If I had a chance back when I bought my BL5, I would likely have purchased the BS5 to go with them. It is a beautiful unit in sight and touch. Wasn't out yet.

As it is, I have my lab 5 connected directly via dig coax to a Sonos zp90. I also have my bs9000 connected as well. I made this possible using a digital audio splitter which automatically sends the active signal to the speakers.

It's not a perfect system but it works. I can play lossless music via Sonos from a time capsule that serves as a NAS. Sonos also allows me to play net sources like rhapsody and Sirius radio.

Still, the BS5 is really, really nice and if you can go for it.

@ tripenglish

 

Hmm ... i have a lot of B&O gear for decades now ... but i am still interested in solutions that are innovative and meet the demands of contemporary lifestyles. And i think that your phrases are not getting any wiser by permanent repetition.

There are several innovative alternatives in the market, that can even be integrated into a B&O world. And a lot of people here experienced, that they may offer even better sound quality (not necessarily Sonos, although it delivers CD quality resolution). At the same time this gear is open for networking with significant players in the market and can adapt to new chanels of distribution. And me and some other people don't see why B&O shouldn't take care of these massive changes.

The Beosound 5 is far from beeing a successful product within the B&O portfolio ... you should know the sales numbers, as you are part of the sales organisation. How can you say it meets the demands of B&O customers, when it is such an underperformer saleswise. B&O customers expect excellence and the BS/BM 5 does not deliver. And it is not getting any better by refusing reality.

I personally stick to TV's and loudspeakers made by B&O, where they deliver excellence imho. And i am glad, that integration with superior products work pretty well. And it is not a questions of money at first hand. But i hate to pay a premium for an underperformer.

Yesterday the new B&O Gateway was explained to me. It makes sense with advanced and complex bus-systems in house automatisation and therefore will be a niche market. This is important to have for a brand like B&O because it shines down on the rest of the portfolio. But it is not suitable for bigger sales numbers in the sophisticated consumer markets ... and a company like B&O will need these revenues to pay future research & development to be able to compete in terms of technical and functional excellence.

I hope "we" is not "you" ... maybe the B&O organisation is starting to learn what life is going to be in 10 years time.

Regards

Tim

Rookie,

As your name suggests, you have a little bit to learn.  

Rookie:

Hmm ... i have a lot of B&O gear for decades now ... but i am still interested in solutions that are innovative and meet the demands of contemporary lifestyles. And i think that your phrases are not getting any wiser by permanent repetition.

Neither is anyone else's, but that's life on the forums.

Rookie:

There are several innovative alternatives in the market, that can even be integrated into a B&O world. And a lot of people here experienced, that they may offer even better sound quality (not necessarily Sonos, although it delivers CD quality resolution). At the same time this gear is open for networking with significant players in the market and can adapt to new chanels of distribution. And me and some other people don't see why B&O shouldn't take care of these massive changes.

I'm interested in which solutions you're referring to? Kaleidescape? Maybe, but it needs a TV screen in every room and costs 5 figures just to get a basic one-room setup. Interactive iPod docks? Same issue and you're limited to what's on your iPod. Apple's Airplay? Same issues as Sonos. Too much extra gear needed to correct for poor sound quality and the interface isolates you from the system at large. None of these are terrible solutions, mind you, but they're all far from perfect.

Rookie:

The Beosound 5 is far from beeing a successful product within the B&O portfolio ... you should know the sales numbers, as you are part of the sales organisation. How can you say it meets the demands of B&O customers, when it is such an underperformer saleswise. B&O customers expect excellence and the BS/BM 5 does not deliver. And it is not getting any better by refusing reality.

The issue here has little to do with the BeoSound 5 specifically and more to do with the role that audio plays in the home. It's as much a philosophical sea-change as anything. The two-channel world thrived on and bred dedicated audio listeners and people were as likely to listen to an album on their home audio system as watch television. 

These days video rules the home and music has been relegated to a soundtrack in the background for many users. It's not unusual to leave audio out of a very large sophisticated system just because the client doesn't listen to much music. In these cases an AppleTV does the trick and, for all its failings, is my go-to media box.

It's highly doubtful that dedicated audio players will ever comprise as strong a position in the sales mix as they once did, with TVs and loudspeakers gobbling up more of the budget. This makes sense and reflects a portfolio with two options rather than 4-5 as in the CD world. 

Rookie:

I personally stick to TV's and loudspeakers made by B&O, where they deliver excellence imho. And I am glad, that integration with superior products work pretty well. And it is not a questions of money at first hand. But i hate to pay a premium for an underperformer.

