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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 08-26-2010 7:11 PM by david coyne. 148 replies.
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  • 08-16-2010 7:15 AM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    Electrified

    Much as I would like to dissect your post and repaste it across several lines - rendering much of the content incomprehensible and taking it completely out of context - I won't as a courtesy to you.

    All I will say is that too much choice can give you a headache. And you're wrong about 8 tracks as we had a brief fling with them here in the UK too around the mid-70s. You weren't to know as you're in Denmark, but wind your neck in a bit son.

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 08-16-2010 7:25 AM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    I still don't understand the 'too much choice' - it's the same choice?  It's the same music collection.  You know what you have, you decide what the listen to.

    It's just that instead of having to make it in advance, you can make it whenever you fancy.

    You could always write down 6 albums at home on a post it note and stick it on your dashboard to remind you that's all you're allowed to listen to.  Or, if you're feeling more technologically inclined, shove 6 albums in a playlist.

  • 08-16-2010 8:32 AM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    The point of MP3's etc is that it's a competitively priced technology providing easy portable access to thousands of items of music.

    But the choice of the best system/ easiest to use system is not so straight forward. I don't want to spend lots of time setting-up equipment only to find that I've stored everything at an inadequate standard for 'High Fidelity' listening. Nor do I want to have everything stored on-line or encoded in such a way that if I stop a subscription everything is lost. Nor do I want to be dependent on one system.

    That's why, for a lot of us, the CD still has its attractions, as does listening to  radio.

    Graham

     

    I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure. [W C Fields]

  • 08-16-2010 8:48 AM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    Which is why I would recommend storing your music and other files in at least lossless versions (which will do excellently.)

    As many will discover, iTunes now makes it possible for you to port your music to your iPod or iPhone in a lower resolution than the one you are storing the music in, thus making it possible to have lossless (or full resolution, for that matter) on your harddrive, and a lossy format on your iPhone or iPod, either for all your music, or for selected files.

     

  • 08-16-2010 11:55 AM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    Yup, lossless is the way to future proof your collection. And if you "need" some lossy version of it, you just make it. The lossless will still be there as your source.

    Edit:
    As anyone knowledgeable enough will tell you, a lossless version is just that: Lossless. The resulting PCM data (the actual audio data) is bit-for-bit the exact same as the original file, your cd. And what's so excellent about that?

    You can spend exactly zero amount of time pulling hairs out as if you at a later date choose to use Macs and Apple's variant, you simply convert them to it with absolutely no loss whatsoever. A fortnight later, you may decide that you want open source, so you choose FLAC - but only after having tried WMA Lossless. Then in a spat of fury of all the politics, you decide you want to go back to Apple's lossless version, so you convert it once again.

    Now, you may be worried that all that going back and forth have caused the audio data to degrade, so you MD5 checksum the original data (wav, aif, CDA, depending on what you machine recognises it as), and then go convert your Apple Lossless (or whatever you ended up with) to the same format as the cd's sound (cda, wav, aif as earilier), and you will notice it has the exact same checksum.

    The reason is, of course, that it is lossless. Litterally. So you won't have any problems later down the line. It's the same as on your cd's.

     

     

  • 08-16-2010 12:14 PM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    j0hnbarker:

    Electrified

    Much as I would like to dissect your post and repaste it across several lines - rendering much of the content incomprehensible and taking it completely out of context - I won't as a courtesy to you.

    There is nothing out of context, nor anything incomprehensible with regards to the way I do it. I am taking your notions and unsubstantiated claims and counter them, one by one. To pretend you're doing anything out of courtesy to anyone in this discussion is joke, and it's a sure sign that you have nothing to bring to the table.

    So, if "too much choice" is giving you a headache, how many cds and tracks do you choose from when at home?

    Ever been to a library? Talk about choice. Boy, let's go back to the days of handwritten books. Otherwise we can't handle the choice!Seriously ...

     

     

    All I will say is that too much choice can give you a headache. And you're wrong about 8 tracks as we had a brief fling with them here in the UK too around the mid-70s.

    I didn't say that the US was the only place it was sold, I said:

    8-track was only cool and popular in the US

    So, some might have gotten it in the UK, but that doesn't mean it gained ground, became popular, nor was particularly cool.

