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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 07-16-2010 3:33 PM by Steve at Sounds Heavenly. 20 replies.
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  • 07-13-2010 3:31 PM

    • 9 LEE
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    DAC with Mac?

    I really know nothing about DAC's, but i picked up an Audio Note DAC Zero today along with some other B&O bits.

    Can i use it with my new (well, 2009) iMac 24" and my BeoLab 3's?  If so, i assume it'll be miles better than the DAC in the MAC and therefore an improvement?  I listen to a lot of music on my Mac as i spend most evenings working on the computer.

    Sorry if it's a dumb question - it's something i've never looked into until i was handed one today!

    Lee

    Smile

    BeoWorld - Everything Bang & Olufsen

  • 07-13-2010 3:41 PM In reply to

    Re: DAC with Mac?

    Hi Lee,

    I don't know about the Audio Note DAC, however I bought a Cambridge Audio DAC Magic, that had excellent reviews everywhere including on this website, and I could hear the difference right away on my Mac Book Pro. Following general advice, I favoured the optical connection over the USB one, the only thing I had to adjust was the max. volume/line output on the Mac, because the DAC was far more dynamic than the Mac's soundcard, so at 100% volume there was too much saturation, I had to go down to 90% to get good sound. Overall, I would say the most noticeable differences were bass reproduction (truly amazing to hear!) & also micro-details in the music itself (air, breathing, stage opening). I use it mainly for NMUSIC/NRADIO and never really tested the CD quality of the Mac though.Smile

    Reunion Island is greeting you!

  • 07-13-2010 3:52 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Digital connection is coax. rather than optical and so I doubt you can connect your mac directly using the digital connection without an optical to coax adapter, so none of Soundproof's preferred galvanic isolation without the adapter (could be wrong, I'm not a maccite and so don't know available connections). The other options is USB. No drivers are required with USB connection, just plug and go (don't worry about anything you've read about jitter etc, you won't hear any adverse effects).

    Connect via USB and give it a blast (remember to start with volume at a minimum and turn up to comfortable listening levels).

    (See attached manual)

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 07-13-2010 4:09 PM In reply to

    Re: DAC with Mac?

    The analog OUTS are at 2.6V RMS, and that's safe for a pair of BL3s. Start with the volume low, as Puncher says.

    That DAC has a tube inside it, I believe. It's supposed to be very long life, but if you don't hear anything, then it could be that the tube needs to be replaced. You'll find a manual at the AN site.

  • 07-14-2010 3:45 AM In reply to

    • Dave
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    Re: DAC with Mac?

    9 LEE:

    I really know nothing about DAC's, but i picked up an Audio Note DAC Zero today along with some other B&O bits.

    Can i use it with my new (well, 2009) iMac 24" and my BeoLab 3's?  If so, i assume it'll be miles better than the DAC in the MAC and therefore an improvement?  I listen to a lot of music on my Mac as i spend most evenings working on the computer.

    Sorry if it's a dumb question - it's something i've never looked into until i was handed one today!

    Lee

    Smile

    Puncher and Soundproof are right, you should be able to connect that one via USB on the mac, easy, controlling the volume on the mac might be a bit naff though, so if you have a spare Beoport laying around you could integrate that and control the sound with a Beo4 and the 'BM link' software...

     

    I've just ventured into the DAC realm as well, and the sound quality is hugely better from the mac (a good DAC is a must IMHO especially when using ALT speakers), the DAC i use sounds equal to CD, provided the music files are encoded at a high bit rate.

     

    Enjoy :)

     

    “Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”

    Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.

     

     

  • 07-14-2010 4:09 AM In reply to

    Re: DAC with Mac?

    As far as controlling the volume, if you're using iTunes for your music then you can use the Remote app from Apple on the iphone and ipod touch to control volume as well as select music.
  • 07-14-2010 5:21 AM In reply to

    • Alex
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    Re: DAC with Mac?

    I wouldn't even think of plugging in the BeoLabs until you've got some sort of analogue volume control between the speakers and the DAC. Using a digital volume control inside apps is a disaster waiting to happen (think of how rubbish the volume control on YouTube, iPlayer or any other website is).

