Maybe someone should suggest that Apple start manufacturing speakers and Tv's then all the Apple fans could go completely Apple! Problem is they would never be able to achieve the level of B&O.

I think that B&O are concerned about being seen to be partnered with mass produced products and therefore lose their sense of exclusivity. You can buy an Imac at virtually any store.

Apple has its place naturally and offers options that are very useful there's no denying.

mawheele:

TripEnglish:

stand that I'm not against Airplay in any way, I'm simply pointing out its flaws. Apple's a great product. I'm typing on my brand new MacBook Air (3rd one), and can see an AppleTV, iPad, and 3 iPhones just by looking around the room I'm in. I'm in no way opposed to the and most of my gripes are minor when compared with the chore of using Windows machines.

What are Airplays flaws? It plays lossless music and HD video across the airwaves perfectly - or am I missing your point? We are still waiting for B&O to make this work across cables, let alone WIFI.

TripEnglish:

And, because some here don't seem clear on what I'm talking about: a switched on computer is fine if you have an iMac in an office. What if you only have 3-4 laptops? Where should I leave an open laptop so that I can listen to music? On my kitchen counter? In my tub? Just asking. It's clearly not a big deal to some, but I'd prefer to use my BeoSound 5.

You should'nt switch off you MacBook Air. Its designed to stay in Sleep and iTunes will automatically wake it if it needs to access content. So, even if the lid is shut, your ATV etc. can still access the system. Good huh!

TripEnglish:

And streaming video does hobble network traffic. Splitting your bands for a subnet can work in a single family home, but in an MDU you'll likely have to use 5ghz just to use the internet without frustration meaning an investment in an entirely different subnet and access points for AV distribution. Not a bad thing, but not as easy or cheap as it's made to sound. Even Kaleidescape slows down network traffic, so it's not an Apple thing. Claiming it doesn't affect performance is a little foolish.

Not if you have your wireless network setup correctly. You run your AV over 5GHz due to the low noise rate/300MBps performance and your internet traffic over 2.4Ghz. A good unit costs £100-150. If you purchase a current model Airport Extreme, these simultaneous bands are run on high performance Marvell processors which likely offer more purpose made horse power than the multi-purpose embedded board in a BM5. If your home or environment are more expansive, purchase a second router and select Extend Network in the settings to provide ample coverage. 

I think that there's an experience deficit in some of these responses. If things were this easy I would be right there on the bandwagon. I'm not in love with cabling and I'm just as interested in novel new solutions as anyone, but I run a high-end installation company and the expectations attached to six figure sales go well beyond the spotty reliability of a few hundred bucks of Apple products. Apple products are very cool and have a very high fun factor. I've mentioned that my own home is littered with them. To that end, B&O offers great ways to incorporate almost all of them into our products. PUC support in every television, our own iOS apps, an iPod/iPad dock, and Airplay with the attachment of an Airport Express to any audio system. This, to me, is the best option. Most of our products are designed to last longer than Steve Jobs has even been back at Apple. As this company changes their products and adds features, you will be able to attach them to a high quality set of products that does not need to be changed every year. 

TripEnglish:

 As this company changes their products and adds features, you will be able to attach them to a high quality set of products that does not need to be changed every year. 

Sorry to interfere Trip, but you intentionally omit some things here. Softare updates are far more easier on Apple products and they cost nothing. Also Apple as company, respect their customers by offering updates also to previously bought products. Instead B&O, needs a dealer to update your software, usually charging for his service, and when we speak about respect on customers we laugh.....just one example ...BEOMEDIA 1 (cost at launch...approx. 2000euros)

3.2.2 to 4.2.1 on iPad costs Zero , NOTHING , zilch & transforms the product massively , making it more than a match for a notebook or even a  laptop in many circumstances.

What B&O product can match THAT ?

TripEnglish:

I think that there's an experience deficit in some of these responses. If things were this easy I would be right there on the bandwagon. I'm not in love with cabling and I'm just as interested in novel new solutions as anyone, but I run a high-end installation company and the expectations attached to six figure sales go well beyond the spotty reliability of a few hundred bucks of Apple products. Apple products are very cool and have a very high fun factor. I've mentioned that my own home is littered with them. To that end, B&O offers great ways to incorporate almost all of them into our products. PUC support in every television, our own iOS apps, an iPod/iPad dock, and Airplay with the attachment of an Airport Express to any audio system. This, to me, is the best option. Most of our products are designed to last longer than Steve Jobs has even been back at Apple. As this company changes their products and adds features, you will be able to attach them to a high quality set of products that does not need to be changed every year.

