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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 03-11-2011 4:28 AM by OKF. 131 replies.
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  • 11-22-2010 5:02 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    patvg:

    time to update for those who did not understand, yet : 

    http://gizmodo.com/5696379/how-apples-airplay-is-about-to-change-your-life

    I am a huge B&O customer, but for years I'm asking/telling :

    -I'm more than happy with my Macs & iTunes, I only buy music through iTunes

    -I like Apple's approach of iPhoto, iMovie

    -I have everything on a dedicated Mac, affordable, with TimeMachine backup ...

    -I have great iPhone, iPad, iPod touch apps, having access to that centralised data

    ....

    What is the success of Apple ? They put the customer central, together with what that customer wants, needs and makes hum happy. Unfortunately, that's NOT what B&0 is doing. They want to impose their own "standards", getting out their own mobile phones, their own music library systems, their (silly) Windows based media centre (embedded, VERY old technology!), an iPort powered by an unofficial non-supported 3rd party software (for Mac)....

    I DO have to upgrade my B&O system (BV6, BV Avant, BV5, BS...).. I like the B&O design, but today, I want more, more than the MasterLink which is in the meantime  -what - 25 years old ? Even if I decide to upgrade/change, I'll need to make lot's of hardware investments, including pulling new cables to new places in my house. Why is it so hard to understand that what I want and so many others is something simple like AirTunes, AirPlay , WIFI ? Stream iTunes music seamlessly over and to my entire B&O system ? 

    If B&O is smart and wants to survive, they adopt AirPlay, iTunes, appleTV totally. They should integrate appleTV in all BeoVision systems. Plug in to iPhoto ...

    This would open new markets to B&O.

    Today, spending 500.000 for a B&O system which does not do what I want : that's something B&O is still selling, but only to people who pay that amount of money just to show they have B&O, rather than using it in a "contemporary way" ...

     

    I totally agree with you!

    I have a BV10-40 and the new Apple TV. One hour ago I updated my IPod touch with IOS 4.2.1. Now I can stream my music (and also videos) directly from my IPod to ATV and listen (and watch) over my Beolab 8000 connected to BV10-40. No need to start ITunes on my PC. It works fine, very big fun, thank you Mr. Jobs!!! Who needs Beosound 5 or Beosound 8 anymore???

    Regards

    Räuber

     

  • 11-22-2010 7:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Raeuber:

    Who needs Beosound 5 or Beosound 8 anymore???

    1. People who demand a higher quality of sound.

    2. People who demand access to their entire music collection and not just what's on their iPod.

    3. People who don't want to have a computer switched on in order to have access to their full music collection.

    4. People who have better things to do than spend the day at the genius bar getting replacements for all the iOS devices.

    5. People who don't want their network traffic compromised by streaming content. 

    That's a start. There's more. Of course AirPlay is cool. Don't misunderstand me, but comments like "who needs X anymore???" are a little simplistic. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 11-23-2010 1:56 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    1. Maybe.

    2. Install IOS 4.2 and the choice is iPod, iPad, iPhone, Mac, PC, iTunes server - your entire collection - not just whats on your nearby device. If you have an iPad you can drive the source and output seamlessly over your WiFi using the new remote App, which is just brilliant

    3. Can't remember the last time I switched off my Mac. Instructions say Don't.

    4. Industries best customer satisfaction and reliability according to every study. Used my BeoCare way more times than I've ever used my AppleCare agreements.

    5. Good point. Get the simultaneous dual band router and run your media traffic over the 5Ghz band. Streamed content is the future for us all, so worth looking at addressing. I have 720p HD movies that stream absolutely perfectly to the new ATV2 and my browsing performance across the rest of my network feels untouched.

