While exploring the new Beosound 8 I realized that there is a small but important change in the feature-list of B&O products.

The wonderful moving parts, that always was a part of the fascination of B&O seems to vanish?

Let me explain which moving parts I mean:

Beosound 2300-3200: Moving Door

Beosound 9000: sliding CD-Player

Beovision 7: DVD-Player-Door and DVD "Holder" (+ Stand)

Beosound 3:  Antenna (I so love the Antenna sliding out :-)  )

Beolab 5: Microfon

Well - I think you all know what I mean. 

And now look at newer products:

New Beosound 8: No moving parts (but lets wait for another day - and see then)

Beovision 10: only the stand is Moving

Beovision 8 - no moving parts

Beosound 5: you have to move the parts by yourself ;-)

Is this nothing worth to further think about - or is there a shift in the product-design?

 

 

I am all for rethinking the design paradigm, new fresh, bold. However, I can't agree more with Tim. There was something about the mechanical magic that is lost.

It's not just B&O, in some perhaps lesser way this happens with others. Consider the original Ipods with the wheel as compared to the almost complete absense of anything mechanical on an Ipod Touch. And that which is "mechanical" ie. buttons are certainly not very interesting.

Things mechanical add complexity I know. But look at the button placement of a BM3000. Buttons were magically hidden, and that lid mechanism was so very fluid. It was just plain elegant. I actually began to miss the magical mechanisms with the BM4500. Consider also the BC9500: no buttons except those hidden behind the glass. But the mechannical magic was in the doors.

I will admit to being an admirer of the mechanical (and electronic) magic of the BS5.

I was thinking the same thing... but on the other hand, what's there to move if it was going to? Maybe a compartment that opens that you plug your iPhone/iPad into?

 

That's the problem with digital media - no moving parts. The positive side is that there is less to break over time.

Although I do agree, there doesn't seem to be the need for movable parts in a digital age. No physical media, no movable parts.

However there is the movable acoustic lenses in the Audis, AMG's, Astons and now BMW.

I would like to see a home speaker between the BL9 and BL5 with a retractable hidden acoustic lens. The lens i'm sure we all agree is a huge benifit in sound but a large proportion of people don't like the architectual look. As a piece of furniture when not in use it would look more pleasing to the eye if the lens was hidden. I'm sure many wives of B&O customers would prefer this!

Well, I'm not the wife of a B&O customer. I am the customer himself. The magical retractable lens. That's the kind of thinking that I we need. Form and function. Or is it function and form. Uh oh...

 

I'm sure many of you read about Steve Jobs' views on focus groups, in fact it may have been discussed somewhere else in the forum. I'm curious, as to how important focus groups were to Jacob Jensen or David Lewis? I don't mean in terms of testing the sound of a loudspeaker for example, but of the pure design aspect of some of their work. Are some of the less stunning designs a result of focus group-think?

 

 

Every time I open my Serene I think about this.

I think B&O found a new way of doing things with the BeoSound 5. Like Hungedu mentioned above, making digital media physical can be difficult. Even though the BS5 isn't motorized, they wanted the user to be able to interact with it and the media. The magic here is in the lever and wheels, perhaps a new way forward.

IMO, the magic now happens in the software side of things - ever since home media went 95% digital, B&O have had to re-focus their efforts on the software back-end of their products. How can a BeoSound 5 be mechanical? It practically is as it stands, just mostly on a screen...

The BeoVision 10 is no less 'mechanical' than most of B&O's other TVs. BeoVision 5, 4, 6, 3, 1, LX, MX, all of these TVs only had moving bases. Heck the Avant only had a motorised base too unless you loaded in a DVD, which wasn't exactly all that exciting as it was.

But it would still be a cool mechanical feature, if the wall bracket also was moveble with the remote.

I know that you can buy it aftermaket, like at STB. But what happent with the inovation at Bang & Olufsen. And by the way, the bracket that STB makes is 12 cm thick.... not a cool thing for a thin TV like the BV10, to hang 17 cm out from the wall, and it dont use the Motorized stand plug, so you can not remote it with Beo4... only the Beo5

You seem to have forgotten that BV 4-103 masterpiece...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5XQkfaUAuU

 

 

Cheaper and faster to market is the primary reason.

Bang is now a business, not run by purists as of old.

I think we all forgot about bv4 103" because of the prizetag... But great input.. BV4 103" is what Bang and Olufsen is all about...

Not a "need to have", But a "want to have" that develops into a "must have"

I think there is no doubt B&O has always cared more about the overall experience (i.e. tactile response, the sound of clicks produced when pressing buttons and visual feedback etc..) than that of 'moving parts'. Where there has been need for mechanical movement, they have always strived to achieve this with elegance and a certain mystique. However, I do not think it is in B&O's philosophy to consider such mechanical movement above what makes a B&O what it is - If it doesn't improve the over all experience, or it doesn't fit in with the design then it will be seen as not necessary.

What good would a bit of automated movement add to the BS5 for instance?

Step1:

What good would a bit of automated movement add to the BS5 for instance?

Although not automated the BS5 is very mechanical in the hands on operation with the control wheels, thus having the wow factor IMO.

