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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 03-11-2011 4:28 AM by OKF. 131 replies.
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  • 09-02-2010 10:43 PM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-19-2007
    • Mobile, AL (USA)
    • Posts 226
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    I know many on this forum are tired of my annual pleas for B&O to "embrace Apple".  I realize that I sound like a broken record (no pun intended), but to those of us that love both B&O and Apple, the union of these companies (even if only in a very ancillary way) simply makes so much sense.  Many of us have long felt that B&O would reap great rewards if, as Soundproof suggested, they left the software to Apple and concentrated on making good TVs and speakers that, at the very least, offered the option to play well with Apple.

    I can remember some of us predicting Apple's ascendancy on the old Beoworld site, and being told that B&O didn't need Apple, B&O wanted to design their own software and make it more Windows-based to appeal to a larger market, B&O didn't need to lower their standards to facilitate playing compressed audio, etc., etc.  We were gently teased for our loony loyalty toward Apple and the idea that Apple and Apple products would become as ubiquitous as they now have was usually discounted by our fellow Beoworlders.

    I don't pretend to speak for all the Beoworld Apple loyalists, but for some of us it's been incredibly frustrating watching B&O ineptly navigate this veritable sea-change in media acquisition and consumption.  This AirPlay stuff is just one example of lost opportunity on B&O's part.  For a more personal example, I wouldn't buy the Beosound 5 because it doesn't play well with my Apple stuff.  If, however, B&O made it easy to connect their speakers in a seamless and elegant way with an iTunes driven computer or Apple TV (i.e. sans an audio head unit), I would be purchasing more ALT speakers.  As it stands now, though, I'm being cautious about B&O purchases and I suspect that others are, too.  That isn't good for B&O, particularly not in this economy.

    Mark D

    P.S.  Just so y'all don't think me a total B&O traitor that has completely forsaken the brand, I'm about to purchase a BV7-55".  Its PUC will drive a new Apple TV.

    Mark D
  • 09-03-2010 2:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    soundproof:

    Yesterday, Apple removed the CD from its iTunes logo, declaring that container for content to be passé.

    I think keeping/including it still involves some license fees...

    Just like the iPhone 4 antenna issue - the antenna configurations that work have been patented by other manufacturers, and Apple doesn't want to pay (and didn't think some counter-patent court issue could've solved this).

    More to the topic, I think I just saw LG introduce a cooler-freezer with an iPod dock. That should put Smeg out of business Stick out tongue

    -mika

  • 09-03-2010 2:34 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    I don't think this is an Apple/B&O discussion - or it shouldn't be.

    It's a question of whether today's most used formats for moving digital content to consumers can be easily accessed through B&O equipment or not. Apple are not alone in offering digital content through the internet.

    At some point B&O chose to not be in the vanguard in providing easy integration to new formats, and it has nothing to do with B&O electing to hang back relative to new technologies, because they have been trying their own hand with HDR, BeoMedia, etc.
    If the reason is that B&O don't want their customers to have access to any other formats than those provided by B&O, then I fear it's a flawed strategy. Look at Spotify relative to what Apple is offering, for instance - a completely independent effort that Apple couldn't have predicted, and which I would claim is superior to Apple's. And there will be other offerings that are superior to Spotify's. (And we do have Pandora and other streaming services, of course, doing it their way.)

    Naxosradio has 70 channels of streamed content from their vast music cavern, complemented by offerings from a lot of other providers.
    USD 20/year. http://www.naxosradio.com/home.asp

    Imagine a BeoSound 5 that asked you whether you wanted to add Naxosradio to your available streams, together with Spotify - and/or Airplay.