     

     

     

  • 11-23-2010 2:57 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    The Beosound 8. Will support Airplay Yes -  thumbs up

  • 11-23-2010 3:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B

    No, only with a connected Airport Express!
  • 11-23-2010 3:56 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B

    I upgraded this morning (12+ hours ago) to IOS 4.2.1 on our iPad and IOS 4.? on the latest Apple TV ... and when I got home tonight I did my first test of AirPlay ... iPad Movies app to Apple TV playing of a music video ("Chasing Cars" by Snow Patrol)

    iPad took control of the Apple TV menu on the BV8 and then played the video and music and then released control back !

    Next test ... a playlist ? a movie ?

    First B&O (1976) was a Beogram 1500 ... latest (2011) change has been to couple the BL11 with the BL6Ks *sounds superb*

  • 11-23-2010 4:22 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B

    Not only this thread shows how many of us like to integrate Apple with B&O.

    That means not only a simple IPod dock like Beosound 8. Come on you sleepy B&O engineers!

    /Räuber

  • 11-23-2010 5:05 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    TripEnglish:

    1. People who demand a higher quality of sound.

    2. People who demand access to their entire music collection and not just what's on their iPod.

    3. People who don't want to have a computer switched on in order to have access to their full music collection.

    4. People who have better things to do than spend the day at the genius bar getting replacements for all the iOS devices.

    5. People who don't want their network traffic compromised by streaming content. 

    That's a start. There's more. Of course AirPlay is cool. Don't misunderstand me, but comments like "who needs X anymore???" are a little simplistic. 

    1. Well, Räuber is using BL8000 and BV10, and I trust you're not saying they are producing inferior sound? The HDMI-signal delivered by the AppleTV is 100% standards compliant, and if the sound is bad, that's because of the television and speakers.

    2. You seem to have misunderstood with your "not just what's on their iPod." The setup Räuber has will access all his digital sources with ease, and will give him a nice, two-way instant response way of selecting what to play.

    3. There is no "computer" switched on. Just the little AppleTV, and you can control it with a variety of remotes, including B&O's. But the iPad/iPhone takes the experience to an entirely different level - one where B&O could have been years ago, if they hadn't ditched two-way and had kept developing it.

    4. I have bought so much Apple-stuff that it is embarrassing, since the mid-80s. I've never had to stand at any Genius-bar to replace anything. In my long Apple-history I have had one antenna problem on one Mac. Instantly replaced by delivery to my door. I just got out an old Titanium Powerbook, installed new memory in it, and wondered if it would start, after years in storage, half-disassembled. Bingo - it worked.

    5. And with this point you make it very clear that you really don't understand the concept at all. There is no compromising of network traffic by streaming content. There is, instead, instant delivery of movies, music, television shows, podcasts, radio stations - and then instant channeling without glitches to whatever end-component is going to display the content. While at the same time providing you with intuitive and instant access to your own digital content, from wherever you have it stored.

     

    Trip. In 2005 I tried to show B&O where Apple was headed with their digital content concept, five years later they are reluctantly accepting what's been recognized years ago by other A/V manufacturers. Apple have created the new source transfer format for content - consider it the new CD if that makes it easier to grasp the consequences - though it displays a lot more than just music.

    B&O embraced Philip/SONY's CD and made it instantly available to their customers, in outstanding CD-players; just as B&O embraced other innovative solutions throughout their history, and created quite a few of their own.

    Just as the digital content revolution started, B&O was unfortunate enough to hire a CEO who was in bed with Microsoft, because of his work on the LEGO/PC systems. And B&O therefore picked the wrong horse. That horse hasn't run a proper digital content race in years, and should be turned into sausages.

    I doubt that B&O, with its meagre resources, are going to be able to compete with the constantly reinventing app-fed platform that Apple has developed. But B&O can wrap its own unique solutions around that core, and leap into the future, instead of clinging to the past.

    In conclusion, I have no trouble understanding B&O's trepidation. They are hanging on to their proprietary system for interconnecting components for what it's worth. It saved them once (according to the CEO mentioned above) and maybe they are counting on it being a lifeline through their computer averse older clientele. But the younger generation that B&O is absolutely dependent upon for future growth isn't buying that notion - but it does want brilliant screens/speakers/interactivity. And an outstanding B&O proprietary solution for controlling it all on their iPad/iPhone.