I'm glad you see the value in the video. As you may have heard, many here don't. I've recently learned to sleep through the night despite this fact. (-;

As for the BeoSound 5 being an under-performer, I might suggest that mis-performer is a better description. You failed to offer specific alternatives that sparked your interest, so I'm not sure what you actually find wrong with the BeoSound 5 and what you find right with other media products, but given that the BeoSound 5 is price competitive with its true peers, unimpeachable in its sound performance, dazzling in its physical beauty, lighting fast in its operation, and offers complete integration in a way no other product does, I'm interested in hearing just what you think is the matter with it. 

Rookie:

Yesterday the new B&O Gateway was explained to me. It makes sense with advanced and complex bus-systems in house automatisation and therefore will be a niche market. This is important to have for a brand like B&O because it shines down on the rest of the portfolio. But it is not suitable for bigger sales numbers in the sophisticated consumer markets ... and a company like B&O will need these revenues to pay future research & development to be able to compete in terms of technical and functional excellence.

I hope "we" is not "you" ... maybe the B&O organisation is starting to learn what life is going to be in 10 years time.

Regards

Tim

B&O has never gone after the mass market and has expanded and contracted around the very top few percent depending on broader economic conditions. You should also do a little research on how electronics firms actually develop new technologies. 

It should be noted that ML Gateways offer benefits at any scale of system and most successful shops include them as a matter of course in their system designs. Integration is the watch-word of our industry and the public has less and less tolerance for the sacrifices required of certain novelties.

-T-Bone

Hi Trip,

As I mentioned in a previous answer I am considering two options when available:

1) The BS5 Encore / Beo6 combo

2) The Olive HD server.

 

By any chance you or anyone have any experience with the latter?

 

Thanks

Tim (Rookie), you have a wonderful setup like you described on the previous page. The iPhone/iPad app for Sonos is a joy to use. Better and faster than any controller on the market. Plus the benefits it can do lots of other things other than controlling your music-library.

 

BeoFab:

Hi Trip,

As I mentioned in a previous answer I am considering two options when available:

1) The BS5 Encore / Beo6 combo

2) The Olive HD server.

 

By any chance you or anyone have any experience with the latter?

 

Thanks

 

BeoFab,

(I just finishing writing this. Wow. Got pretty detailed on this. Hope it helps!)

The Olive HD server is not yet released, but it's one of the more direct competitors out except for the Sooloos. Most media servers seem to be primarily on-screen affairs which I personally believe to be both lazy & limiting in design. Lazy because they're essentially organized like database programs and have to be navigated with up and down keys. This makes navigating large collections cumbersome and hinders discovery because moving through the lists takes so long you tend to miss connections and opportunities. Most products don't offer discovery algorithms either, except for genius, which is surprisingly unimaginative for Apple but probably based on the fact that suggestions are made based on meta-data and the real purpose is to sell more iTunes content (not actually a bad thing, mind you, but Amazon has done way more for me in terms of suggesting new music which surprises me given Apple's overall talent for software). Even Kaleidescape's discovery method (the floating covers) proves to be based too heavily on connections in meta-data. All it really does is group all of an artists catalog together. Beyond that the screen isn't big enough to display more oblique (but often more interesting) connections.

I think that as we move away from the iPod as the primary means for delivering digital music into the home and toward more specialized products, more brands, especially established hi-fi brands, will see the value in a dedicated hands-on approach. I personally welcome the competition. It's a lot easier to compare Apples with Apples and some people genuinely don't see (or don't care) about the difference between a $99 music streamer and a real high-performance dedicated digital music platform. As more and more make it onto the market there will be a better understanding of the benefits of dealing with music directly and not just making it a big ol' memory box attached to the TV. Digital music offers so many benefits not available with hard music and memory boxes don't even attempt to make use of these. 

CD players never had any way of leveraging your music collection to make discovery within the collection more accessible and enjoyable and certainly didn't offer any ability to grow your collection intelligently. To simply browse a collection like a card file is like inventing the wheel and then turning it sideways to use as a table. Aside from Apple, no one (including us) offers an attached store. There are many legalities and obstacles that make it difficult for a brand like B&O (or Meridian, or McIntosh, etc) to embed a marketplace into their products, but this will, at some point, have to change. It's in the content industry's best interest that means of acquisition be immediately available and integrated into the consumption device. When they figure it out, they'll (or some) will package it and modularize it like Apple has with advertising so that it can be included without investing in the delivery architecture. 

As for the BeoSound 5 Encore, it's not compatible with the Beo6 for browsing. It sort of is the Beo6. It may be compatible in the future, but at this point the Beo6 is a BeoSound 5 only device. It's worth a look, I suppose, but the BeoSound 5 Encore will, until some time in 2012, be essentially a standalone "junior" product. BeoSound 5 is the serious older brother for the time being.