Magic Movement used to be one of the B&O brand essentials - and you do find it in the acoustic lenses in the car audio system for the Audi, as a feature of more recent products. I know the first BV8s weren't supposed to get the electronic curtain, which was an incomprehensible decision. They did work it into the Serene, and many have proposed that it would have been nice if the tweeter on the BL9 had been motorized, rotating into action and then being hidden away when not in use (probably good for little fingers.)

But adding such features also adds cost, and that may have been a consideration.

Soundproof is right on. Meeting a price-point was a higher priority with the BS8 than with many other products. While it's still at the higher end of the market, it represents good value for money and is competitive with speakers that cost significantly more that it does. I have no complaints about it anyways.

beo-ap:

I'm sure many of you read about Steve Jobs' views on focus groups, in fact it may have been discussed somewhere else in the forum. I'm curious, as to how important focus groups were to Jacob Jensen or David Lewis? I don't mean in terms of testing the sound of a loudspeaker for example, but of the pure design aspect of some of their work. Are some of the less stunning designs a result of focus group-think?

I think I've read that Lewis does NOT use focus groups.  I would assume the same for JJ.  In the past, B&O has been attacked for this (no focus groups?!?!  not close enough to the customer!!!).  There's probably some truth to that - a focus group might have got an AUX input on the BS3.  Then again, they might have cluttered it up with all kinds of wizzy-bang gotta have features... Personally, I'm more of the opinion that design should be left to professionals.

Stan

If Henry Ford had used focus groups, he would have tried to breed a faster horse, instead he built a car.

soundproof:

If Henry Ford had used focus groups, he would have tried to breed a faster horse, instead he built a car.

soundproof:

If Henry Ford had used focus groups, he would have tried to breed a faster horse, instead he built a car.

Sounds true, but it's a logical fallacy: He would only have tried to breed faster horses if focus groups stood as the sole tool in the box.

No serious manufacturer/designer uses focus groups as their sole tool, just like an architect doesn't just do what the customer thinks is right before the design is even started - that is, you have to listen to customers, but bring something to the table yourself.

Focus groups can both be bad and good, it's how the tool "focus groups" are implemented into the design phase that matters.

 

Electrified:

soundproof:

If Henry Ford had used focus groups, he would have tried to breed a faster horse, instead he built a car.

Sounds true, but it's a logical fallacy: He would only have tried to breed faster horses if focus groups stood as the sole tool in the box.

No serious manufacturer/designer uses focus groups as their sole tool, just like an architect doesn't just do what the customer thinks is right before the design is even started - that is, you have to listen to customers, but bring something to the table yourself.

Focus groups can both be bad and good, it's how the tool "focus groups" are implemented into the design phase that matters.

Not true. Sorry. The less input from amateurs the better. 

"You an search the parks in all your cities, you'll find no statues of committees." 

I have always loved the visual and physical interaction of B&O's moving parts. I'd probably say it's that which has kept my real interest over the years. It made me tick, gave me pleasure and encouraged me to purchase other items that had no moving parts like TV's.

Maybe everything nowdays is software based and requires no moving parts. It's a shame - I always loved to be greeted by the movement of my hifi. It made it special.

TripEnglish:

Not true. Sorry. The less input from amateurs the better. 

Noone said focus groups should consist of "amateurs", nor that everything the focus group says should be done, should be implemented. As I said, it's a tool.  You know, just like B&O uses "listening panels" which, if anything, is a focus group that have learned how to put what they hear into words. And remember, it's them "amateurs" that walk into a shop and buy their stuff that are the bread and butter of B&O. I'm pretty sure they can't survive if they only sold to audio, broadcast, and pro "film people", even if their top two speakers are excellent.

TripEnglish:

"You an search the parks in all your cities, you'll find no statues of committees." 

More fallatious quoting

The problems with taking quotes like that and put them forward as facts is that they're more often than not taken out of context, they seldomly proves what the poster tries to prove, and they're usually completely fallatious in the context. Instead of quoting such drivel, use arguments instead. Posting a claim and then "backing it up" with an out-of-context quote, is really nothing more than mindless parroting.

But boy, does those quotes sound like they actually have some truth in them, don't they. I bet we can find numerous quotes in the spirit of "Experts. We don't need experts, we are our own experts" and so on. That doesn't mean it's true, nor that everyone is an expert. It's a political statement, just like your quote, Trip.

 

 

 

You like to hear yourself talk. The internet is glad to have you.

I remember the sliding cassette player in my dad's Beosystem 5000. And the tuner control, which looked the same when closed, but had a completely different movement when opened. Not to mention the CD player 5000, which also had its own movement. This system got my love for B&O going.

Then the BeoCenter 9500, the seamlessly moving panels for the cassette player and the CD player. The rotating stand of the MX6000. The true magic of the BeoSound 3000. The rising of the BeoLink 7000 (it still creates WOWs from ANYONE in my house who sees it in action!), the DVD player of the BeoVision 7. 

Yes, I miss the moving stuff as well. Gladly, most of it is in my house, so if I just make sure it doesn't break, I can enjoy from it for many years to come ;-).

Maybe we should make a list of the top 3 greatest magical moving parts on B&O products?

I'll start off:

1. BeoLink 7000 rising up when placed on a table

2. Glass doors on the BeoSound 3000

3. DVD player on the Avant: it just feels soooo good!

Who's next?

TripEnglish:

You like to hear yourself talk. The internet is glad to have you.

If all else fails: Maybe ad hominems will do