    (Recently, in the business paper here, there was an article with a person who was forced to sell an apartment that he'd invested an unbelievable amount of money into. He listed various special features, and mentioned "the special B&O cabling of the entire apartment, at a cost of over GBP 100 thousand.)

    Young customers are going to ask for an excellent WiFi solution, and will be able to figure out the ethernet cable themselves.

    My daughter just began her studies at the university in the UK. On one of her first days, she installed AirPort Express in the ethernet outlet of her room, created a proprietary network for herself, logged on with iPad, iPhone and Macbook Pro, set up her speakers, and connected to her server on the internet.
    She has access to her WiFi in the hallway, where the students like to hang and chat. She wouldn't even consider cabling her first apartment at the cost mentioned above, when the time comes to buy one. But she's already joined the Entrepreneur's society at the uni, and I wouldn't be surprised if she could afford to do whatever installation she wants, when that day arrives.
    B&O should work hard to get people such as her as customers.

     

     

  • 11-23-2010 6:27 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
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    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    TripEnglish:

    Raeuber:

    Who needs Beosound 5 or Beosound 8 anymore???

    1. People who demand a higher quality of sound.

    2. People who demand access to their entire music collection and not just what's on their iPod.

    3. People who don't want to have a computer switched on in order to have access to their full music collection.

    4. People who have better things to do than spend the day at the genius bar getting replacements for all the iOS devices.

    5. People who don't want their network traffic compromised by streaming content. 

    That's a start. There's more. Of course AirPlay is cool. Don't misunderstand me, but comments like "who needs X anymore???" are a little simplistic. 

    How would you define the BM5? A computer hidden behind a chair is still a computer.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 11-23-2010 6:59 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Puncher:

    TripEnglish:

    Raeuber:

    Who needs Beosound 5 or Beosound 8 anymore???

    1. People who demand a higher quality of sound.

    2. People who demand access to their entire music collection and not just what's on their iPod.

    3. People who don't want to have a computer switched on in order to have access to their full music collection.

    4. People who have better things to do than spend the day at the genius bar getting replacements for all the iOS devices.

    5. People who don't want their network traffic compromised by streaming content. 

    That's a start. There's more. Of course AirPlay is cool. Don't misunderstand me, but comments like "who needs X anymore???" are a little simplistic. 

     

    How would you define the BM5? A computer hidden behind a chair is still a computer.

     

    You are absolutely right: Beosound 5 is only a big and expensive remote for the Beomaster 5! And Airplay does not need a PC (only for synchronize my IPod with ITunes), my IPod touch is my PC AND my remote!

    @soundproof: Very good statement!

    /Räuber

  • 11-23-2010 7:14 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    B&O's Apple-denial is such a mystery.

    What I find the most puzzling, is that the companies' products are actually synergistic, and would deliver an even better end-result if used together properly. And as to their form, they are complementary.

    When I place an iPad/iPhone/Macbook next to my BeoVision 8, BL5, BL3, Beosystem 6500 - they're all in the same family. A B&O customer wouldn't feel they got a strange, generic remote in their hand.

    And imagine if B&O had embraced the possibility, and had created something like iTeleport married to an app that was designed to control B&O hardware, with B&O designed look&feel? It would have driven customers into stores in a stampede. Instead we get hobbled products - a BeoVision 8 that is launched without the curtain, and without 5.1DD decoding; a BeoSound 4 that doesn't play DVDs (when in fact it has a drive which can); etc.

    Notice that iTeleport makes it possible for iPad users to remotely control both Mac and Windows computers - which means that all B&O customers easily could control their digital content playback from their computers to their B&O A/V units, screens and speakers - from a fantastic interface which also gave them complete freedom of control over their computers, in an easy and intuitive manner that is totally B&O in the Jensen age.

    Couple that to a B&O hardware app which switches components on/off, selects sources, controls variables, curtains, home movies, lighting and everything else, but with a graphically wonderful two-way interaction ...