    Lately, Spotify have been putting all their adverts out a silly volume, and you can't turn them down with the built in volume control! Definitely one to avoid...

     

    I use a TC Electronic Level Pilot between my monitors and DAC, and it works a treat. Built like a tank, and it sounds great - very transparent! I've heard some volume controllers which definitely leave a mark on the sound. As the Level Pilot is designed to work with balanced audio (it has XLR connections), you will need adapter cables to connect into it! I'm sure Sounds Heavenly would be able to make you something!

     

    TC electronic level pilot

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  • 07-14-2010 7:25 AM In reply to

    • 9 LEE
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    Re: DAC with Mac?

    ... and that's what i love about BeoWorld - you ask a question, and it gets answered - perfectly!

    Okay - as a complete novice on Mac, DAC and connections - what do i need to do?

    As it stands, i am feeding my BeoLab 3's next to my iMac with a '3.5mm to twin Powerlink' cable from Steve at SoundsHeavenly.  Could anyone tell me exactly, step by step, what i need to do to get this working and sounding lovely!

    Here are the connections on the back of the DAC Zero..

    Lee

    Smile


    BeoWorld - Everything Bang & Olufsen

  • 07-14-2010 7:38 AM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: DAC with Mac?

    1. Find an optic to coax converter (as there don't seem to be an optical in on your DAC and the Mac is optical out)

    2. Find an optical cable in order to connect the converter to the mac. Connect the converter to the DAC with a coax cable.

    3. Find 2 RCA to Powerlink cables (Sounds Heavenly...) to connect the DAC to the Beolabs.

    Et voilà!

    (optionnal 4. : Follow Alex advice and get a volume knob to control everything... But maybe the DAC already has a volume knob?)

  • 07-14-2010 7:38 AM In reply to

    Re: DAC with Mac?

    They really went to town with the connections there! I think Alex is right though - you need a volume control. With mine, I run a digital output to the DAC from the Mac - single cable to the input - mine is optical though this looks like a straight electronic connection on yours. I then run the RCA outputs in my case to the AUX in of a receiver and also to the Beoport. These both have volume controls - the Beoport used to go to the Beolab 3s as well as the rest of the house and it did make a difference to the sound. It didn't stun me but I do have a PowerMac which may have a better soundcard in it.

  • 07-14-2010 7:47 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: DAC with Mac?

    The picture is missing a USB socket!!Surprise

    This is a different unit to the one I looked at and seems to only have digital coax In. I can't see a manual for a DAC-Zero.

     

    In this case to need an optical to coax converter unit (similar to this - there may be smaller/neater ones available) and a pair of RCA to powerlink cables for your BL3's (I'm sure Steve will sort you out with the best configuration). Also an optical cable and a digital coax cable.

    The optical cable will connect you mac to the adapter, the coax cable connects the adapter to the Dac. the phono leads go to the speakers.

    If it was me, I'd try without additional volume control and see how it suits you, if it causes you problems then any of the offered suggestions is reasonable.

     

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 07-14-2010 7:56 AM In reply to

    • 9 LEE
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    Re: DAC with Mac?

    The DAC Zero is a complicated beast with all these buttons on the fron...  hey, hang on! Laughing

     


    BeoWorld - Everything Bang & Olufsen

  • 07-14-2010 7:58 AM In reply to

    • 9 LEE
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    Re: DAC with Mac?

     

    Thanks very much for your advice everyone - especially 'mbee' -  i like idiots guides, they suit me well.. Whistle

    I'll report back with my findings...

    Lee

    Smile

     

    BeoWorld - Everything Bang & Olufsen

  • 07-14-2010 9:11 AM In reply to

    Re: DAC with Mac?

    Don't worry too much about the quality of the volume control in the Mac. In later versions of QuickTime that's been sorted. Here's a link to the Benchmark Wiki for connecting Macs to Dacs. Use the instructions for setting up the Mac to avoid processing of the sound.

    A neat tip if you want fine-grained volume control straight from the computer. Hold down the Option+Shift Keys while adjusting the volume up or down through the keyboard. 

