B&O owned by Apple......I don't see how that would be progress for the B&O brand?? Apple is for the mass market, B&O isn't!!

B&O has always been very expensive and for the rich....for eg a Beomaster 6000 in 1976 was around £450.00. Which is ridiculously expensive for the time it was made in. B&O clearly want to be an exclusive, expensive brand that will never cater for the mass market or those just above that level. Bottom line is if you can't afford it (whether you think its value for money or not) buy a Sony.

Thats how I see it anyway......

BenSA:

B&O owned by Apple......I don't see how that would be progress for the B&O brand?? Apple is for the mass market, B&O isn't!!

B&O has always been very expensive and for the rich....[redacted] Bottom line is if you can't afford it (whether you think its value for money or not) buy a Sony.

Thats how I see it anyway......

Unfortunately, B&O as a brand has always had a premium attached, but I'd argue that it wasn't always for the rich.

Upwardly mobile individuals could afford B&O one piece or two at a time, whereas the price increases have truly marginalized and continue to push out a repeat customer base.

If B&O are only going to cater to full home installs, they're sadly going to run out of customers who care to entertain the brand.

As for if you can't afford it, buy a sony, that really speaks ill of the many of us who have saved up and sacrificed to have their pieces in our homes. I am sure you didn't mean to come off sounding elitist. Afford is a relative term.

As has been stated before, the second hand market will be bopping if this trend continues, and then the second hand prices will start to creep up.

I've no issue with stuff not being made in Denmark. If the design, materials, craftsmanship and quality are what is required/expected then it can come from CZ for me - it simply isn't an issue (to me).

What is required is world class design, materials, features, quality and reliability. If they can do this while keeping their costs under control then great.

 

btw - the best B&O dealers I've ever visited (bought from) sold other manufacturers too as well as musical instruments, records/cds, sheet music etc. The people there cared, were interested and knowledgeable. I'm sure Peter will vouch for this too.

Having only their own outlets and producing Sly in Denmark may be part of the problem rather than a solution I'm afraid!

@Sal..I wasn't trying to be elitist.....I just honestly don't think its a new trend when it comes to B&O. Generally everything keeps creeping up in price which leaves people with less disposable income to spend on items such as B&O. B&O prices have always been extremely high. People keep referring to Sony as better value for money but who will still want that same Sony 25 years later? What will its value be? I can most certainately say nothing. Thats the difference! A 25 year old B&O is still beautiful to look at and has value. Also B&O buyers tend to keep their B&O products for much longer which also reduces B&O's market.

A lot of people on the forum are very pro Apple products which I have no problem with at all but once again 25 year Apple product?? It will be obsolete!

after reaching a certain age and income I found music systems to be acceptable pricing wise. Where they always were out of touch in my opinion is TVs. When I came to the US we only had the Avant that was 10000$. That was 1998. That was roughly the annual amount of rent I paid living just outside NYC. I think since they focus so much on TVs these days I think they are perceived much more as expensive.

What strikes me is that people here do not consider the design element. A Sony TV has some sort of design, a BV10 looks stunning. To me it is a centerpiece just like an exquisite piece of furniture. I recently checked out european designer furniture, prices are as high and "out of whack" as B&O is. 3000$ Random Bookshelf from MDF that nearly looks like a 99$ Ikea Billy.

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll43/atelier29/random.jpg

I still believe who is willing to drop 8000$ on a BV10 will also not stop at 8800$. It's not that I don't wish they would be cheaper and would focus on selling more volume but doubt that is happening.

I am glad about the equipment I have and know I will be using most pieces over the next 5 to 10 years.

BenSA:

@Sal..I wasn't trying to be elitist.....I just honestly don't think its a new trend when it comes to B&O. Generally everything keeps creeping up in price which leaves people with less disposable income to spend on items such as B&O. B&O prices have always been extremely high. People keep referring to Sony as better value for money but who will still want that same Sony 25 years later? What will its value be? I can most certainately say nothing. Thats the difference! A 25 year old B&O is still beautiful to look at and has value. Also B&O buyers tend to keep their B&O products for much longer which also reduces B&O's market.

A lot of people on the forum are very pro Apple products which I have no problem with at all but once again 25 year Apple product?? It will be obsolete!