     

    iTeleport's own, somewhat exhuberant presentation video:

     

    Note - iTeleport hasn't been made by Apple, and could easily have been made by B&O, if their thinking had been in that direction. I'm sorry, Trip. I don't buy your objections - I have a state-of-the-art playback system at home using B&O products to create images and sound, but where I've had to use components from other companies to achieve state-of-the-art, when that could easily have been supplied by B&O.

    I have hopes when it comes to the new CEO, but B&O falling behind here was completely unnecessary, and is due to a strange corporate culture where there are a lot of "unmentionables" that are sabotaging the end result their products could deliver.

     

     

     

  • 11-23-2010 10:11 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    B&O really do need a shake up.

    Their insular attitude will be their ultimate downfall.I just don't think they will be around in 5 years time...

    They just don't seem to understand that Mac-centric owners are a large percentage of their buying [now and potential] demographic,so should do all they can to tap into this rich vein.

    The residual [ex CEO] PC bias is costing them sales.No doubt it is still rife within the company.Not rocket science to catch up with the curve.All it takes is a change in mindset.

    It often seems  to be too little too late,or almost but not quite.With their elevated pricing structure it just isn't good enough.

     

     

     

     

     

  • 11-23-2010 11:41 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    I think B and O is paying attention to Apple. If not, why would they be coming out with the iPort, apparently working with Sonance, as mentioned in another thread here?  Allows control of an iPhone or iPad with a Beo 4 through the puc as well as seeing the display on TVs.

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 11-23-2010 12:28 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    One could argue this falls into the too little too late category.

    They seem to be 5 plus years behind the curve.

    Lets hope we are in for a period of change.

     

     

     

  • 11-23-2010 2:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Razlaw:

    I think B and O is paying attention to Apple. If not, why would they be coming out with the iPort, apparently working with Sonance, as mentioned in another thread here?  Allows control of an iPhone or iPad with a Beo 4 through the puc as well as seeing the display on TVs.

     

    They haven't really "come out" with the iPort.

     

    It's a devivce that's been around for years.  They have just made public the fact there's PUC control.

  • 11-23-2010 9:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Forgive me, when I read that B and O were "releasing" the iPort I did not know it had been around for years. I also did not realize they were keeping the puc a secret. As the product allows the display to be seen on TVs throughout the house it must have Masterlink which again I was unaware of. Will have to go look at the iPort web page to find it.

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 11-23-2010 11:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Soundproof (and others),

    Please understand that I'm not against Airplay in any way, I'm simply pointing out its flaws. Apple's a great product. I'm typing on my brand new MacBook Air (3rd one), and can see an AppleTV, iPad, and 3 iPhones just by looking around the room I'm in. I'm in no way opposed to the and most of my gripes are minor when compared with the chore of using Windows machines.

    However you have to understand the your own experiences are limited and even if you were to add up all participating users of BeoWorld you would have a statistically insignificant fraction of Apple's user base. To say something like "I have never had to _____" doesn't speak to anything beyond your own customer experience. If you've been satisfied, that's wonderful, but please don't make the mistake of generalizing your experience to the wider population. 

    Also don't conflate user satisfaction with raw data on defective rates. You can have very high instances of defects and replacements and still maintain high satisfaction. Apple proves this.

    And, because some here don't seem clear on what I'm talking about: a switched on computer is fine if you have an iMac in an office. What if you only have 3-4 laptops? Where should I leave an open laptop so that I can listen to music? On my kitchen counter? In my tub? Just asking. It's clearly not a big deal to some, but I'd prefer to use my BeoSound 5.

    And streaming video does hobble network traffic. Splitting your bands for a subnet can work in a single family home, but in an MDU you'll likely have to use 5ghz just to use the internet without frustration meaning an investment in an entirely different subnet and access points for AV distribution. Not a bad thing, but not as easy or cheap as it's made to sound. Even Kaleidescape slows down network traffic, so it's not an Apple thing. Claiming it doesn't affect performance is a little foolish.