Good luck with your search. I look forward to checking out the Olive when it lands. 

T

Thank you Trip for your long answer. And spot on I must say.

It seems that in terms of user interface, design, beauty, easy of use and MOTS the Beosound 5 is really hard to beat. With the Beo6 I guess one of the biggest flaws is more than solved (without leaving the remote navigation to an iPhone which essentially is adding another "remote").

Andreas,

Now regarding the doubt that you expressed about the Apple TV, I have one an in my humble opinion the quality of the music that you are going to get out of it is not going to make sense with the beautiful loudspeaker you have (BL 5). I mean is like having a Ferrari and feeding it with the cheapest gas or a bad set of tires. The difference between a music CD played through my blu-ray player and the AppleTV is huge and I don't consider myself an audiophile but I want to take advantage of the fine B&O speakers I have. Just my 2 cents.

 

I can't comment on the sound quality of the Sonos, etc... But shouldn't the Mac Mini option with digital out into the Beolab 5's using apple lossless be just as good as the CD?

 

I did this once before, but I can't remember if I experienced any difference or not.

 

In my case I would use iPads, or iPhones that I already own as the control source. Not the TV. I find it a bit silly to have to use your TV in order to be able to listen to music.

The mac mini is an option I need to buy whether I buy an BS5 or not. I need it for my bedroom, I basically want to have a TV/computer in the bedroom. I already have a Apple HD Cinema 30" screen for this use. It's going to be sort of an experiment.

So in my case, my wife loves the look of the BS9000, she don't like the idea of the BS5 at all. (I don't know why because I like the look of the control unit) I have all the bits and pieces besides the Mini. So it's a very low investment (730 euro) opposed to the BS5 at over 5000 euro, given the two are completely different things. 

 

 

Trip, I saw your response to Rookie. He states he's a long time B&O customer and has a component list that must have made at least one dealer smile..

 

Yet you do not for a second hesitate to insult and denigrate him.

 

 

Over at the "old" official site's forum, the longest thread dealt with dealer experiences - and a recurring litany from actual customers was that dealers tended to be unattractively haughty, supercilious and dismissive.

 

 

Just a thought.

@ tripenglish

i'll get back to you later ... giving some examples for what i mean ... right now i am short of time.

@ using a Beolab 5

The BL5 is very special and kind of dominating your whole system, because its' internal DAC is responsible for the sound of your system, because the ICE-Poweramps in the BL5 can only deal with analog signals. All signals are upsampled by the BL5 to 24bit/192khz before being converted to analog for the amps. In addition to that there is a DSP with 32-bit floating-point processing in front of the internal DAC too. So it is pretty pointless of what high-tech source you are attaching to them ... the BL5 is the dominator.

This physics should apply for the Beosound 5 too ... wouldn't you agree trip

But i am a Rookie ... and willing to learn from the experienced men.

Cheers

 

PS: The Olive 4 HD is available in the US since January 2010, as it is in Europa too ... you just have to fork out the money ;-)

 

soundproof:

Trip, I saw your response to Rookie. He states he's a long time B&O customer and has a component list that must have made at least one dealer smile..

Yet you do not for a second hesitate to insult and denigrate him.

Over at the "old" official site's forum, the longest thread dealt with dealer experiemces - and a recurring litany from actual customers was that dealers tended to be unattractively haughty, supercilious and dismissive.

Just a thought.

You've had better thoughts. 

Yes, Rookie, and because of the internal signal processing, if you feed them digital bits as raw data, it shouldn't differ much what source is used. But ofcourse if you feed them a compact/compressed signal such as MP3 it doesn't much matter how good the internal signal processing is, since that signal will be bad to begin with.

 

I think it's only 24bit/96khz processing though.

bayerische:

I can't comment on the sound quality of the Sonos, etc... But shouldn't the Mac Mini option with digital out into the Beolab 5's using apple lossless be just as good as the CD?

yes, a digital file is a digital file, no matter what the source is. Especially if it is lossless.
The BL5's do all the DAC work for you anyways, so the mac mini will do the job more than well enough.
I do not have the BL5 specs but I do not see any problems there. 
My mac mini is now at least 3 yrs old and the cheapest one available at the time. Certainly has no problem playing music files. I use an ipad as secondary remote next to the beo4 which works out ok for me. Even playback of video does not take a supercomputer. A good GPU and plenty of RAM are far more important especially for video playback.

bayerische:

n my case I would use iPads, or iPhones that I already own as the control source. Not the TV. I find it a bit silly to have to use your TV in order to be able to listen to music.

Fully agree with that, the iphone/ipad are providing the necessary feedback to control the system.

bayerische:

The mac mini is an option I need to buy whether I buy an BS5 or not. I need it for my bedroom, I basically want to have a TV/computer in the bedroom. I already have a Apple HD Cinema 30" screen for this use. It's going to be sort of an experiment.