    Or what if the integration of the Naxos Music Library was offered through your High-Def television screens and music system. Wouldn't that be nice? Having access to thousands upon thousands of recordings, liner notes, professional annotations, the scores - easily accessed through period, composer, performer, etc? With recordings not only from Naxos but from  BIS, Chandos, Hänssler, Hungaroton, Marco Polo, Ondine.
    http://www.naxosmusiclibrary.com/home.asp?rurl=/default.asp 

    What a way to make B&O shine, compared to other providers ... For instance, you can add Deutsche Grammophon to that mix. Access to their catalogue, by just placing your finger on the interactive touch screen of the BeoSound 5, which had a removable iPad-like interactive control surface that you could bring along with you, wherever you are in your home. Or just listen to the free DGG-Radio: http://deutschegrammophon-web.snowite.fr/catalogPlayer/deutschegrammophon/deutschegrammophon.php?collectionID=1

    Just saying. I think convenient access to all of these services would be attractive to anyone, including the megacustomers Trip relies upon - of which there aren't enough to build the brand's presence in peoples' heads.

     

  • 09-03-2010 3:44 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    What is the difference between Airport Express & Airplay? If it suffers the same sound delay between the main product & linkrooms fed by an Airport Express base for instance, I won't use it, that's one reason why I'm not having any Airport Express base at the moment..If the sound delay issue has been solved, then it could become an interesting solution.

    Going back to B&O's digital approach, I don't understand why they don't leave the hardware to other companies, and simply fit all their BeoSounds & BeoVisions with USB or Ethernet inputs(or wi-fi receivers), so that each product accesses a local USB device, or distant network drive, for audio file playback on BeoSounds & video file playback on BeoVisions...is it so complicated? The rest of the world manufacturers are offering this today..Sad

    Reunion Island is greeting you!

  • 09-03-2010 2:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    the first AirPlay speaker:

    http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/03/ihome-teases-first-airplay-compatible-portable-speaker-dock/

    I hope the B&O dock will have this too. Otherwise, it would have negative impacts on other B&O products: a dock which costs multiple times more and lacks this important feature, will substantiate the argument of overpriced audio and video equipment.

  • 09-03-2010 3:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Chrisreunion:

    What is the difference between Airport Express & Airplay? If it suffers the same sound delay between the main product & linkrooms fed by an Airport Express base for instance, I won't use it, that's one reason why I'm not having any Airport Express base at the moment..If the sound delay issue has been solved, then it could become an interesting solution.

    Going back to B&O's digital approach, I don't understand why they don't leave the hardware to other companies, and simply fit all their BeoSounds & BeoVisions with USB or Ethernet inputs(or wi-fi receivers), so that each product accesses a local USB device, or distant network drive, for audio file playback on BeoSounds & video file playback on BeoVisions...is it so complicated? The rest of the world manufacturers are offering this today..Sad

    Yes the delays and constant outages were intolerable for me.  I had a 3 zone airport express network set up and it was bad.  Finally, I broke down and got a Sonos setup and it is quite amazing.  I love the ability to stream Pandora for free which is incredibly cool.  I know the quality isn't lossless but it is great for casual music and especially discovering new bands/music.  Plus, you can send different music to each separate zone.  

     

     

  • 09-16-2010 2:48 PM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-19-2007
    • Mobile, AL (USA)
    • Posts 226
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    More squeaking from the broken record (i.e. me):

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/16/apples_ambitious_airplay_airprint_plans_detailed_in_patent_applications.html

    Mark D
  • 09-17-2010 4:21 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    BeoNut1 --  Earlier this year, Meridian launched the following app for Sooloos, and together with a number of other manufacturers, they are adopting the standard for playback Apple is developing.

  • 09-17-2010 12:35 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Is going to be interesting if Airplay actually works.

     

    Airtunes/Airport express wasn't for quite a few people. Honestly I would happy if they could bring out a proper remote app for the Ipad since the music has to be in itunes anyhow.

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 09-17-2010 4:46 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    - The dock market of today will move from a device holder/charger to being a receiver of wireless media. Quality will be exceptional as N bandwidth is more than plentiful for audio and HD video. The smart companies will jump on AirPlay, because customers whether middle class or wealthy are increasingly likely using an Apple technology stack in some way (be it an iPhone or other Apple iProducts.) 