    So I'm not even taking that strong a stance, just representing the point of view that not everyone is satisfied with Apple as a solution for infrastructure. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 11-24-2010 12:24 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    soundproof:
    B&O was unfortunate enough to hire a CEO who was in bed with Microsoft

     

    Whereas it is the job of the Board to identify a CEO with enough of a vision, it is difficult to see how a bunch of old Northern Europeans, back in 2001, could have seen that they were betting on a loser horse (Microsoft):

    1.  Other than France to a limited extent, Apple was never really popular in Europe.

    2.  In 2001, all "correct-thinking" European people, especially old people, thought Microsoft was the end-all, be-all of technology.  Herd mentality.

    3.  Boards are made up of old people who don't understand technology.  The poor idiots thought Microsoft was the future.

    4.  Nokia, Ericsson, Siemens, all of the Euro "tech leaders" married themselves to subpar, non-standard Microsoft technologies.  Nokia sort of saw the light with Symbian, and staked a bit of ground on it, but was in the end unable to overcome their own overwhelming corporate herd mentality.

     

    So the B&O Board's mistake was almost inevitable.  Almost.  If they had kept in mind taste, the soul of what B&O represents, they could have avoided their mistake.  Aesthetics (understood as a whole, not just appearance) could have prevented them from making the horrible herd-mentality mistake they made.  But the dullard B&O Board evidently forgot that they were supposed to have good taste...  And so they hired a Microsoft-worshipping loser.  They totally missed the great Jobs quote from 1996:

    The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way, in the sense that they don't think of original ideas, and they don't bring much culture into their products.

     

    The B&O Board is far from unique, though.  Nokia just hired another guy with no taste.  They are doomed, too.

  • 11-24-2010 3:31 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
    • Founder

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    TripEnglish:

    And, because some here don't seem clear on what I'm talking about: a switched on computer is fine if you have an iMac in an office. What if you only have 3-4 laptops? Where should I leave an open laptop so that I can listen to music? On my kitchen counter? In my tub? Just asking. It's clearly not a big deal to some, but I'd prefer to use my BeoSound 5.

    "Some of us" understood exactly what you were talking about - you need a switched on computer - in your laptop senario above probably an additional "server-type" computer makes sense whether it be an iMac, PC or BM5. Your original post implied that a BS5 solution didn't require a powered up computer at all when it clearly does - a £2K+, dedicated PC.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 11-24-2010 6:07 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    XavierItzmann:

    soundproof:
    B&O was unfortunate enough to hire a CEO who was in bed with Microsoft

     

    Whereas it is the job of the Board to identify a CEO with enough of a vision, it is difficult to see how a bunch of old Northern Europeans, back in 2001, could have seen that they were betting on a loser horse (Microsoft).

    I said they were "unfortunate," not dumb. Fortune is revealed by the passage of time, and is sometimes caused by factors you have no influence over. In this particular instance, a decision which seemed wise at the time took B&O down the wrong path. At the time this CEO was hired, his direct line to Microsoft top management seemed a find.

    And the fact that this happened precisely as the iPod and subsequently the iTunes Store was launched, couldn't have had an impact on the decision. Most analysts doubted the wisdom of Apple going into these products. I'm not saying that B&O should have embraced Apple then, but that the decision closed the door even more firmly shut to whatever Apple was doing, because B&O didn't want to offend Microsoft as the collaboration got underway.

    Which is why it was an unfortunate decision. Exemplified to a brilliant extent in how the BeoSound 2 was launched without an Apple-OS driver ... a fact which caused B&O to finally realize how many Mac-users are in their customer base, as the complaints came pouring in. B&O had looked at the total number of platforms worldwide, and at the time Macs had a just under 3% share.
    But they didn't ask the question: how many of our customers are Mac owners? It turned out to be over 20% - and they were much more likely to want a distinctive MP3-player than were the PC-customers, because they had iTunes in their computers ...