If you have the cinema screen, the mac mini would be a good option.
Also, if you want to save some money there is always the refurbished ones available in the apple store.
I upgraded mine with the full ram and had the luxury of having a good deal on a SDD drive.... now it boots in literally seconds.

bayerische:

So in my case, my wife loves the look of the BS9000, she don't like the idea of the BS5 at all. (I don't know why because I like the look of the control unit) I have all the bits and pieces besides the Mini. So it's a very low investment (730 euro) opposed to the BS5 at over 5000 euro, given the two are completely different things.

I love the BS5 control unit as well. If you can get over the price and it's limited capabilities , it truly is a good performer.
It does what it has been designed to do very well, but don't ask it do more than that.
However I will never buy one for the same reason. I also do not feel like spending that much money for a solution with an outdated back end (beomaster) for which no spare parts will be available in a couple of years as this technology updates itself every 6 months.
I hope the BS5 lite (or whatever it is called) that is supposed to be launched soon will be a more flexible, but full B&O solution. 

Rookie:

@ tripenglish

i'll get back to you later ... giving some examples for what i mean ... right now i am short of time.

I look forward to it. As you may have read in my dialogue with BeoFab, I'm interested in genuinely competitive solutions to the BeoSound 5. It's by no means a perfect product, but to me seems to be moving in the best direction. Products like Olive indicate that other high-end audio companies are coming to the same conclusion that B&O did, that audio should continue to be dealt with specifically and not tossed in a memory box attached to a television. 

Rookie:

@ using a Beolab 5

The BL5 is very special and kind of dominating your whole system, because its' internal DAC is responsible for the sound of your system, because the ICE-Poweramps in the BL5 can only deal with analog signals. All signals are upsampled by the BL5 to 24bit/192khz before being converted to analog for the amps. In addition to that there is a DSP with 32-bit floating-point processing in front of the internal DAC too. So it is pretty pointless of what high-tech source you are attaching to them ... the BL5 is the dominator.

This physics should apply for the Beosound 5 too ... wouldn't you agree trip

But i am a Rookie ... and willing to learn from the experienced men.

I'm sure you have plenty to teach as well. In my cyclical bursts of participation I tend to focus on offering a dealer's perspective which, of course, includes much of the argumentation I would use if someone visited my showroom. I'm generally perceived to be zealously pro-B&O, which in philosophical terms I am, but I also withhold a great deal of criticism on the forums since the anti-B&O sentiment is particularly well represented.  

Rookie:

PS: The Olive 4 HD is available in the US since January 2010, as it is in Europa too ... you just have to fork out the money ;-)

Interesting. Their website lists the 06HD as "pre-order" a term which is usually reserved for items yet to be released. If it's already been out they might use the term "back-ordered" to describe the stock situation. 

TripEnglish:

Puncher:

It's a particular bugbear of mine that folk speak of the BS5 as if it doesn't need a "PC in the corner" when if fact it most certainly does (and a big ugly one at that) - the BM5.

If Andreas wanted to he could (more easily) hide his Mac Mini, and listen to high quality, lossless music, via hs BL5's whilst navigating his collection from the comfort of any chair in his listening room (or entire house for that matter) using a dedicated iPad if he so desired while hanging onto a sizeable chunk of change. The only thing he'd miss would be MOTS, which, while it may have smarter algorithms when processing the content, I've yet to hear any convincing argument that it's generated playlists are any more listenable than that of Genius or any other such auto playlist generator.

The only justification I can see for a BS5/BM5 system is if you absolutely adore the looks of the BS5, and in that case fair do's, it's the device for you.

Puncher, Puncher, Puncher (shakes head and smiles in a gentle fatherly way).

There are many justifications for a BeoSound 5 and they're no different or less numerous than any Bang & Olufsen product ever invented. Had the internet been around in its current form when the BeoSound 9000 came out there would no doubt have been a ravaging to best anything directed at the BeoSound 5. THOUSANDS FOR A SIX DISC CHANGER!!! HOW DAAAAARE THEY!!! THE UNMITIGATED GAUL OF THOSE DANISH VILLAINS!!!! DON'T THEY REALIZE SONY CAN STORE 400 CDS FOR MERE HUNDREDS!!! GRAB YOUR TORCHES AND FOLLOW ME TO STRUER!!! 

For certain people, there was a point to be made then and a point to be made now. But those "certain people" are not Bang & Olufsen clients in the sense that "client" means "person who buys things." They're fans, ex-clients, and amateur internet pundits. They're people who are not our intended audience and their "input" has value only in so much as their values, needs, and goals are in line with actual and potential clients. It's like reading a steakhouse review by a vegetarian. Is the steak terrible or is the idea of steaks terrible? 