    - In the customer high-end audio setup market, this is being further proved out by the big custom names embracing devices like iPad to provide a more elegant, integrated and lower cost interface into their systems. I wish Trip all the best with the $500k systems, but even Footballers are smart enough to expect their stuff to work together and provide easy access to media which will increasingly be cloud based. Madonna's got one and I'm sure Posh has one too ;-)

    - I don't understand why people say the new AppleTV2 is a lesser solution than the current model. Hard disk based devices like the AppleTV1 and BS5 are limited and effectively dead technology. Cloud based and centralised media has been on the cards as the way forward for at least 2 years.  ATV2 has an A4 processor running iOS that is ripe for new downstream features - maybe even Apps - in just the same way ATV1 turned from a glorified iPod in V1 to movie rentals and much more by V3. Has the BS5 seen this level of feature development? I hope a YouView app becomes available for ATV2.

  • 09-17-2010 6:47 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    jk1002:

    Is going to be interesting if Airplay actually works.

     

    Airtunes/Airport express wasn't for quite a few people. Honestly I would happy if they could bring out a proper remote app for the Ipad since the music has to be in itunes anyhow.

    sudden burst of rumours and speculation about hidden capabilities in iOS 4.2 and what it means for AirPlay and video ..... see www.macrumors.com

     

    First B&O (1976) was a Beogram 1500 ... latest (2011) change has been to couple the BL11 with the BL6Ks *sounds superb*

  • 09-17-2010 6:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    elephant:

    sudden burst of rumours and speculation about hidden capabilities in iOS 4.2 and what it means for AirPlay and video ..... see www.macrumors.com

    Also in the news: Any iPhone app that can play video will be able to send its video to ATV2. 

  • 09-18-2010 3:57 AM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Trip, can I respectfully disagree around your analysis of this.

    The iPod as the Audio Master is pre- August 2010. You'll see these products very quickly replaced by Wireless receivers. The market will shift very quickly on this. I'd suggest as much as 25% in time for Christmas selling season. And you are right, this is the lower end of the market - but also the higher end in respect of the bedroom and kitchen markets.

    Can I ask, how many of your $500k customers have not digitised their music and stored it on a PC/Mac somewhere? I just don't understand why you say that they are not concerned about how their library is stored and leveraged across home and mobile devices. I hope nobody really uses a BS5 as a starting point as that would be content suicide in my opinion. I have to have my content stored in at least 3 places to feel comfortable - the value is almost irreplaceable. The best solution is 2 places in the home and 1 out in the cloud. I'm glad to see B&O are learning here as can be seen with the Encore and NAS support - but its still too little and remains a relatively fragmented environment for digital content.

     

     

  • 09-18-2010 7:59 AM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-19-2007
    • Mobile, AL (USA)
    • Posts 226
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Soundproof,

    Thank you for showing that Meridian software for the iPad - that is just one example of what I suspect will be an onslaught of high-end audio companies embracing some of these new standards to make sure their products aren't "left in the cold" when it comes to integrating with the digital world.

    If that weren't proof enough, the Apple-centric websites that weenies like me peruse to keep up with the latest Apple rumors (much like I do here at Beoworld to keep up with the latest B&O offerings) are abuzz with the gradual realization that AirPlay may very well represent the standard by which easy home-electronic integration is finally facilitated (think fridges, air conditioning, etc.).  In typical Apple fashion, AirPlay (IMHO) is another Trojan horse which is much more than it might seem on the surface.  It would appear that, once again, Apple is several chess moves ahead of the rest of the industry.

    Is there any way that we can contact someone at B&O and beg them to please, please, please look in to adopting this standard?

    Mark D

    Mark D
  • 09-18-2010 4:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    If I understand correct airplay seems to be able to stream to existing airport express stations. Which means its the same crappy solution that Itunes has. I can stream videos from Itunes Library to Itunes Library today as well, I haven't tried streaming onto my generation 1 ATV yet but I am guessing that would work as well.

    So the only news is really that wireless streaming now runs on an iphone/ipad.