     

    You weren't to know as you're in Denmark, but wind your neck in a bit son.

    Read what I write instead of imagining things and ignoring the rest.

     

     

     

  • 08-16-2010 12:16 PM In reply to

    • Stan
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    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    Electrified:

    You can spend exactly zero amount of time pulling hairs out as if you at a later date choose to use Macs and Apple's variant, you simply convert them to it with absolutely no loss whatsoever. A fortnight later, you may decide that you want open source, so you choose FLAC - but only after having tried WMA Lossless. Then in a spat of fury of all the politics, you decide you want to go back to Apple's lossless version, so you convert it once again.

     

    So how exactly does one convert Apple lossless to WMA lossless?  All the programs that I've found that advertise Apple to WMA only create lossy WMA.  Any method that requires burning an intermediate CD doesn't count...  Free is nice, but I'd be willing to pay for this...

    Stan

  • 08-16-2010 12:19 PM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    By far the best piece of software I've found for all things music conversion is dbPowerAmp Music Converter.

  • 08-16-2010 12:25 PM In reply to

    • Evan
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    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    Electrified:

    Car radios with inbuilt storage, or a plug for either an iPod or a thumb drive is excellent as well. You can keep it there, and have all your music with you, easy to choose, and you can even bring podcasts and audio books ad naseum with you instead of those ten cd's or more that some people prefer to bring and swap constantly.

     

     

    When you insert a CD into a new Acura with a "Technology Package" will automatically rip it to the inbuilt HDD. I thought this was very cool, sort of reminds me of iTunes. When this feature was added, Acura (Honda) removed the 6 CD changer and reverted back to a single. These cars also have the 3.5mm input as well as two USB 2.0 ports with an iPod interface on the nav screen. So many options!

    Evan

     

  • 08-16-2010 12:29 PM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    Yup, but if using a mac, there's also FLAC plugins to go with itunes. Personally, I use Winamp  (the paid -for version)

    But before we go into details, your mentioning of an intermediate cd reminds of the way people "removed" the DRM: Start out with an MP4/MP3 (i.e. lossy), convert by burning to wav on a cd, rerip (i.e. convert) to MP3/mp4 again. Resulting in a degrading of the audio.

    My point is,  if your music collection is in a lossy format, there is no point in trying to make it lossless. What is tossed out and missing will continue to be missing.

    The part about creating lossy wma has me scratching my head. Perhaps it's the deal where you have to set the "import settings" correctly. If it shows wma lossless, the resulting file should be WMA lossless. Or if using other software, it should not give you that sort of troubles.

     

     

     

     

  • 08-16-2010 12:30 PM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    evman140:
    When you insert a CD into a new Acura with a "Technology Package" will automatically rip it to the inbuilt HDD. I thought this was very cool, sort of reminds me of iTunes. When this feature was added, Acura (Honda) removed the 6 CD changer and reverted back to a single. These cars also have the 3.5mm input as well as two USB 2.0 ports with an iPod interface on the nav screen. So many options!

     

    Haha, yeah, we can't handle the choice. Take it away from us. Please!!!

    Seriously, though, that is nice. Hat's off to Honda! :)

     

  • 08-16-2010 1:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    Electrified:

    Ever been to a library? Talk about choice. Boy, let's go back to the days of handwritten books. Otherwise we can't handle the choice!Seriously ...

    Leccy

    Are you being facetious? To take your analogy a bit further then how would my own music collection be comparable with a library? I choose what is in my music collection. A public library has books chosen by the librarians. The two are not the same. And you're a journalist? 

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 08-16-2010 1:19 PM In reply to

    • Electrified
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    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    j0hnbarker:

    Electrified:

    Ever been to a library? Talk about choice. Boy, let's go back to the days of handwritten books. Otherwise we can't handle the choice!Seriously ...

    Leccy

    Are you being facetious? To take your analogy a bit further then how would my own music collection be comparable with a library? I choose what is in my music collection. A public library has books chosen by the librarians. The two are not the same. And you're a journalist? 

    I see you have read my other posts; Yes, I'm a journalist.