Then there is the B&O client for whom a stable, beautiful, high performance solution is just what the doctor ordered. This client wants music throughout the home, ease of use, a single interface language, a high level of service, and understands that better things cost more. That's life on planet Earth. Welcome aboard. 

If Sonos suits your needs, you're not our audience. Having a system that's novel and functional in one narrow way is not acceptable. Sonos offers access to several sources, all of which sound terrible. There is no integration possible with larger systems and a unique remote or app must be used to talk to the Sonos. A switched on PC is a hidden cost, unlike the BeoMaster 5 which is included, so the Sonos is also not as cheap as you'd think and after you buy it, and then a computer, and then still get rotten sound and limited control you realize that you've waited in line for 3 hours for a free ice-cream cone. (But you can buy DACs for all the ZP90s they say! - Right, more hidden costs. Just how much money are you willing to flush down the toilet?)

B&O doesn't claim to be what it isn't. We're not for everyone. We're expensive. We're hand made. We're designed with clear intentions and ideas on usability. We offer our clients what they ask us for and if the nameless, faceless, chorus of complaints doesn't find resonance with us, well, what did they expect?

I personally find the BeoSound 5 to be the best option and my main quarrel with it vanishes with the Beo6 for link-room browsing. I have completely abandoned the use of Kaleidescape at home for music and even my wife favors the BeoSound 5 (she won't even load music onto her iPhone because it's "so complicated"). It meets every last one of our needs without having to encounter any road-blocks in usability or poor sound quality and integrates seamlessly with our existing televisions and link system. Why would we even consider anything else? 

 

 

 

I was going to let it slide but seeing as Soundproof has picked up the point -

Your continuing implication that only rich folk "get it" and that the brand isn't for "certain people" is at best patronising. If the store in which you are employed were based in the UK your biggest stock item would likely be Tumbleweed.

I can see the beauty in some product, I can see engineering excellence in others - the special product are where they coincide - IMO the BS5/BM5 combo isn't one of them. I said it at the time (and it's equally true now) to be a killer product the BS5 had to be wireless, i.e. today's MCP.

Rookie:

PS: The Olive 4 HD is available in the US since January 2010, as it is in Europa too ...

Wow in Europa? Wouldn't want to go there to fetch it though... 

Europa

Sorry, a stupid remark, but couldn't resist. 

The challenge of feeding BL5s with a digital signal isn't difficult. One can consider a Y-link, but there are better ways. 

It's a shame that the BeoSystem 3 doesn't have coax s/pdif out, for BL5s, as it has a number of digital-IN options, and therefore could have served as a B&O-compatible master unit that sent a digital signal to the speakers, while also correctly processing signals from other digital sources, including non-B&O.

Because of that, I decided not to buy a BS3.

I recently had two enthusiast visiting, and they were a little surprised that no matter which source we listened to, I didn't have to change anything, all they needed do was press play to the cd-player/Mac mini/Beocord/Surround source, etc., and the music/movie just began. I've exploited a feature in the BL5s, as well as a Beomaster 7000 and a third-party soundcard.

The BL5s get their signal from three different sources: Powerlink; Line-IN; coax s/pdif IN.

Since the speakers give priority to an s/pdif signal if they detect one, I know that anything which goes from the soundcard will get routed to the speakers; and as the connection from the card to the speakers is via s/pdif, whenever I send something to the card it will "take over" the speakers.

And here's a neat trick. The BL5s open up their s/pdif when you press CD on your remote, even if there isn't a B&O s/pdif source connected to them, as long as you have the Powerlink cables running from the Beomaster I'm using to the speakers. As the speakers give priority to s/pdif, they ignore the fact that nothing is coming down the Powerlink apart from commands - and think the s/pdif from the sound card is a B&O source.

I'm therefore in Option 0, using B&O commands, with a Beomaster connected to the BL5s, but with access to a number of sources that have been routed through the soundcard, which has both Firewire, Toslink Optical and coax s/pdif digital INs, in addition to a number of analog connections.

Works very well - and I'm controlling everything from an iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch. Am using a Beo4 in addition, but could discard that. I like the heft of that remote, though.

Soundproof, is it so that the BL5's don't listen to the SPDIF at AUX?

I used to have the speakers in Option 1 - press RADIO, and they would take in whatever came through LINE-IN, and if there was an s/pdif signal, that would take presedence, even if something was coming down the RCA LINE-IN.

Then I got to thinking about the s/pdif out on my Beogram CD6500 and the s/pdif out on the BeoSound 9000. I knew that if you ran a an s/pdif cable from BS9000 to the BL5s, the s/pdif is what the BL5s use.