    Which means it probably doesn't work for me as neither my airport express stations nor my ATV does pick up streamed music flawlessly.

    That said, i live in a condo building with many wifi networks around.

     

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 09-18-2010 4:11 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    You need to make sure all your Macs and Airport are in Wifi N, otherwise there is not enough bandwidth.

    You can analyse the spectrum and select a different frequency. I have no issues at all. There are possibly 20 wifi networks I can see around me.

  • 09-18-2010 4:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    For video it might need N. I am talking music. i had at some point 3 airport express and they just don't work right. Even if I run them in a dedicated network.

    Neither does my ATV pick up the signal correct and it did run in an all Apple network with the airport extreme as a router.

    If you google the topic, there is quite a few users with these issues.

    I will obviously give it a try, it should run on my old ATV me thinks ... I probabyl pick up the 99$ one as well ...

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 09-18-2010 4:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    I have all wireless N units and had 3 zones with airport express.  No other wireless interference.  LOTS of sync problems and dropouts.  Even if *you* don't have any issues *A LOT* of people report issues with poor music sync and drop outs.  On the other hand, complaints of that type are extremely rare with Sonos.  The difference in quality of Sonos' mesh network is astounding.  I just purchased a Sonos system as noted in a previous post based on recommendations on these forums.  Apple may get there some day but they aren't there noww

  • 09-18-2010 4:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Regarding the quality... (when it works) Airport transport the music with a lossless compression. So there is no loss in quality due to the transmission (I am not talking about dropouts here). 

    The DAC in the Aiport express may be bad. You can use the digital connexion and an external DAC.

  • 09-18-2010 4:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    No, the sound wasn't bad at all. Dropouts is the issue.

    To me the airplay is not such a big deal. Its convenient because I can start watching on the TV and finish of on the ipad.

    Also, I can purchase on the IPAD but not on the ATV.

    I don't see though that this is a must have feature for B&O to pick up. It as easy to just connect a 99$ ATV that B&O can fully control through STB .....

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 09-18-2010 6:26 PM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-19-2007
    • Mobile, AL (USA)
    • Posts 226
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    JK1002,

    I understand your point about simply hooking an Apple TV to your B&O system, and, in fact, I plan to do that very thing when I get a BV-7 in the near future.  However, I feel B&O's audio head units and their upcoming "iPod dock speaker set-up" would greatly benefit from AirPlay technology in that those of us with Apple gear would more easily get our digital music played.  For instance, as I pointed out earlier, B&O makes it arduous for us Apple people to get our iTunes files on to their products in a native way - that's why I never considered a BS-5 despite the fact that I find the inherent concept appealing (i.e. that of a digital jukebox that attaches to Beolabs).

    What I'd love is a B&O AirPlay device that was relatively simple; all it needs is an inherent DAC, some 5 pin DIN connectors for Beolabs, and a way to control volume that is consistent with AirPlay's protocols.  If B&O had this sort of device, their self-amplified, ALT-equipped speakers would provide the perfect sound solution, IMHO, for a simple, yet high-end, purist, audio system.  It'd give instant added value to their excellent line of speakers and they could leverage the fact that they have ICE speakers that don't need separate components (like receivers, amps, etc.).

    The appeal of B&O to me is not only their aforementioned speaker technologies, but also their history of providing long-term value.  I want B&O's "future-proof-ness" to continue; in fact, as someone who has to save for B&O products, I'm going to demand this of B&O equipment in the future as I can't afford to spend that kind of money otherwise.

    I think these Apple technologies represent a significant part of the future, AND I want to see B&O parlay their attributes (self-amplified speakers, tuned flat panels, the possibility for a "phantom" center channel, etc.) in such a way that embraces these emerging standards.

    Mark

    Mark D
  • 09-18-2010 7:22 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    Ahem. Am I missing something here? You can just connect an Airport Express to your B&O Speaker. Since airplay seems to be working just like Itunes streaming you should be able to regulate volume just like you can today.