    I have had BL3s connected directly to the output of a DAC without volume control, and made certain to set the computer to never output at full strength - but as the max that can go out of the AN (at least the one with the USB IN that's missing in yours) is 2.6V RMS I doubt you'd manage to damage the speakers if you do get full blast. But you will be doing some quick volume adjustments, followed by rubbing of ears later.

    With my present MAC>DAC setup I have the DAC set at almost max volume, and do all the adjustment via iPhone and iPod Touch, and I've never had any volume blast accidents. You get into the habit quickly.

    As you'll see from the Benchmark Wiki, QuickTime now does not affect the quality of the sound when you adjust volume. But follow the other instructions to ensure that you do not have any other processing of the sound taking place.

    Overall guide, with links to non Mac systems: http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/Computer_Audio_Playback_-_Setup_Guide

    Mac OSX guide: http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/OS_X_Audio_Playback_-_Setup_Guide

     

     

  • 07-14-2010 1:41 PM In reply to

    • js
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    Re: DAC with Mac?

    Soundproof,

    I intend to use a MacBookPro with a DacMagic (to be connected to a Beomaster and Beolab speakers).

    I intend to rip most of my CDs in Apple Lossless (ALAC) but I also intend to buy some music online (sadly mostly available in compressed formats only: AAC or MP3 320kbps). I also intend to sometimes play CDs on my MacBookPro internal player. Thus many different formats.

    Your link to the OS X Audio Playback Setup Guide says:
    "The output sample rate does not automatically change to follow the sample rate of the file being played.
    The user must set output sample rate to match the sample rate of the file being played. Failure to do so will introduce severe distortion due to sample rate conversion.
    Playlists with mixed sample rates cannot be played without sample rate conversion."

    This sounds worrying. So is there a way to avoid distortion when different formats are used (ALAC, AAC, MP3 320kbps), without having to constantly manually re-configure the settings (I certainly don't want to do so...)?

    Many thanks in advance for your advice, which is always very much appreciated.

    Kind regards, Jean-Sebastien

  • 07-14-2010 2:13 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: DAC with Mac?

    js:

    Soundproof,

    I intend to use a MacBookPro with a DacMagic (to be connected to a Beomaster and Beolab speakers).

    I intend to rip most of my CDs in Apple Lossless (ALAC) but I also intend to buy some music online (sadly mostly available in compressed formats only: AAC or MP3 320kbps). I also intend to sometimes play CDs on my MacBookPro internal player. Thus many different formats.

    Your link to the OS X Audio Playback Setup Guide says:
    "The output sample rate does not automatically change to follow the sample rate of the file being played.
    The user must set output sample rate to match the sample rate of the file being played. Failure to do so will introduce severe distortion due to sample rate conversion.
    Playlists with mixed sample rates cannot be played without sample rate conversion."

    This sounds worrying. So is there a way to avoid distortion when different formats are used (ALAC, AAC, MP3 320kbps), without having to constantly manually re-configure the settings (I certainly don't want to do so...)?

    Many thanks in advance for your advice, which is always very much appreciated.

    Kind regards, Jean-Sebastien

    Unless I'm mistaken about the point to which you refer, all the music types to which you refer will be replayed as 16-bit 44.1 KHz. Other types you might encounter are 16-bit 48KHz, or even 24-bit 48KHz, 88Khz, 96KHz or 192KHz (with the exception of the 16-bit 48KHz rate the others are only available as "high-def" downloads).

    As such you shouldn't have to change anything for any of the types you mentioned - I think!

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 07-14-2010 3:49 PM In reply to

    Re: DAC with Mac?

    Puncher is right. Most of the available formats, up to and including Redbook (what you find on a CD), is 16-bit/44.1kHz compatible, even if at lower resolutions. The word length you can set at 24 for all playback, if you're playing back 16-bit, it will just add 0s to the string, without changing the signal in any way.

    What matters is the sample rate, and when that is higher than 44.1kHz, you need to set the correct rate in order to avoid processing distortion.

    When I play back a 24/96 file, I just go to Audio MIDI Setup (in the Utilities folder) and set that rate - and then I change it back to 44.1 which is what most of my music is in.

