Just getting to know my recently acquired BV 5000 panels and thought I'd re-ignite an ancient debate about the relative merits of these two speakers...

I've been testing them against each other using a fully-serviced Beomaster 8000 and a Beogram CDX. I would wager that this amp is superior to either the Beolab 150/200 or the Beolab 5000 found appended to the Beolab Penta and Beolab 5000 respectively.

First thoughts are pretty much what others have said on here before, in that the Pentas have superior bass but are a little 'muddy'. The Beovox 5000s have more clarity but lack a little bass (admittedly they're not wall-mounted at the moment). When I switch in a separate Cona connected to the Beomaster 8000, the bass improves significantly (a bit like Evan's set up), but not sure I'm going to hang onto the Cona beyond the short-term.

Next test is to compare them using the 1960s Beolab 5000 amp I recently had serviced by Martin, but that's for another day.

Got to say though that the Beovox/Beolab 5000s are by far and away the best looking speakers produced by B&O :)

It does depend on where one sits with Pentas. The tweeter is set at sitting level and is much the same as that in the 5000. The 5000 is indeed beautiful but was not a success for B&O and lasted in the range for only a short time. I guess limited placement options were a large part of this.

The Beomaster 8000 is definitely a better amp than the other amplifiers in bald terms - when it is fully working - it drifts out of spec alarmingly quickly due to capacitor problems even after replacement - but the Beolab 5000 amplifier (speakers) obviously is calibrated for the beovox speaker and has the bass lift designed to work on signal strength around the 1000Hz mark.

I would say that the 8000s are good candidates for most beautiful speaker IMHO.

I always thought the premise with the panels was that, when hung on the wall, they would act as if radiating into a 2pi environment (all sound in front of the speaker), avoiding (mostly, anyway) the transition into a 4pi radiation characteristic (the longer wavelengths of lower frequencies wrapping around the back of the speaker) like a floorstanding speaker suffers from. This is one of my few criticisms of B&O speakers - it seems that they never bothered to compensate for that step down in response. I understand that rooms and positioning are always different, so I figure that's why they didn't, but if I were a designer I would have done something different...

Regarding this interesting sentence:

Doctor:

The Beomaster 8000...it drifts out of spec alarmingly quickly due to capacitor problems even after replacement...

Can you please elaborate on your findings? What causes you to say this?

Jon

Doctor:

It does depend on where one sits with Pentas. The tweeter is set at sitting level and is much the same as that in the 5000.

I have heard many pairs of Pentas and no matter where I sit, stand or kneel, they always sound muddy when compared to the 5000's. I usually describe the effect as muffled.

I have three pairs of 5000's, all Labs and they are certainly more detailed and clear than the Pentas which I am listening to at this moment.

I do agree that the Pentas have it in terms of Bass.

Jon:

 

Regarding this interesting sentence:

Doctor:

The Beomaster 8000...it drifts out of spec alarmingly quickly due to capacitor problems even after replacement...

Can you please elaborate on your findings? What causes you to say this?

Jon

Long chat to Tim Jarman - the design of the Beomaster 8000 is truly excellent but the capacitors go out of spec due a design quirk. He has a fix for this - I no longer have an 8000 or would be more able to give you specifics.

Having had both 5000s and Pentas, I prefer Pentas . Quite happy that others have different opinions!

Hmmm. I'd like to hear more about this. How do I get ahold of Mr. Jarman?

As far as I understood, wear on an electrolytic capacitor (operated within it's voltage limits) was caused by heat and age.

Jon

I remember sometime ago, when I bought my Lab 5000s, someone preferring the 5000s to the Pentas and I'm glad to finally understand why. Really looking foreward to seeing this thread progress.

A capacitor is not just a capacitor and don't expect the most expensive or best spec'ed ones to provide
the best performance in all situations.

Depending on the type of capacitor, it will perform best and last the longest under f.e. certain voltage
conditions.
F.eks. a standard 35V electrolytic capacitor will not last long if only ever working with less
than 1V across it. A low-ESR type will last a bit longer but a foil type would be the best if the capacitance
range will allow for it.

I've seen many design glitches of this type in the Beocord 6000-9000 range but always found the
Beomaster 8000 a much better build in this regard.
Tim is correct though, there are a couple of places that could be improved slightly but none I've found
to be particularly important. The Beocords will occasionally lose a channel completely due to this
problem, I've never seen that happen in a BM8000.

Martin

Jon:

Hmmm. I'd like to hear more about this. How do I get ahold of Mr. Jarman?

As far as I understood, wear on an electrolytic capacitor (operated within it's voltage limits) was caused by heat and age.

Jon

Apparently one of the circuits has power through it all the time and is exposed to heat when on stand by. This causes the drift. Better specified capacitors in this area cures this.

By the way, this log in name is a nome de plume as my usual log in is giving problems!

LOL!

Jon:

I always thought the premise with the panels was that, when hung on the wall, they would act as if radiating into a 2pi environment (all sound in front of the speaker), avoiding (mostly, anyway) the transition into a 4pi radiation characteristic (the longer wavelengths of lower frequencies wrapping around the back of the speaker) like a floorstanding speaker suffers from. This is one of my few criticisms of B&O speakers - it seems that they never bothered to compensate for that step down in response. I understand that rooms and positioning are always different, so I figure that's why they didn't, but if I were a designer I would have done something different...