    I take your point though, that if they would integrate that fully and one would not have to go through AUX and you could do the volume control thing from the IOS4 device and use your Beosound/Beocenter.

    Their IPOD dock is actually always was dead at start to me. This does not fit their strategy, i.e. high end audio and television. It seems more like a parting gift from the prior CEO.

    Anyhow, I wouldn't be surprised if we see more B&O on Iphones and Ipads. That Masterlink gateway was probably just a start.

    Lastly lets all hail the lord that B&O has the STB and that we can control ATV through Beo4, Beo5 and hopefully Beo6.

     

    I read somewhere a quote from Steve Jobs in reference to the new ATV that he was concerned about all these remotes in the living room.

     

    I am not.

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 09-19-2010 1:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    The key technology differences between what was possible yesterday and today is:

    - Ability to transport video as well as audio.
    - Enhanced capabilities with control over device to device synching - not just iTunes host to device. 
    - 3rd party support.

    For those of you concerned about bandwidth or dropouts, I would suggest looking at the latest simultaneous dual band routers like the current Airport Extreme (Netgear and others etc.) that support 5GHz to the ATV and 2.4GHz to your other devices. The only thing with 5GHz is that the device needs to be in relatively close proximity to work well, otherwise it'll switch to the 2.4Ghz network (or you could force it by naming the 5GHz network on a seperate SSID - but speed is impacted quite quickly as distance increases - which is less the case on the 2.4Ghz band.)  The Airport Express is 2.4GHz B/G/N only and great for extending networks around the house for your iPhone/iPad for general purpose internet.

    Hope that helps

     

  • 11-22-2010 3:28 PM In reply to

    • patvg
    • Not Ranked
      Male
    • Joined on 05-04-2007
    • Belgium
    • Posts 2
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    time to update for those who did not understand, yet : 

    http://gizmodo.com/5696379/how-apples-airplay-is-about-to-change-your-life

    I am a huge B&O customer, but for years I'm asking/telling :

    -I'm more than happy with my Macs & iTunes, I only buy music through iTunes

    -I like Apple's approach of iPhoto, iMovie

    -I have everything on a dedicated Mac, affordable, with TimeMachine backup ...

    -I have great iPhone, iPad, iPod touch apps, having access to that centralised data

    ....

    What is the success of Apple ? They put the customer central, together with what that customer wants, needs and makes hum happy. Unfortunately, that's NOT what B&0 is doing. They want to impose their own "standards", getting out their own mobile phones, their own music library systems, their (silly) Windows based media centre (embedded, VERY old technology!), an iPort powered by an unofficial non-supported 3rd party software (for Mac)....

    I DO have to upgrade my B&O system (BV6, BV Avant, BV5, BS...).. I like the B&O design, but today, I want more, more than the MasterLink which is in the meantime  -what - 25 years old ? Even if I decide to upgrade/change, I'll need to make lot's of hardware investments, including pulling new cables to new places in my house. Why is it so hard to understand that what I want and so many others is something simple like AirTunes, AirPlay , WIFI ? Stream iTunes music seamlessly over and to my entire B&O system ? 

    If B&O is smart and wants to survive, they adopt AirPlay, iTunes, appleTV totally. They should integrate appleTV in all BeoVision systems. Plug in to iPhoto ...

    This would open new markets to B&O.

    Today, spending 500.000 for a B&O system which does not do what I want : that's something B&O is still selling, but only to people who pay that amount of money just to show they have B&O, rather than using it in a "contemporary way" ...

  • 11-22-2010 4:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Apple's "AirPlay" and B&O

    I really don't think B&O should try to integrate Airplay.  The tech behind Airplay is nothing new.  There are many people that have sync issues and dropouts with Airplay when used to stream to multiple audio sources.  It is a low-priced streaming solution.  B&O would be much better off working with a company like Sonos or some other high-end solution.  Compared to Sonos, Airplay is laughable. I've used both.  Anyone want to buy my Airport Express (US)?

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