And then the light-bulb came on. I could trick the speakers into thinking it was a B&O CD source, when it wasn't. I could go to Option 0, use a BeoMaster, and run the s/pdif from the soundcard to the speakers, and the speakers would "think" that they were connected to a Beogram CD or BS9000, etc.

 

Works perfectly, and I get feedback as to level from the Beomaster, which is connected to and controlling the speakers with Powerlink. (ON/OFF, Volume)

 

Soundcard may sound confusing. It can look like this - the Impact Twin is the new version of the Konnekt 24D I'm using, from the same company, Think of it as a multi-YLINK, running a lot of sources to the speakers:

http://www.tcelectronic.com/impacttwin.asp

Puncher:

I was going to let it slide but seeing as Soundproof has picked up the point -

Your continuing implication that only rich folk "get it" and that the brand isn't for "certain people" is at best patronising. If the store in which you are employed were based in the UK your biggest stock item would likely be Tumbleweed.

I can see the beauty in some product, I can see engineering excellence in others - the special product are where they coincide - IMO the BS5/BM5 combo isn't one of them. I said it at the time (and it's equally true now) to be a killer product the BS5 had to be wireless, i.e. today's MCP.

If claiming that a company whose basic surround sound system starts between $15-20k is designed for a wealthy audience somehow offends you, then I'm sorry. I could not have foreseen how basic factual information could shake someone to their very core. I suppose we should also lament Ferrari's abandonment of the every-man and pretend that coats aren't made for people in cold climates. All the better to avoid hurt feelings. 

If you don't care for the BeoSound 5, that's fine, but you don't have to repeat yourself for my sake. It's not the best solution for everyone. Probably not even the best solution for most people. I take issue only with claims of fact that obfuscate its capabilities or bestow imaginary capabilities on other products.  

I chime in because I'm a dealer with a stake in the company as well as an opinion. I have a broad experience with hundreds of clients in hundreds of situations and can generally offer sound advice to perspective buyers and people with technical questions. Will my advice generally favor B&O? Of course. I'm a dealer. It doesn't make what I say correct or incorrect and on threads like these my input is primarily opinion based as opposed to a thread where someone asks how many PL sockets a stereo has. People are free to weigh my advice however they choose and clearly some have judged it to be lighter than air. Again, with enough raspberry schnapps I've managed to sleep through the night. (-;

On the specific point of the BeoSound 5 as a wireless device. I have to admit that in the first few months I, too, believed that and it was my assumption that had it not been gestating in the pipeline for so many years it might very well be wireless. As I've lived with the product, though, my opinion has changed. Here's why:

Size Mostly it's to do with the size. It's a lot like Steve Jobs explaining that there's a sort of "sweet spot" for tablet interfaces. If you make them too small, certain things don't work on them. Too large and they become cumbersome. My biggest complaint with the iPad is that there's no comfortable way to hold the device without some sort of stand-case, which (as someone who studied design before becoming a snake-oil salesman) means that the design is inherently flawed, or incomplete at best. The BeoSound 5 is roughly the same size and to be mobile it would have to be perpetually balanced and situated to be interacted with. 

Actual Usage v. Assumed Usage This I wouldn't have understood until the product had lived a while in the real world. When you play around with the BeoSound 5, the interface is really neat. Even if you don't think it's the best way to do things, it's at least interesting and invites you to spend time exploring. The assumption is that you're going to use it a lot. The reality, however, is that once you acclimate yourself to the interface and establish familiarity you start interfacing with it less even if you "use" it more. This is because you may spend 2 minutes of less choosing a couple of songs or finding a radio station and hours listening to what you've selected. This means that you're not playing DJ every few minutes. And that means that the device's mobility is not nearly as crucial a factor as it otherwise would be. 

Speakers plug into what? I think that people roundly agree that wireless speakers are not good speakers at this point in time. So what would we plug them into with a wireless BeoSound 5? The assumption there would be that there would still be some sort of BeoMaster 5 and a wired dock. Not a horrible solution, but that adds to the cost when the benefit may not be worth the trouble. 

Beo6 This is the final piece of the puzzle for me. Even after you establish that the BeoSound 5 is not the best companion to move around the house with, you're then left with vacancy in the ecosystem. Link rooms are even worse than before when there are thousands of albums or radio stations to choose from. The Beo6 fills the gap very nicely and essentially replicates a high-end version of Sonos (a system which has many admirable qualities despite its price-sensitive execution). At the end of the day I'd rather be walking around with a Beo6 than a BeoSound 5!