Sorry Trip, I'm merely picking up on technical points that have been inaccurate in order that the BeoWorld readers have clarity on what is and isn't possible. And, I would suggest that if Your experience has delivered something less you take whatever product it is back under warranty. This is not a pro or anti Apple thing. We comeback to the point that B&O product management seem out of the loop when it comes to core technology; writing software and selecting appropriate underlying technologies.  And whilst they deliver very nice products, they are often too little, too late. The BS8 should have arrived alongside the B&W products 2-3 years ago to offer the connoisseur something to upgrade to. They should be offering superior Sonos-like solutions by now, which lives up to the B&O promise for integration and surprising solutions.

TripEnglish:

 

I think that there's an experience deficit in some of these responses. If things were this easy I would be right there on the bandwagon. I'm not in love with cabling and I'm just as interested in novel new solutions as anyone, but I run a high-end installation company and the expectations attached to six figure sales go well beyond the spotty reliability of a few hundred bucks of Apple products. Apple products are very cool and have a very high fun factor. I've mentioned that my own home is littered with them. To that end, B&O offers great ways to incorporate almost all of them into our products. PUC support in every television, our own iOS apps, an iPod/iPad dock, and Airplay with the attachment of an Airport Express to any audio system. This, to me, is the best option. Most of our products are designed to last longer than Steve Jobs has even been back at Apple. As this company changes their products and adds features, you will be able to attach them to a high quality set of products that does not need to be changed every year. 

I agree here...why should B&O "adopt" this technology when you can simply add it in by using an airport express or an Apple TV?  Apple TV and Airplay are going to change as Trip says....can anyone give a good reason why you should want to do anything else but add it in as you can already?  Everyone saying "B&O should adopt Airplay" I just don't understand this.  B&O doesn't need to, and you can still have Airplay if you want.

When Airplay is integrated, you gain additional features:

- When using the device remote, the device can pass the Play/Pause/Rewind/Skip commands to the iPod/iPhone/iTunes. So for example, you could press Pause on your Beo4 and the iPod would Pause. Very B&O, very Apple.

- When you stream from, let's say an iPhone, the volume control slider controls the device volume. 

- It would use the device DAC which can only be better than the one in AirPort.

mawheele:

TripEnglish:

I think that there's an experience deficit in some of these responses. If things were this easy I would be right there on the bandwagon. I'm not in love with cabling and I'm just as interested in novel new solutions as anyone, but I run a high-end installation company and the expectations attached to six figure sales go well beyond the spotty reliability of a few hundred bucks of Apple products. Apple products are very cool and have a very high fun factor. I've mentioned that my own home is littered with them. To that end, B&O offers great ways to incorporate almost all of them into our products. PUC support in every television, our own iOS apps, an iPod/iPad dock, and Airplay with the attachment of an Airport Express to any audio system. This, to me, is the best option. Most of our products are designed to last longer than Steve Jobs has even been back at Apple. As this company changes their products and adds features, you will be able to attach them to a high quality set of products that does not need to be changed every year.

 

Sorry Trip, I'm merely picking up on technical points that have been inaccurate in order that the BeoWorld readers have clarity on what is and isn't possible. And, I would suggest that if Your experience has delivered something less you take whatever product it is back under warranty. This is not a pro or anti Apple thing. We comeback to the point that B&O product management seem out of the loop when it comes to core technology; writing software and selecting appropriate underlying technologies.  And whilst they deliver very nice products, they are often too little, too late. The BS8 should have arrived alongside the B&W products 2-3 years ago to offer the connoisseur something to upgrade to. They should be offering superior Sonos-like solutions by now, which lives up to the B&O promise for integration and surprising solutions.

 

Don't worry. I understood what you were doing. My reply was essentially to say: "Sure, sometimes. But not always." The issues are not malfunctions, but environmental conditions which have nothing to do with a product performing to the manufacturer's spec. You have to understand that most of my commentary hear is from the point of view of a B&O dealer and solutions provider. If it were just me in my own house with my own system my viewpoint would be different. What works in my modest home generally can not be made to work the same way in a client's home. These homes are larger and often built with more challenging construction than your standard middle-class home. 