    However, to your other point - the B&O board could have realized what you quote: that Microsoft have absolutely no taste. A fact they have proven a zillion times, with horrible GUI design, terrible product design, clunky usage of CPU capacity, and with user-unfriendly demands upon customers.

    If B&O had been true to their own brand expression and excellence, they would have sought to achieve a fit between B&O and Apple's offerings at a much earlier stage. It's as if the two brands are made for each other. My BL3s on either side of my computer look absolutely incredible.

    And it would have been very simple to put Mac-functionality inside the BeoMaster 5, instead of the horrible junkyard offering that's inside it now.

    It's not too late - but it's a reverse Tortoise and Hare race, where it's the tortoise that's been asleep, not the hare. And it's going to be a lot harder to catch up than if they'd gotten going when the writing was clearly on the wall.

    I'm not quoting your entire post, but I want to highlight this sentence of yours, because it really goes to the core of the problem:

    "The dullard B&O Board evidently forgot that they were supposed to have good taste ..."

     

     

  • 11-24-2010 8:53 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Hi,

    lot of things have been said so far ... with the majority of oldschool B&O fans here claiming, that competences in the connectivity department is more or less an issue for the low end markets and less important for the high price/end market.

    Now how would you explain, that companies like naim and linn took the lead in the highprice netplayer market within a few years ... with naim taking care very intensively that apple certification/implementation is part of their products. They sell very well. Linn is following with their new DS line, making their hardware work with itunes content and apple based apps for remote controls. In my house Sonos is my master system for accessing a large variety of media/music. Apple-TV does the job for video content ... most of my content is stored on a NAS, no computer has to be running for access via Sonos or Apple-TV. Besides that the BS/BM5 is nothing but a computer with a certain GUI on it. I checked BS/BM5 before and realized, that it simply would not do the job the way i wanted it ... regardless of the costs ... there was no way i could justify a purchase.

    Still, for me, Sonos would be the better partner for B&O, because it is not a closed system. Sonos has implemented Napster, Spotify, Lastfm etc. and will be able to access itunes content directly via an ipad application soon.

    B&O has to make shure, that it offers the most convenient access and best ergonomics for future entertainment markets ... and that won't be CD's that have to be stripped into lossless files before one can use them via network gear ... it will be downloaded and/or streamed. B&O should make their TV's the masters of these systems and provide the best audio and video experience possible for the price they are charging ... but(!) integration of content will be as important as excellent audio and video quality ... if they miss on that, they will fail.

    Cheers

    Tim

    BV 7-40 BR ... Beolab 5 front ... Beolab 8000 rear ... Beolab 2 Sub ... Apple TV ... Apple NAS ... Beosound Ouverture  ... Technisat HD8-S ... Sonos ZP 90

  • 11-24-2010 9:43 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    I hope nothing I've written has given you the impression that it is the low-end market that's of relevance. It is just as relevant for the high-end - but B&O needs to recruit some new customers, and not just live off their old - and that requires entry-level products that make sense within the expectations envelope of the younger market.

    To me - the BeoVision 8, BeoSound 4, BL3/BL4 surround enabled package could have been an incredibly strong entry-level product, if it had been enabled for multi-source playback, including DVDs, streamed content, gaming, easy connectivity to Mac/PC.

    And it would be a package where the new customer could easily upgrade by demoting speakers, moving the BL3s to be rear speakers when the time came to buy BL9/BL5; moving the BL4 rears to become computer speakers, etc.
    But for that to succeed you have to deliver fully enabled products, instead of hobbling them because you're afraid they'd otherwise cut into your sales of BeoCenter 2 and more expensive BeoVisions. As if customers couldn't then just go across the street and pick up fully enabled products from Loewe, Linn, Naim and others.

    Look at Meridian, which immediately saw the benefit of Sooloos, and bought it. Instead of trying to punch together their own solution, in a very mediocre way, in an area that was outside their chief competence. Fortunately for B&O, Meridian has a design expression to their major components that makes you averse to being in the same room - but once they get that sorted, they'll be a significant threat, because they've been doing active speakers for as long as B&O, and they have a superior connectivity solution.