 

TripEnglish:

Puncher:

I was going to let it slide but seeing as Soundproof has picked up the point -

Your continuing implication that only rich folk "get it" and that the brand isn't for "certain people" is at best patronising. If the store in which you are employed were based in the UK your biggest stock item would likely be Tumbleweed.

I can see the beauty in some product, I can see engineering excellence in others - the special product are where they coincide - IMO the BS5/BM5 combo isn't one of them. I said it at the time (and it's equally true now) to be a killer product the BS5 had to be wireless, i.e. today's MCP.

If claiming that a company whose basic surround sound system starts between $15-20k is designed for a wealthy audience somehow offends you, then I'm sorry. I could not have foreseen how basic factual information could shake someone to their very core. I suppose we should also lament Ferrari's abandonment of the every-man and pretend that coats aren't made for people in cold climates. All the better to avoid hurt feelings. 

If you don't care for the BeoSound 5, that's fine, but you don't have to repeat yourself for my sake. It's not the best solution for everyone. Probably not even the best solution for most people. I take issue only with claims of fact that obfuscate its capabilities or bestow imaginary capabilities on other products.  

I chime in because I'm a dealer with a stake in the company as well as an opinion. I have a broad experience with hundreds of clients in hundreds of situations and can generally offer sound advice to perspective buyers and people with technical questions. Will my advice generally favor B&O? Of course. I'm a dealer. It doesn't make what I say correct or incorrect and on threads like these my input is primarily opinion based as opposed to a thread where someone asks how many PL sockets a stereo has. People are free to weigh my advice however they choose and clearly some have judged it to be lighter than air. Again, with enough raspberry schnapps I've managed to sleep through the night. (-;

On the specific point of the BeoSound 5 as a wireless device. I have to admit that in the first few months I, too, believed that and it was my assumption that had it not been gestating in the pipeline for so many years it might very well be wireless. As I've lived with the product, though, my opinion has changed. Here's why:

Size Mostly it's to do with the size. It's a lot like Steve Jobs explaining that there's a sort of "sweet spot" for tablet interfaces. If you make them too small, certain things don't work on them. Too large and they become cumbersome. My biggest complaint with the iPad is that there's no comfortable way to hold the device without some sort of stand-case, which (as someone who studied design before becoming a snake-oil salesman) means that the design is inherently flawed, or incomplete at best. The BeoSound 5 is roughly the same size and to be mobile it would have to be perpetually balanced and situated to be interacted with. 

Actual Usage v. Assumed Usage This I wouldn't have understood until the product had lived a while in the real world. When you play around with the BeoSound 5, the interface is really neat. Even if you don't think it's the best way to do things, it's at least interesting and invites you to spend time exploring. The assumption is that you're going to use it a lot. The reality, however, is that once you acclimate yourself to the interface and establish familiarity you start interfacing with it less even if you "use" it more. This is because you may spend 2 minutes of less choosing a couple of songs or finding a radio station and hours listening to what you've selected. This means that you're not playing DJ every few minutes. And that means that the device's mobility is not nearly as crucial a factor as it otherwise would be. 

Speakers plug into what? I think that people roundly agree that wireless speakers are not good speakers at this point in time. So what would we plug them into with a wireless BeoSound 5? The assumption there would be that there would still be some sort of BeoMaster 5 and a wired dock. Not a horrible solution, but that adds to the cost when the benefit may not be worth the trouble. 

Beo6 This is the final piece of the puzzle for me. Even after you establish that the BeoSound 5 is not the best companion to move around the house with, you're then left with vacancy in the ecosystem. Link rooms are even worse than before when there are thousands of albums or radio stations to choose from. The Beo6 fills the gap very nicely and essentially replicates a high-end version of Sonos (a system which has many admirable qualities despite its price-sensitive execution). At the end of the day I'd rather be walking around with a Beo6 than a BeoSound 5!

 

 

It's not the fact that there are targeted at the wealthy that I object to, it's the implication that only they "get" the product or concept that I can't accept. While it is undoubtedly expensive it should also be desirable and aspirational - I don't see that in the BS/BM5 combo, whereas I do in other B&O product. If I repeat myself it's because you continually play the "it's only the wealthy that understand" card.

On the wireless front - again we have the confusion over the BS5 and the BM5. I'm not nor ever did say the BM5 should be wireless, only the BS5, a la MCP. I've had an MCP for 30 years and still enjoy it on the coffee table, or on the sofa beside me or sometimes in the dining room. A 2009 MCP with the display and control of the BS5 would have been a real winner. The size issue isn't an issue at all, B&O could have reaffirmed their design prowess with a nicely weighted, balanced and tactile unit and made a real statement. They didn't - personally I see it as a huge missed opportunity.

soundproof:

Then I got to thinking about the s/pdif out on my Beogram CD6500 and the s/pdif out on the BeoSound 9000. I knew that if you ran a an s/pdif cable from BS9000 to the BL5s, the s/pdif is what the BL5s use.