When Apple or Cisco produce a router, its functionality cannot be guaranteed in all circumstances and structural conditions. Where I'm being accused of glossing over things (often fairly (-;), I'm also pointing out that phrases like "just plug it in and it works" or "it streams video perfectly" make people in my industry laugh and shake their heads because we know that it generally does not work that way. The chaos math that acts on large installations can be maddening even for seasoned pros and many of us would give our right arms for a solution that's as simple as you say, but it's just doesn't exist. 

B&O caters to a very very very elite market. More elite than at any time in our past. We're criticized for that just as much, if not more, than our technical relevance at any given point. However, while the economy has turned a corner and optimism is returning, it's doing so very slowly. There is not enough aspirational spending for a "middle" type offering to make sense. We'd go out of business. Maybe in a few years, but right now many are arguing either philosophically or from ignorance on this point. 

So the current B&O client is not one who cares about airplay or google tv or whatever the latest fad is. They care about lasting quality, amazing design, and top notch service. They're the ones who buy our TVs by the score while BeoWorlders wring their hands over fleeting features and high MSRPs. Whether or not I believe this to be philosophically desirable (I don't, I actually would prefer to sell more products to more people) is immaterial. I run a business in the real world and have to live with those conditions. I don't have the luxury of allowing my imagination to create the world around me where "things just work."

rednik:

Razlaw:

I think B and O is paying attention to Apple. If not, why would they be coming out with the iPort, apparently working with Sonance, as mentioned in another thread here?  Allows control of an iPhone or iPad with a Beo 4 through the puc as well as seeing the display on TVs.

 

 

They haven't really "come out" with the iPort.

 

It's a devivce that's been around for years.  They have just made public the fact there's PUC control.

It is now on the B and O web page, as mentioned in another thread.

Bizzare! It's just an iPort like you've been able to buy for years, but they've chosen to stick it on the website.  Mayve we should look out for Apple TV, Sony Blu-Ray player etc etc as well.

PS - The remote pictured at the bottom of that page is clearly not a Beo 5

soundproof:

XavierItzmann:

soundproof:

B&O was unfortunate enough to hire a CEO who was in bed with Microsoft

 

Whereas it is the job of the Board to identify a CEO with enough of a vision, it is difficult to see how a bunch of old Northern Europeans, back in 2001, could have seen that they were betting on a loser horse (Microsoft).

[...] a decision which seemed wise at the time took B&O down the wrong path. At the time this CEO was hired, his direct line to Microsoft top management seemed a find

I was reminded of your words yesterday when the CEO of another Northern European company, Nokia, who happens to be another Microsoft man, gutted Nokia's native OS software development (MeeGo and Symbian), and anounced Nokia will henceforth install Microsoft WP7 on its smartphones.  

Also on the same day, he appointed yet another Microsoft man as President of Nokia Inc. (United States).

I think the results are entirely predictable.  Nokia in three years will be a much smaller company than it is today.

This is so self-indulgent and I apologize to my Beoworld friends for "beating a dead horse" by re-posting a message that many of them have seen in the past, but the below letter is probably one of the few moments of clairvoyance in my life (as attested to by everything in my stock portfolio other than my investments in Apple).  I feel this letter to a former B&O CEO is even more pertinent and valid today then it was when I originally wrote it 6 years ago.  I think B&O better "wise-up" quick as there's only so many Russian oligarchs to go around - people like me (i.e. affluent enough to afford a large BV-7 and various other B&O hardware if I save for awhile and because I'm a "fanboy") are getting fewer and farther between.  We're tech-savy enough to realize that things like AirPlay negate some of the overly-expensive B&O accouterments.  I want B&O to concentrate on their core products (like self-amplified speakers) and utilize the "smarts" of other, more nimble, companies for things like software.

B&O, please, please make your hardware play well with Apple stuff.

Mark D.

March 20, 2005

Mr. Torben Ballegaard Sorensen

Bang & Olufsen a/s       

Peter Bangs VEJ15

DK 7600, Struer

Dear Mr. Sorensen,

I am writing in hopes that you might briefly indulge the thoughts of one of your company’s most adamant supporters.