    It's called an "analogy" for a reason: There's also a difference in the medium in a record collection (discoteque) and a library - most things in a library are per definition texts. But neither differences have any bearing on the analogy.

    My point was - and still is - that even such things as libraries works and functions splendidly, even if you have a "a lot of choice", so using your own music collection shouldn't confuse you so much as to having "too much choice".

    You also choose what's in your music collection if it's a file based system, but by your argument, if all one's music is collected on a harddisk rather than on shelving, suddenly there's "too much choice".

     

    P.S. I like "Leccy". It sounds like a real name.

     

  • 08-16-2010 1:44 PM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    Electrified, I think you're on the right track generally speaking. Agreement to disagree seems to be the most logical course though. I can't see what additional pages to this thread are going to yield.

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 08-16-2010 1:50 PM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    I follow this interesting discussion since the start.

    Every time I felt the urge to response, so now I do:

     

    What was the point of keeping fire....... What was the point of the wheel............

     

    later in history:

    What was the point of the gramophone, the record and...........why the change to CD..............

     

    the point is evolution.

     

    You see the advantage or you don't, but keep in mind that the ancestor with fire had more changes than their fellow earthlings!

     


  • 08-16-2010 2:39 PM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    TripEnglish:
    I can't see what additional pages to this thread are going to yield.

    Yes, i gotta agree with mr trip here...Big Smile

    I, the original poster, retired from this thread some time ago Laughing

    I wish my ebay listings would run & run as much as this thread hasLaughingLaughing

    thanks for all ur contributions anyway....very entertaining Laughing my thanks even go to that comic book type chap...

     

     

     LaughingLaughingLaughing

    Michael

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  • 08-16-2010 3:55 PM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    Electrified:

    j0hnbarker:

    Electrified:

    Ever been to a library? Talk about choice. Boy, let's go back to the days of handwritten books. Otherwise we can't handle the choice!Seriously ...

    Leccy

    Are you being facetious? To take your analogy a bit further then how would my own music collection be comparable with a library? I choose what is in my music collection. A public library has books chosen by the librarians. The two are not the same. And you're a journalist? 

    I see you have read my other posts; Yes, I'm a journalist.

    It's called an "analogy" for a reason: There's also a difference in the medium in a record collection (discoteque) and a library - most things in a library are per definition texts. But neither differences have any bearing on the analogy.

    My point was - and still is - that even such things as libraries works and functions splendidly, even if you have a "a lot of choice", so using your own music collection shouldn't confuse you so much as to having "too much choice".

    You also choose what's in your music collection if it's a file based system, but by your argument, if all one's music is collected on a harddisk rather than on shelving, suddenly there's "too much choice".

     

    P.S. I like "Leccy". It sounds like a real name.

     

    Very cogent argument. I, for one, am used to the answering of individual points in the way you have done and find this the most useful way to respond to a number of statements in one post. It is commonly used at skeptic web sites which I frequent. I see you are registered in Denmark but find it hard to imagine that you are not a native English speaker.

    As Trip and the OP have stated, this thread would seem to have run its course, and the original question would appear to have been answered very well. Thank you to all the participants.

  • 08-16-2010 4:14 PM In reply to

    • Electrified
    • Top 150 Contributor
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    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    Thanks, Peter Embarrassed

  • 08-16-2010 5:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    Peter :

    Electrified:

    j0hnbarker:

    Electrified:

    Ever been to a library? Talk about choice. Boy, let's go back to the days of handwritten books. Otherwise we can't handle the choice!Seriously ...

    Leccy

    Are you being facetious? To take your analogy a bit further then how would my own music collection be comparable with a library? I choose what is in my music collection. A public library has books chosen by the librarians. The two are not the same. And you're a journalist? 

    I see you have read my other posts; Yes, I'm a journalist.

    It's called an "analogy" for a reason: There's also a difference in the medium in a record collection (discoteque) and a library - most things in a library are per definition texts. But neither differences have any bearing on the analogy.

    My point was - and still is - that even such things as libraries works and functions splendidly, even if you have a "a lot of choice", so using your own music collection shouldn't confuse you so much as to having "too much choice".

    You also choose what's in your music collection if it's a file based system, but by your argument, if all one's music is collected on a harddisk rather than on shelving, suddenly there's "too much choice".