Are you referring to baffle-step? If so, I was under the impression this was compensated for by the active crossover/EQ in the BeoLabs...

Interesting responses so far - thought this thread would bring out some opposing points of view.

Got to say that my Beomaster 8000 is fully sorted, so whatever it is giving to either set of speakers is as good as it is going to get. Am going to try today or tomorrow with the Beolab 5000 amp to see what this sounds like.

I was just thinking that I'd like to have some RL140s and MS150.2s to listen to as well - this would complete the big 80s passive speaker line up. I think I'd be in trouble if I tried to bring any more speakers into the house though!

j0hnbarker:

I was just thinking that I'd like to have some RL140s and MS150.2s to listen to as well - this would complete the big 80s passive speaker line up. I think I'd be in trouble if I tried to bring any more speakers into the house though!

John,

I can't believe this of Fliss!

Just a thought - have you tried the Bv 5000s with your BM 6000 - apart from anything else, I would think visually a very interesting match?

And I'm really getting old and slow - it's taken me ages to realise who Doctor ' is despite the BM4401 avatar

Cleve

Alex:

Are you referring to baffle-step? If so, I was under the impression this was compensated for by the active crossover/EQ in the BeoLabs...

Yes. I should have clarified that I was referring to Beovox speakers. I'm not sure about all of the Beolab speakers, but I know the Beolab 1's had a 3-position switch for "freestanding", "wall", and "corner" placement; presumably corresponding to 6dB, 3dB, and 0dB of compensation.

The Beomaster 8000 has a set of inputs/ouputs for an external filter/signal processor/whatever, so eventually I'll make a simple line-level circuit for BSC, and do it that way, in lieu of adding more passive components between the power amp and speakers. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Interesting about the Beomaster's (and Beocord's) capacitor issues. I hadn't heard of this before.

Jon

I feel Like I will be a little unprepared for this thread/discussion since I have never heard a set of Pentas. Or a master 8000 for that matter.

Congrats on the 5000's j0hn! It always brings a smile to my face when a member gets something they have been looking for!

I am looking forward to your testing results. -OH, and some of your excellent pics!

joeyboygolf:

I have heard many pairs of Pentas and no matter where I sit, stand or kneel, they always sound muddy when compared to the 5000's. I usually describe the effect as muffled.

Have you ever recapped any? The crossover is quite complex with a lot of components, and I have a feeling that the factory installed caps weren't that great even when new. I certainly had a lot of improvement in that area when I did mine with MKT caps.

I can't really compare them to 5000's though, as I've never listened to them properly. Can't wait to get me a wall so I can install them...

Got the week off, so armed with my recently returned Beomaster/Beolab 5000, I spent the early evening testing the Beovox 5000 panels with the 5000 gear and a CDX2. Got to say that I'm really impressed with this set-up and this will probably be the one I'll be using in my bedroom once I get round to moving some stuff around.

What I really like below is the continuity between all the three separate items, with all of them having the stainless trim and the CDX2 and the 5000 pieces sharing the red/green lighting. Apologies for the shot below as it is only me testing in my living room, not a permanent way of setting this up!

Edit - thanks to Martin for fixing the 5000 series pieces, and to Tony for the 5000 panels :)

j0hnbarker:

What I really like below is the continuity between all the three separate items, with all of them having the stainless trim and the CDX2 and the 5000 pieces sharing the red/green lighting. Apologies for the shot below as it is only me testing in my living room, not a permanent way of setting this up!

John,

Really terrific!  Another example of B&Os design consistency over the years - that items form the 60s will work visually with items from the 80s. even if they are from different designers.  In your case, you've also got that additional connection between the Pentas and the BV5000s, both being designed by the same design group/couple.  

Cleve

Thanks Cleve

What's also great is how good the components sound together. Really pleased with how this has turned out, as I have had a hankering for pairing the old/new 5000 pieces together for a while now, but their individual rarity meant that getting them was the difficult bit!

Did they ever sell the BeoMaster/BeoLab 5000 in the U.S. or in a 110v version? I'm starting to get the itch....

Wonderful collection John!

evman140:

Did they ever sell the BeoMaster/BeoLab 5000 in the U.S. or in a 110v version?

Not sure if they were marketed/sold directly in the states, but they do have a voltage selector.

Thanks Evan :)

Jeff's right about the voltage selector. They're such great devices - you can use them anywhere with the twist of a dial underneath!

Fantastic news! Now I will just have to keep my eye out for them!

I would strongly recommend ordering one from Frede at Classic Audio. You will pay more but you will get a system that will be better than the day it left the factory. He is also an expert when it comes to shipping!

I remember when I was first introduced to B&O, my dealer gave me a catalog and it talked all about this man who dedicated himself to the BeoLab 5000 system. An islander of some sort if I remember correctly?? Is this man the famous Frede Kristiansen I keep reading about?