I am a loyal Bang & Olufsen user and have been for the past several years.  I love your company, your company’s history, and, of course, your products.  I literally daydream about B&O equipment.  I am also a loyal Apple computer user having switched from Windows powered machines about five years ago.  Over the past several years, I have sold many of my friends on the virtues of both B&O and Apple products.  In my humble opinion, B&O and Apple share many similar corporate ideals and, therefore, B&O and Apple subsequently share similar customers.  Both companies design simple, ergonomic, and integrated products that appeal to individuals who appreciate technology working “invisibly” in the background to make for a cleaner user interface.  And, both companies value ergonomics and design more so than their respective competitors.

Though B&O and Apple certainly make a couple of similar products, I likewise see these two companies as more complementary to each other rather than outright competitors.  B&O is primarily an audio / video equipment manufacturer, and Apple is primarily a computer software / hardware manufacturer (and soon to be media distributer).  In my opinion, B&O makes the best A/V equipment and Apple makes the best A/V software.  I foresee Apple’s software becoming increasingly important in the arena of consumer media consumption.  I would therefore very much like to see B&O work more closely with Apple; in fact, I see any union of these two companies’ products as a way of solidifying and guaranteeing B&O’s future presence in the rapidly changing marketplace that is consumer media.

For the past couple of years, I have actually contemplated writing you and enclosing a piece of Apple equipment (a wireless Apple Airport Express Wi Fi hub) as I would love to somehow convince someone within your company of the elegance of Apple’s software and what I see as Apple’s plan to change the way consumers acquire music and video.  I keep hesitating to do so as I realize that this would seem incredibly audacious on my part - I am not an engineer or audio / video specialist (I am actually a retinal surgeon).  Also, I realize that B&O has it’s own audio / visual software, it’s own “media hub”, and it’s own mp3 player.  Yet, I believe in my heart that Apple is about to change things in a very fundamental way, and I want B&O to be a part of this change.

Just to briefly outline what I see happening to the A/V market from the perspective of a well-informed consumer:  I see Apple’s iTunes software and Apple’s wireless audio and video hubs as revolutionizing the way music and video are acquired and played.  These integrated pieces of software and hardware have changed the way we listen to music in my house - we now send it wirelessly to our B&O stereos from our Apple computers.  These integrated solutions are driven by a magnificently clean user interface that incorporates constantly updating software that also allows for music and videos to be purchased.  And, Apple’s software allows me to do this for either Apple and Windows based computers.  I have also set up this same type of home audio system for many of my friends, and I have been able to experience first-hand how much people enjoy this particular confluence of technology.  Soon, we will be able to do this with video, too, when Apple releases their “iTV” product (name subject to change).  I fully expect to wirelessly send movies to my B&O television in the very near future.

I believe that Apple’s market share in terms of computer users will start to significantly rise over the next few years, but (more importantly) I believe that Apple’s software and their wireless hubs will find their way in to consumers’ living rooms (regardless of which type of computer, stereo, or TV the consumer owns).  I believe that Apple will soon introduce some sort of computer based audio-video “server” that will become the proverbial and oft-promised “digital hub” that consumers have anticipated for so long.  And, I believe that this digital hub will (like the iPod and iTunes) be designed for Windows and Apple machines, and (like the iPod and iTunes) become the de facto standard.

My humble suggestion is that B&O find a way to partner with Apple and start using Apple’s software (which runs on Windows and Apple machines) to power your hardware.  I realize that this would represent a fundamental shift in philosophy for B&O away from “in house” software design.  However, if Apple’s CEO, Steve Jobs, were to demo B&O televisions and audio systems utilizing Apple’s forthcoming “media hub” and software, I believe it would be a boom to your company that would actually make it difficult for B&O to keep up with demand.  Likewise, and with all due respect, I see Apple’s software design teams as better than those of any other company (including Microsoft and B&O) as Apple is simply so committed to this vision and so good at designing the “end user experience”.

In talking with some B&O employees, I get the impression that B&O does not contemplate the Apple market much (if I am wrong, please excuse my ignorance).  Part of this may be based on Apple’s seemingly meager market share, but, as I pointed out, I see this as a mute point as Apple’s audio / video software will be independent of computer type.  As an aside, because B&O and Apple attract the same type of consumer, I believe that the percentage of B&O users who also use Apple computers is much higher than the percentage of Apple computer users in the general market place.