    But it's important to change the rate, and it has to be done manually. There are some playback programs which do automatic sample rate recognition (Amara and Pure Music do so, I believe.) But otherwise, you have to set that manually.

    If you're ripping your CDs to harddisk in ALAC (Apple's lossless format), then you'll be in 16/44.1 - and about 92% of my music is in that format, which means I'm not doing that much manual shifting.

  • 07-14-2010 4:30 PM In reply to

    • js
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    Re: DAC with Mac?

    Puncher:

    all the music types to which you refer will be replayed as 16-bit 44.1 KHz.

    As such you shouldn't have to change anything for any of the types you mentioned - I think!

     

    soundproof:

    Puncher is right. Most of the available formats [...] is 16-bit/44.1kHz compatible, even if at lower resolutions.

    Puncher, Soundproof,

    Thank you very much for your replies. Sorry if that was a dumb question (well, I am learning...) Smile

     

  • 07-14-2010 5:05 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: DAC with Mac?

    js:

    Puncher:

    all the music types to which you refer will be replayed as 16-bit 44.1 KHz.

    As such you shouldn't have to change anything for any of the types you mentioned - I think!

     

    soundproof:

    Puncher is right. Most of the available formats [...] is 16-bit/44.1kHz compatible, even if at lower resolutions.

     

    Puncher, Soundproof,

    Thank you very much for your replies. Sorry if that was a dumb question (well, I am learning...) Smile

     

    Nothing dumb about it - you've read into it and asked the right questions, I didn't know either, that you could set 24-bit as a default! Now you understand your setup! - that's what forums are for.Yes -  thumbs up

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 07-14-2010 7:01 PM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: DAC with Mac?

    9 LEE:
    Thanks very much for your advice everyone - especially 'mbee' -  i like idiots guides, they suit me well.. Whistle

    Being a real idiot gives me special skills to write that kind of guides

    (Not kidding : I spent the afternoon trying to get sound back on a MkIII BV7 40's BL7-2 after disconnecting front right+left speakers and surround right+left speakers... I haven't touched any other cable, then there was no sound coming to the BL7 from the STB source... Had to (temporary) switch from HDMI to SCART to make everything works... So there are only 2 options : 1. BV7 needs a rocket scientist to masterize it b. I'm an idiot!)

  • 07-16-2010 3:33 PM In reply to

    Re: DAC with Mac?

    Wow, I think we've got almost every possible solution suggested here following Lee's question - I love BeoWorld!  Here's my £0.02 worth:-

    Basically, in my view, adding an external DAC to a computer is only half of the solution, as you then need a pre-amp/volume control between the DAC and the Beolab speakers to prevent the risk of accidentally playing them on full volume and to avoid the problems with (usually) nasty digital volume controls.  There are various ways of doing this:-

    My own personal approach would be to use the internal DAC on the Mac soundcard, as it is good (although not excellent) and I would then focus on ripping files using lossless coding to improve sound quality that way.  Ths should help the sound with no financial outlay and no extra boxes on the desk.  Several free lossless audio codecs can be found by googling "FLAC" and "Monkey's Audio" - either of these can really help improve what you hear compared to the low bitrate MP3's sold in some online music stores. Whistle
     
    However, if the DAC is already there, it may as well be used, so I would suggest adding Beoport to give full control of the sound, both in terms of volume, tone and the tracks being played, whilst making best use of the DACs improved sound quality.  Beoport is compatible with newer Macs, so there should be no problem there.
     
    The connection from the Mac to the DAC can be made via a standard A-B USB lead (the same as for connecting a printer) which should plug and play once the software is installed on the Mac, so nice and easy there.  You then just need a stereo phono to minijack lead (http://soundsheavenly.co.uk/hifistudio-ipodtorca.htm if I may be so bold) to link the DAC outputs into the audio in socket of the Beoport.

    All other connections from the Beoport are standard B&O (Powerlink, IR and Masterlink if required).  The golden rule is not to try connecting the speakers directly to the outputs of the DAC unless you are confident with all the Mac settings, as unless you've got the various digital volume adjustments under control, then they will be LOUD........

    Hope this helps!

    Steve.

     

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