of the market, However the most important feature that this unit offers, that of good sound, does not appear to have suffered one bit, which I couldn't say about some of the systems released in previous years!

    If I had the cash I would not even consider where this item was made, as long as I was happy with the end product. Personally I am as happy to see something made in China as I am the UK, Denmark or whereever these days. Doesn't bother me one bit!

    Olly.

  • 12-20-2010 5:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Paul Winn:

    The whole thing sounds like a con to me. Ford Fiesta for Jaguar price anybody?

    But it isn't a Ford Fiesta - it outperforms any other dock. Think Aston Martin Rapide if you will. (Made in austria)

     

  • 12-20-2010 6:11 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    I don't see the problem. Most electronics these days are put together with parts made in Asia, all the way down to the individual cap's on the circuit board.

    Some manufacturers then supply their own skins to the innards. In non-B&O A/V it's at times amusing to watch how many manufacturers are using the exact same internal workings, with their designed shell around it.

    I bought my BV8 100% aware of where it was made, it still breathes B&O, just as Apple products state their origin, in spite of being made in the same place.

    You can specify exactly the quality level you want from China - doesn't seem to bother B&W customers. That company makes everything in China. A friend recently bought a wood day cruiser made in China. It had woodwork and varnish of a quality that you simply do not see any longer, and which was possible precisely because of the standards of excellence combined with low price that China offers.

    I'd buy an objection to purchasing something from China because of second thoughts about the regime there - but not when it comes to quality issues.

  • 12-20-2010 6:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Paul Winn:

    The whole thing sounds like a con to me. Ford Fiesta for Jaguar price anybody?

    Sorry Paul, I am not trying to sound offensive but honestly I don't see any concistency in the way you think.

    You state that your are very young and that people in your generation are OK with an ipod dock with it low res mp3 quality music and with the parties "playlist style" and I agree with that I like it too, but now the dock sound is not pure enough for you when clearly the BS8 sounds even better than a Zeppelin which is already very good quality sound.

    Then you talk about separate trebble and bass control..., but this is an iPod dock. Sorry but that IS a fearture for the bigger leagues systems otherwise you really want a Ford Fiesta with Jaguar features but off course for a Fiesta price. Yeah I want one too Big Smile

    Your remark about Ferrari is wrong also, Ferrari was bought long time ago by Fiat, which as you know, sell affordable cars for the masses. Enzo Ferrari by the way could not care less about their "street cars" for the "stupid rich" it was his source of income for his real passion which was racing.

    Aston Martin was bought by an hedge fund and some oil rich arabs. Porsche bought by VW. MOST of the luxury brands are either of the LVMH group (Louis Vuitton, Kenzo, Mercier, Moet & Chandon, Givenchy, Tag Heuer, Veuve Cliqot, Fendi, Pucci, Dom Perignon,  Loewe, Givenchy, Hennesy, etc. Hermes was their last target)or Richmont Group (Cartier, Mont Blanc, Piaget, Van Cleef & Arpels, Baume Mercier, IWC, Jaeger LeCoultre, Panerai, Dunhill, Baucheron Constantin, Purdy, Chloe, Alaia, etc.).

    As you can see these are lonely and theatening times for a luxury brand without any kind of back up behind.

    No I don't like this either but these are facts.

    Again in times of the iPod dock you bring the B&O century, yes I like it too but sonically is no match and well sorry but cassettes are long dead. Yes probably those magical doors made me fall in love of B&O when I was a kid but today that's long gone.

    Sorry but if what you are looking for in a dock is a Ferrari for the price of a Fiat, it seems that it has not been release yet. The two best are the Zeppelin and the BS8 your choice.

    Again this is my opinion. Things are what they are, not what we want. You either like it or not. That is freedom and that is your choice. Again perfection either doesn't exist or is way too expensive...Laughing

    All our BS8 wish list and BS5 wish list at the end of the day are pointless because the product it is what it is and in my humble opinion with all it lacks and flaws and price excesiveness it is still some of the best out there in many aspects: materials, magical features, design, construction quality, warranty etc.

    In summary is the BS8 the best possible iPod dock...no. Is the best out there...for me, YES no doubt.( Yeah it could sound better, be cheaper, have masterlink, play CD and come with a Ferrari) but still is pretty awesome.

     

     

  • 12-20-2010 7:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    B&O made in China=Lack of style.

    we can talk all the day about what's wrong/right for B&O balance sheet.. but we can't hide from the truth.Lack Of Style.

    Period.