    The chief problem is that B&O didn't understand that Apple had created a new "cross-platform compatible content transfer standard" for the internet age. As LPs, VHS, CDs, DVDs, etc. were developed for their particular points in the timeline.

    B&O for some completely incomprehensible reason thought they could do the same, instead of just accepting the standard - as they did when they created the first stereo stylus in Europe; when they adopted Quadraphonic; when they incorporated remote control; when they made multi-room control possible; when they were among the first to embrace CD-players, because their customers could afford them. (They were expensive.)
    Then B&O was in the forefront, offering the best integrated solution available on the market. Sometimes they made the invention, at other times they immediately adopted superior, emerging solutions.
    And that's what today's B&O customers expect from them ... but they're not getting it.

  • 11-24-2010 11:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    I think B&O is smart not to rush in and adopt this technology.  And believe me, this is coming from a big Apple fanboy (check the username).  Anyway, Airplay is still in its infancy, and buggy in and right now there's a big problem in my opinion that you can't stream to multiple devices.  It may play out to be really great in the future, but right now adopting a standard like this could be a setup for failure if it doesn't improve.  It's not a polished technology like one would expect from B&O (or a partner of B&O).

    Here's a review on TUAW of Airplay audio:

    http://www.tuaw.com/2010/11/23/hands-on-airplay-for-audio-streaming-in-depth/2#comments

     

    Here's a review on Airplay video:

     

    http://www.tuaw.com/2010/11/23/hands-on-with-airplay-ipad-and-apple-tv-updates-make-a-magic-co/

     

     

  • 11-24-2010 12:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Good distinction - I'm of the impression we're discussing general implementation of OSX-capabilities, not necessarily Airplay, ref Trip's post above, which touched upon the wider base, and was why I replied in the thread.

    As to Airplay, let's wait and see how that develops. As such, it's a direct threat to their proposed system of interconnecting A/V components, and you can understand why they're not directly eager to leap on board. So something's got to give.

  • 11-24-2010 4:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    TripEnglish:
    stand that I'm not against Airplay in any way, I'm simply pointing out its flaws. Apple's a great product. I'm typing on my brand new MacBook Air (3rd one), and can see an AppleTV, iPad, and 3 iPhones just by looking around the room I'm in. I'm in no way opposed to the and most of my gripes are minor when compared with the chore of using Windows machines.

    What are Airplays flaws? It plays lossless music and HD video across the airwaves perfectly - or am I missing your point? We are still waiting for B&O to make this work across cables, let alone WIFI.

    TripEnglish:

    And, because some here don't seem clear on what I'm talking about: a switched on computer is fine if you have an iMac in an office. What if you only have 3-4 laptops? Where should I leave an open laptop so that I can listen to music? On my kitchen counter? In my tub? Just asking. It's clearly not a big deal to some, but I'd prefer to use my BeoSound 5.

    You should'nt switch off you MacBook Air. Its designed to stay in Sleep and iTunes will automatically wake it if it needs to access content. So, even if the lid is shut, your ATV etc. can still access the system. Good huh!

    TripEnglish:
    And streaming video does hobble network traffic. Splitting your bands for a subnet can work in a single family home, but in an MDU you'll likely have to use 5ghz just to use the internet without frustration meaning an investment in an entirely different subnet and access points for AV distribution. Not a bad thing, but not as easy or cheap as it's made to sound. Even Kaleidescape slows down network traffic, so it's not an Apple thing. Claiming it doesn't affect performance is a little foolish.

    Not if you have your wireless network setup correctly. You run your AV over 5GHz due to the low noise rate/300MBps performance and your internet traffic over 2.4Ghz. A good unit costs £100-150. If you purchase a current model Airport Extreme, these simultaneous bands are run on high performance Marvell processors which likely offer more purpose made horse power than the multi-purpose embedded board in a BM5. If your home or environment are more expansive, purchase a second router and select Extend Network in the settings to provide ample coverage. 

     

     

     

     

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