That is a feature you do not get if beosound 9000 is "masterlinked" to a BeoVision 8, because I guess BeoVision 8 dont have data link

Puncher:

It's not the fact that there are targeted at the wealthy that I object to, it's the implication that only they "get" the product or concept that I can't accept. While it is undoubtedly expensive it should also be desirable and aspirational - I don't see that in the BS/BM5 combo, whereas I do in other B&O product. If I repeat myself it's because you continually play the "it's only the wealthy that understand" card.

On the wireless front - again we have the confusion over the BS5 and the BM5. I'm not nor ever did say the BM5 should be wireless, only the BS5, a la MCP. I've had an MCP for 30 years and still enjoy it on the coffee table, or on the sofa beside me or sometimes in the dining room. A 2009 MCP with the display and control of the BS5 would have been a real winner. The size issue isn't an issue at all, B&O could have reaffirmed their design prowess with a nicely weighted, balanced and tactile unit and made a real statement. They didn't - personally I see it as a huge missed opportunity.

I really am sorry if that's what's come through. When I talk about "our customers" I'm merely referring to people who are just that: our customers. They are not all wealthy. Many who buy in with smaller systems, including headphones & BeoSound 1s also "get it." When I refer to getting it and not getting it, I'm not using wealth as a measuring stick at all, only the understanding that if you care about something, you're likely to have higher standards, different goals, and/or an overall different approach than if you don't. I, for example, don't care much about food. I'd just as soon eat pizza every day as have some gustatory revelation. Sit me next to a chef or a gourmand and they're likely to look at my taste for burgers and cokes as some sort of character defect. That's fine! All I'm saying is that I also don't go onto foodie forums and talk about how a couple bags of crisps fillya' up just the same as duck confit.

So, you see, "getting it" is not a commentary on anything but a person's interest or lack there of in a given subject. B&O is not just an AV company, but also one of just a handful of genuine design-driven companies on the planet. Most companies that used to be guided by designers have vanished or reorganized. Braun used to make some of the most beautiful ID out there. Now they're indistinguishable from their peers. Now they have peers. So it's often through that lens that view B&O and possibly why there's detectable emotion in my part of the discourse. When a company relegates design to decoration and afterthought, they lose the ability to advocate for the user. They become feature peddlers without a concise vision of how their products play a role in people's lives. It's still possible for designers to get it wrong, but they'll never produce a product that's fundamentally empty of meaning.

So even when B&O releases what I personally believe to be a dud, it doesn't mean that I'm going to go out and buy Sony's "version" of it and that's sort of the prevailing wisdom. You'll notice that with a product like the Olive, I'm a lot more open to addressing it as a serious competitor, because it clearly is a serious competitor. It was likely made with a great deal of thought and consideration and is also aimed at a serious consumer of music and so takes their needs and goals into account. But if BMW make a car that you think misses the mark, you're more likely to look at Merc or Audi than Chevy.  

The more I read this thread the more I want a Beosound 5.

To me it seems like a lot of you guys in this thread has already "converted" to the big Apple. You're talking about what you can do with your iPhone, iPad, iPod, Apple-tv, Airplay, etc.. -or Sonos -or whatever. And why You wil not buy B&O anymore (except, perhaps, from speakers and maybe a TV).

Well -we're some people who don't have an iPhone (I'm doing fine with my HTC smartphone), and are doing fine with a PC instead of a Mac -and don't have to listen to music anytime, anywhere. (Have you tried to enjoy the silence now and then )
And guess what...I can live with the possibilities that B&O offers in the home. I do not need to  play music from my smartphone on my Audio-system at home (although I can do it) ...I see no problem in playing a CD now and then, instead of spending hours on ripping all of my collection to a computer/server/mediacenter. And yes -I do listen to Net-radio now and then -and I download music. I just don't want to throw away all of my CD's -like I don't want to throw away my books just because we have e-books. But -that's just me...Call me old-fashioned.

It's fine that you love all your Apple-gear and that you have made your own wireless home solution with that. But -what do you expect B&O to come up with then???
Seems like whatever product B&O will come up with from now on, Your response will be: "I can do that with my Apple/"i-whatever" already...Why should I buy this?"

Sorry -but I am not a "tech-nerd". What the f... is "PUC"? And "connecting ZP90 via Spdif" is jibberish to me. Maybe B&O just appeals to us who are not tech-nerds and just want a A/V system that  is easy to set up.

And @bayerische who started it all: Watch out!!! First your wife want to get rid of the CD's -the next thing is, that she want to get rid of your speakers in favor of some small ones, that you can hardly see (or hear).