     

  • 12-20-2010 7:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    BeoFab:

    I don't understand. This way of thinking might be true 15 years ago but now Made in China is not neccesarily bad quality.

    Doctor:
     

    The site of assembly does not give any true indication of the quality of design, materials or reliability of the product.

    True. However, the design and materials of the BS8 is mediocre from the start. My impression from playing with the BS8 came out very poor, and that was before I went home, logged on to BeoWorld and learned that it was made in China.

    Leo

    BV 10-40, BV 8-32, BL 9, BL 4, CX100, BS Ouverture, BS 2000, BG 4500, Passive, LC 1, A 9

  • 12-20-2010 8:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    IMHO Beosound 8  does not have a place in curent line of products. It is very cheap, in the pictures looks ordinary but in reality looks weird.  It is out of proportions. 

    I have a lot of B&O products but Beosound 8 will never be part of my collection. . I spent a lot of money on B&O, but if  B&O continue to make products in China and ....., then they have lost me as a client. I remeber I exchanged three  Beosound 4  due to the finger marks on the aluminum part...and two Beo5 remotes

    I remember also I had chinese customers that specifically wanted products not made in China...hmmm

    all sold!

  • 12-20-2010 9:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Well you can have your shoes hand made in Italy, you suits on Seville Row and all your watches in Switzerland. But you know I am pretty sure that in any of that products at least there is one component that has been made in China.

    And I bet in any household there are more made in China products than you think.

    This is how are things today. Do I like it. Well probably not. But also I understand that it can be well done. Honestly Apple does a good job and almost everything is made in china and most people don't care. The products specifically say "designed in California, Made in China".

    It is a generalization as say all swiss watch are great, all Italian cars are great and all french champagne are good quality. Well yes in general. In particular there cheap awful swiss watches, expensive and unreliable italian cars and undrinkable french champagne.

    My guess is little by little in 15 years Made in China will not be synonymous of low quality anymore.

    Again it can be done correctly with good materials and spectacular design and the highest quality control.

    Now in the other hand what I prefer: local labor, more jobs for skillful and well prepared people and respect of the craftsmanship. Obviously most of the companies unfortunetely don't think that way. And like it or not B&O is competing against this companies and they are beating them to the punch unless they do something about it. What do you think they will be force to do?

  • 12-21-2010 12:59 AM In reply to

    • mediabobny
    • Top 200 Contributor
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    • Greenwich Village, NYC
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    What happened, did the Czech Republic become too expensive?  They're being penny-wise, to appeal to the stockholders, and pound-foolish.  It will alienate potential customers - e.g. me.  High cost does not mate well with low wage.  Where next, Vietnam?

    Will the last person leaving Struer please turn out the lights?

  • 12-21-2010 1:30 AM In reply to

    • John
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    Doctor:

    I must confess that although I like the thought of all B&O being made in Struer , the reality has long been that large parts of the products have been bought in and only the final assembly has been in Denmark. All TVs have long been made from Far Eastern parts, much of the electronics are assembled in China, and very little except the alumium originates from Struer.

    The Century was of course based around a Philips cassette deck made almost entirely from plastic and based around a twin cassette design, the Dolby chip was made by Sony, and the CD was again made for B&O by Philips.

    The Beosound 8 may be assembled in China , but the sound performance is quite fantastic and the circuit design and general form are all B&O. I am still giving serious consideration to getting one, especially with the news that it can be included as a link speaker, via Steve at Sounds Heavenly. The remote may be cheap, but you can use a Beo4, 5 or 6 if you want. The Century was £1150 when last sold and the BS8 will outperform it by a country mile.

    I'd agree; it seems to me that the upset here seems to be one of perceptions - a psychological issue rather than a material one.

     

    People buy value added specialist products, where the perception (value added) is of greater quality, style, and/or performance over 'lessor' mainstream products.  

    The reality is that certainly in the electronics/HiFi/TV/Audio world, perhaps only the mainstream majors such as Sony, Matsushita (Panasonic), Yamaha, and Phillips etc have the resources to build much of what they make more or less totally in house, including LSI's, chipsets, DVD/Bluray drives etc.

    The specialist will likely make some parts in house, but the rest will be all OEM parts bought in, and final assembly take place in their factory.  This is a fact of life given global manufacturing and marketing in a global business community.

    Given that the specialist is selling value added products to a niche market, some potential buyers in that market are likely to feel upset if they realise that the product they are buying is often made in a factory, or has parts sourced from the same OEM parts suppliers, as more mainstream, cheaper and less 'prestigious' products.