Thank you for taking the time to read my overly lengthy letter.  For the record, I do realize how truly ridiculous it must sound having someone like me write someone like you and offer advice about future corporate trends.  I am very passionate about both B&O and Apple, and I so desperately want these two companies’ products to better integrate.  Plus, I obviously feel that some sort of union like the one I am proposing would offer future dividends for B&O as well as secure B&O’s place in an increasingly volatile marketplace.  Please also know that it is not my intention to in any way denigrate B&O’s software, wireless efforts, or the Beomedia product.  On the contrary, my sole impetus in writing this letter was to offer my admittedly amateurish outlook on a topic that I feel has the potential to strongly effect a company that I love very much  - Bang & Olufsen.

Sincerely,

Mark J. Douglas, MD

P.S.  I would love to send you an Apple Airport Express or Apple’s upcoming “iTV” product (when it comes out in a few months) if these are things you might like to personally try.  I only hesitated in doing so out of fear that a package being sent from a consumer to the president of a company might not actually make it in to your hands.  Please do not hesitate to contact me about sending you one of these devices - it would be my honor to do so.

Very interesting! Nice letter!

Did you receive a reply of any sort?

Hi,

I have ordered beside the Iport an Apple TV 2 Box. My question now is how can I get the IR signals to it when it is in a draw hidden away. I will connect it to a BV10  via HDMI. Can I use the IR thing that I can glue on the Apple IR eye and stuck the 3.5 plug into the BV-10 TV and use the Apple IR commands with my Beo 5?

Thanks

Oliver

What needs installing by my Dealer? Was muss der Händler installieren?

Ich will das Teil über IR mit der Beo 5 ansteueren aber das IR Auge des Apple TV ist verdeckt. Kann ich das machen mit dem IR Teil was ist auf das IR Auge des Apple kleben kann und dann verbinden mit einem 3.5 Klinkenstecker für IR am BV10 (der erstMitte März geliefert wird). Was genau muss ich inder Beo5 und im BV 10 ansteuern?

OKF:

What needs installing by my Dealer? Was muss der Händler installieren?

Ich will das Teil über IR mit der Beo 5 ansteueren aber das IR Auge des Apple TV ist verdeckt. Kann ich das machen mit dem IR Teil was ist auf das IR Auge des Apple kleben kann und dann verbinden mit einem 3.5 Klinkenstecker für IR am BV10 (der erstMitte März geliefert wird). Was genau muss ich inder Beo5 und im BV 10 ansteuern?

Ehhh....uhhh?

I said/asked: waht di I have to install in the BV 10 and in the Beo5 when the IR eye is covered up and when the IR is pluged to the TV with the glue on eye

OKF:

I said/asked: waht di I have to install in the BV 10 and in the Beo5 when the IR eye is covered up and when the IR is pluged to the TV with the glue on eye

Seven, of course. 

TripEnglish:

OKF:

I said/asked: waht di I have to install in the BV 10 and in the Beo5 when the IR eye is covered up and when the IR is pluged to the TV with the glue on eye

Seven, of course. 

IMHO you are wrong here Trip. My answer would be by all means,  red. Prove me wrong.

??

Hi OKF,

da Du vielleicht besser deutsch kannst als ich englisch:

Bei Verwendung des IR-Kabels werden die IR-Signale der Beo5 NICHT direkt vom Apple TV empfangen, sondern vom BV 10. Auf der Grundlage der PUC-Tabelle "Apple Remote" übersetzt der BV 10 die empfangenen Signale und schickt sie über das IR-Kabel zum ATV. Das Ende des IR-Kabels besteht aus einem Infrarotsender, der daher genau am Infrarot-Empfänger des Apple TV befestigt werden muss. Daher kannst Du das Apple TV in einem Schrank verstecken oder von mir aus auch einbetonieren!

Alles klar?

/Räuber

Vielen Dank, Super, das hilft mir jetzt sehr weiter. In der 4.11 Software der Beo 5 finde ich diverse Apple Remotes, unteranderem im Menü Sonstige mit einem Fernbedienungssymbol und im Menü Homeautomation->STB->Apple->>>'Apple Remote' und 'apple remote', also 2, welche eine schwarze und eine weisse 'Kiste' als Symbol zeigen. Was genau muss ich das auswählen?