     

    P.S. I like "Leccy". It sounds like a real name.

     

    Very cogent argument. I, for one, am used to the answering of individual points in the way you have done and find this the most useful way to respond to a number of statements in one post. It is commonly used at skeptic web sites which I frequent. I see you are registered in Denmark but find it hard to imagine that you are not a native English speaker.

    As Trip and the OP have stated, this thread would seem to have run its course, and the original question would appear to have been answered very well. Thank you to all the participants.

    Thanks fella.

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 08-23-2010 8:08 PM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    9 LEE:

    j0hnbarker:

    Puncher:

    I prefer CD's for intimate occasions - it prevents having to stop what you're doing to change the disc over!Whistle

     

    I find 45s are more than adequate playing time....

     

     

    I find the 30 second sample on itunes more than enough these days.. Indifferent

    LaughingLaughing

     

    I prefer my wife for intimate occasions..... Stick out tongue

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  • 08-23-2010 9:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    wow!! what a thread!!!

    I'd like to just make one more point if I may...

    • With a radio, you get to choose which station you want to listen to, with the station choosing the music (and the ability to change stations)
    • With a CD/Vinyl/Tape you get to choose the limited tracks you have with you at the time. These are limited by the amount each medium holds. Generally (for argument's sake) 10 tracks each
    • With an iPod/MP3 player you gain the ability to choose from a lot more tracks depending on the storage size (I have over 4000 on my iPod)

    Each choice of medium offers different positives and negatives. Listening quality versus storage space versus ability to choose.

    On a very basic level, and going back to the OP's question; the main point of 'mp3, ipods, etc....' is the portibility and increased storage space (and thereby the ability to have a greater number of instant 'choices'). If you don't have this need, then you don't have a need for 'mp3, ipods, etc.....'

    Stick with what floats your boat Yes -  thumbs up

    My B&O: 2009 Catalogue and Pricelist

  • 08-26-2010 5:16 PM In reply to

    • richtoy
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    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    9 LEE:

    j0hnbarker:

    Puncher:

    I prefer CD's for intimate occasions - it prevents having to stop what you're doing to change the disc over!Whistle

     

    I find 45s are more than adequate playing time....

     

     

    I find the 30 second sample on itunes more than enough these days.. Indifferent

    LaughingLaughing

     

    More and stronger Belgian Beer sorts out these issues... Beer

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  • 08-26-2010 7:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    A quick summary from me (at the risk or repeating myself)

    I use ipods, digital music when I require convenience... e.g on the move or during a party where I dont have time to keep changing vinyl, c.ds etc. It is great for these purposes

    But for me, most of the music I want to download digitally, I can't get at high enough bit rates to really enjoy the sound quality (its fine for parites). Yes i know there are sites that have music at lossless rates, but they are still rare and they dont generally have as an example the latest freemasons remix of Amanda Wilsons latest dance track. If i want a jazz artist or Greig's complete works, sure I can download them at a very high bit rate from a website.

    I still buy CD's where I can and rip them to my mac, store them in itunes and play them back to my system via a cambridge audio DAC (I find the sound quality via the mac sound card very below par). I actually also buy vinyl when i can.  New 12' vinyl sounds fabulous- usually I have to order this from the UK though or wait til Im back in the country.

    In short, all the forms of music storage/playback have their value and I use them all.. I still prefer the sound quality of vinyl and cd.

    David

    BV8-40, BC6-26, BC2, Beolab 9's, Beogram 7000, Beogram 9500, Beoport, Beotalk 1200, Beocom 6000, Beolit 1000, 800, 700, 600, 400

  • 08-26-2010 7:11 PM In reply to

    Re: Can people tell me what exactly is the point of mp3, ipods, etc......?

    Oh well, when writing the above post I appear to have completey missed all posts on page 6.... Apologies for adding my ten pence worth when the thread was clearly OVER!!!!  My timing is usually impecable......  I'm blaming the lack of belgian beer for not 'arriving' soon enough!

     

    David

    BV8-40, BC6-26, BC2, Beolab 9's, Beogram 7000, Beogram 9500, Beoport, Beotalk 1200, Beocom 6000, Beolit 1000, 800, 700, 600, 400

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