    My experience of the High End audiophile world, is that many so called specialist manufacturers, who are in reality assemblers, would like you to believe that their, and only their product, is the best engineered, best sounding product in the world.  However, none to my knowledge have yet submitted their products to blind, level matched ABX testing to prove it - so their 'take' on sound is purely subjective at best, and what one ends up buying is often the perceptions of a difference in sound, which is marketed as being better than 'lessor' products, and nothing more, apart from the usually very fancy box and elevated price tag.  As such, my experiences would lead me to believe that much of high end audio, along with mega buck cables, stands, and attendant voodoo and witchcraft, is a marketing con for gullible, obsessive HiFi anoraks, chasing HiFi nirvana at the end of a very expensive golden rainbow.

    So, if B&O plays in the world of HiFi & Audio, is a specialist in that they use OEM bought in parts, assembled either in their own factories or elsewhere, does that make their products a con as has been suggested earlier in the thread?

    I believe quite emphatically, no, and on two important counts.

    The amount of R&D that B&O have put into audio and visual products is almost without peer, discounting perhaps large multinational companies such as Harmon International and the work of Floyd Toole as regards acoustics and psychoacoustics.  

    B&O's R&D team are all tertiary educated, highly qualified professionals - not an enthusiast come amateur technician with entrepreneurial skills starting up an value added 'specialist' operation in the kitchen.  People such as Geoff Martin, with a BMus in Organ performance, a further tonnmeister degree, and a PHd in acoustics.  Research projects into acoustics such as the Archimedes project; the R&D facilities such as the cube - the largest anechoic measuring space in Europe, and the collaboration with leading universities into psycho-acoustics.  And certainly the use of a listening/viewing panel, who all have their hearing checked, and have to attend a fixed minimum of live concerts so as to be continually familiar with live sound as a reference, along with blind testing.  

    I know of no other manufacturer in the so called high end of audio who go to such lengths in the pursuit of the closest approach to the original sound - rather than the most impressive sound, or the one with the most PRaT (Linn & Naim anyone?) or air and space etc.  No, the emphasis is firmly on scientific logic, research principles and objective analysis, and for that fact alone, B&O are worth the price of admission IMHO.

    Secondly, style and ergonomics.

    It is one thing to build something of quality.  It is another to build something that could stand alone as a piece of industrial art.  And in these days of increasing complexity as regards home electronics/Audio-Visual, it is so refreshing to find a manufacturer who considers the end user re the interaction and intuitive ease of use of the product as it fits into ones everyday life and attendant lifestyle.  Very few high end specialist AV manufacturers put these three elements together; quality, style and intuitive ease of use if we are talking AV systems for the home.

    As such, B&O IMHO stands alone in the specialist AV scene; the combination of audio and video quality backed by the most painstaking objective research, the modern yet timeless quality of design, materials and manufacture, and the intuitive operation sets them apart from the specialist crowd in a way that causes me to accept and be willing where possible within my means to pay the price of admission.

     

    Best Regards

     

    John... 

    No-one ever regretted buying quality.

  • 12-21-2010 1:54 AM In reply to

    • BenSA
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    B&O have had some of their products virtually completely made in Japan before, years ago. I'm not quite sure why the China aspect is such a shock. Apple does the same and their products are always mentioned here as exclusive yet no one seems to mind they are produced in China. Would I rather have a B&O made in Denmark, of course, no contest but its no longer a reality. Its either compete or close down sadly. They have no choice.

    Also people need to remember that the BS8 is just an Ipod dock after all.....no reason to put sliding glass doors on that!

    Durban South Africa

  • 12-21-2010 3:14 AM In reply to

    • Chris
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    Re: Where is BeoSound8 made?

    I have a neighbor who has recently been mocking my Avant etc and going on about the Philips parts etc.

    This has now stopped as i told him that his very expensive Volvo uses a Ford platform, an engine made in Liverpool, a Ford gearbox and engine management system. This is not the future, but 10 years ago and the fact that the Beosound 8 is made in China is no great shock at all. Would i want to pay £1300 for it to be made in Denmark? The Rolls Royce uses a BMW engine. The Aston Martin has 2 Mondeo engines stuck together, the Jaguar on a Mondeo platform etc etc

    Lets just hope the profits they hopefully make from this system are poured back into R&D for future TV's etc

    A Beovision 10-40 in black and red fret on order, Beo4, Beo6, many A8's, a pair of white and yellow Form 2's, Beocom 4, 28 inch Avant RF DVD, Apple TV and a wife that loves this stuff as much as i do! 

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