Recently I have acquired a B&O 12" ST/P pickup arm, mounted on the wide version Thorens 124 armboard. 

This leads me to believe, that it might be the remains of a Boegram 3000/Thorens 124. Are there any of you forum members, who can tell me anything further about that particular version of the Boegram 3000, i.e. were there different versions of the 12" pickup arm, was the compo supplied from B&O ready to roll or was it made on special order only, rarety and value of the arm and so on.

Regards

Merc 

The 12" arm is relatively rare though at least three of us have one - four including you! These have all started life as Beograms with the 9" arm though. Therefore they are not that rare. As far as I know, there was only one type of 12" arm and it takes the SP1/2 cartridge which uses a different tracking angle to the later SP6/7 etc. This does limit its use somewhat though one can now get a decent stylus from Axel. The Beogram 3000 seems to have been a mainland Europe product and it would seem to be relatively numerous. However the 12" version is definitely unusual - the 12" arm was able to be bought separately as were the other versions of this arm - ST/L and ST/A - and were fiited to other makes of decks.

If you want to sell it, I dare say you will get a jolly good price!  

I can confirm "the jolly good price." I just paid a nice price for such an arm, actually an unused one, which I will have mounted on a Beogram 3000 Thorens.

The P stands for Professional, and the proposal was that these would be used by sound and music professionals, who wanted an optimal tracking angle, with a minimum of distortion from tracking error. The disadvantage of the longer arm is that it requires the wider armboard, for which reason they were less popular with people who wanted to be able to place their sound systems with ease. For most practical purposes 9" tonearms do the job excellently, but the 12" tonearm looks quite spectacular on the BG3000 Thorens.

Some very nice photos at the bottom of this link: http://beocentral.com/beogram3000thorens

If you're not going to be using it, I'm sure that Frede Kristensen will help you get a good price for it, as he restores these decks, and would probably be able to help you find a buyer for it.

Your theory about "the remains of a BG3000 Thorens" is quite likely correct. A number of these have been slaughtered by people looking for a good Thorens 124 Mk. II.

Hello Doctor & soundproof,

Thanks for your time and information ">

I'm pretty sure, my 12 inch ST/P is as supplied from B&O i.e. not a rebuild product. Both the overall appearance of the arm, and the armboard suggests that. 

I meant to upload some pictures of the arm, but I haven't been able to find out, how it is done, and I don't find it discribed anywhere. I'll keep trying.

In the meantime, and if I promise not to tell your wifes "> , could you make an indication of how jolly good price we are talking about??

Regards

Merc

Go to options and use the Add/Update function to upload images. There's a 500kb size restriction.

I don't think there's any reason to suspect your arm is not B&O, is your armboard a wide rectangle or with a "shoulder" as in the boards on the link above?

The armboard is of a rectangle shape.

Bang & Olufssen have never produced a Beogram 3000 with a 12" tonearm. This is my opinion. I see 2 reasons for this ’statement:

The Beogram 3000 is delivered with a lid and I have never seen any lids for a 12” tonearm produced by B&O. B&O always supply turntables with a lid.

The finish of this armboard is not Bang & Olufsen and is is not the quality (painting and ‘the kind of wood’ used for quality armboard’s produced later by Schopper AG.

I think the famous 12” Bang & Olufsen tonearm is mounted on a ‘homemade’ armboard.

But this do not change the rareness of the tonearm of course

/Frede

Congratulations with a nice ST/P! If you'd posted a little earlier I would have been in the market for it, but I found one elsewhere. Send Frede a PM and he'll be able to tell you what it's worth, as well as help you find a buyer who will put it to good use, if you're interested in selling.

The armboard itself looks quite homemade. It would have been interesting to know more about the turntable this comes from, whether it was from a Beogram 3000 Thorens, or just a tonearm/board assembled for a "standard" Thorens 124.

Thank you all, for your time and effort educating me. Great with all these informations.  And as some of you have mentioned, about anything that could go wrong in the manufacture of that armboard,  -  really did go wrong!! But as Frede has pointed out, the armboard isn't the main issue.

Now it is up to me to choose between the following 2 options: I can keep the ST/P and go out and find myself af Beogram 3000/Thorens 124 to build a complete machine,  -  or I may pass on the ST/P and let somebody else do the finding .">

I think I'll post a PM to Frede, and see what he can come up with.

Thank you all

Regards/Merc

A picture of a B&O 12" plint for Thorens TD 124 (Beogram 3000)
I had the plint in my collection until ½ year ago (I sold to an another Danish collector)
I believe it was an original B&O - it looks very original to me.
The lift came from Ortofon

And another picture from 1961 showing the mixerpult (made by BOFA (B&O)) from the Danish "Pirat" radio Mercur. It's a little unsharp but I think you can see 2 x TD 124 with 12" arm

Regards
Per H

My comments.

Bofa was a Bang & Olufsen dept. delivering prof. equipment for cinemas, radio stations a.m.

The Radio Merkur Thorens TD124 is the MKI version (Radio Merkur 1958 – 1962) and it is very possible B&O have delivered a Thorens TD 124 MKI in this period with the prof. 12” tonearm. This was perhaps what the tonearm was developed for, and the picture above shows the fact.

The picture of the B&O 12” tonearm on the extended armboard could be from such a delivery from B&O, but the lift --- I have never seen this lift on anything else from B&O ?

The point in this thread to link a B&O delivery of the 12” tonearm with extended armboard for the Beogram 3000 plint. This is for me still not likely.

B&O have always been very precise to follow a concept. The concept of Beogram 3000 with Thorens TD 124 MKII was a product with the 9” tonearm, B&O Beogram 3000 plint and the B&O lid. The Beogram 3000 was only sold in 1968.

I have all the B&O main catalogs and all the dealer handbooks of the period and there are no pictures or description of the possibility to buy an armboard with a 12” tone for Beogram 3000.

I think it is much more possible some non B&O could have offered this possibility. The 12” prof. tonearm was sold to other companies of course.

Well again – this is my opinion. It would be very interesting if the ‘link’ exists between Beogram 3000 and the 12” tonearm / armboard.

By the way have anyone a picture or catalog showing the Thorens TD 124 MKII in a Tandberg plint?

/Frede

A quick note ......

The above has been confirmed by B&O last week.

/Frede