What of BV7-32 & BV7-40 MKI's etc. I think the days of a TV being current etc. in 15 years have gone.

BenSA:

B&O owned by Apple......I don't see how that would be progress for the B&O brand?? Apple is for the mass market, B&O isn't!!

VW own Bentley, as well as Bugatti and Lamborghini,  Toyota own Lexus, Fiat own Ferrari, BMW own Rolls Royce...   The huge resources of these companies can allow them to create an 'elite division' for the best of their products and indeed talent pool.  Not a bad thing, surely?

In my opinion, i think it'd be a good thing if they were bought out.  A new way of thinking and a damn good kick up the backside might be what the company needs.  

Only my 2 cents and all that... i'm probably wrong.

Lee

 

 

Puncher:

BenSA:

@Sal..I wasn't trying to be elitist.....I just honestly don't think its a new trend when it comes to B&O. Generally everything keeps creeping up in price which leaves people with less disposable income to spend on items such as B&O. B&O prices have always been extremely high. People keep referring to Sony as better value for money but who will still want that same Sony 25 years later? What will its value be? I can most certainately say nothing. Thats the difference! A 25 year old B&O is still beautiful to look at and has value. Also B&O buyers tend to keep their B&O products for much longer which also reduces B&O's market.

A lot of people on the forum are very pro Apple products which I have no problem with at all but once again 25 year Apple product?? It will be obsolete!

 

What of BV7-32 & BV7-40 MKI's etc. I think the days of a TV being current etc. in 15 years have gone.

I'm sure they will still work and be beautiful!! Can't blame B&O if TV technology changes every 2 years. A CRT Tv is still functional today even with the massive changes in technology.

I am no expert....just giving my opinion that is all.

9 LEE:

In my opinion, i think it'd be a good thing if they were bought out.  A new way of thinking and a damn good kick up the backside might be what the company needs.  

But Apple don't buy companies that aim at the top end of the market. Plus they don't buy loss-leading companies.

I can't see B&O appealing to anyone, apart from a company that might want to buy the ALT and IcePower technologies? No-one is going to be bothered about the TVs and, as David Lewis and others are freelance designers, you could just employ them directly

BenSA:

Puncher:

BenSA:

@Sal..I wasn't trying to be elitist.....I just honestly don't think its a new trend when it comes to B&O. Generally everything keeps creeping up in price which leaves people with less disposable income to spend on items such as B&O. B&O prices have always been extremely high. People keep referring to Sony as better value for money but who will still want that same Sony 25 years later? What will its value be? I can most certainately say nothing. Thats the difference! A 25 year old B&O is still beautiful to look at and has value. Also B&O buyers tend to keep their B&O products for much longer which also reduces B&O's market.

A lot of people on the forum are very pro Apple products which I have no problem with at all but once again 25 year Apple product?? It will be obsolete!

 

What of BV7-32 & BV7-40 MKI's etc. I think the days of a TV being current etc. in 15 years have gone.

 

I'm sure they will still work and be beautiful!! Can't blame B&O if TV technology changes every 2 years. A CRT Tv is still functional today even with the massive changes in technology.

I am no expert....just giving my opinion that is all.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just think that with the pace of current TV development things have changed somewhat. The MKI panels were much poorer than CRT and poorer now than the current LCD's etc. The casing may still be attractive but I'm not sure the picture quality will still be "satisfactory" in another 5 years time.

However my 25 year old CD50 still plays CD's beautifully and speakers are somewhat timeless in that if they sounded good then (of course not all did) and they are in a decent state of repair they will still sound good now. I don't think TV's (and certainly the early flat panel models) are now subject to the same rules.

 

Puncher:

BenSA:

Puncher:

BenSA:

@Sal..I wasn't trying to be elitist.....I just honestly don't think its a new trend when it comes to B&O. Generally everything keeps creeping up in price which leaves people with less disposable income to spend on items such as B&O. B&O prices have always been extremely high. People keep referring to Sony as better value for money but who will still want that same Sony 25 years later? What will its value be? I can most certainately say nothing. Thats the difference! A 25 year old B&O is still beautiful to look at and has value. Also B&O buyers tend to keep their B&O products for much longer which also reduces B&O's market.

A lot of people on the forum are very pro Apple products which I have no problem with at all but once again 25 year Apple product?? It will be obsolete!

 

What of BV7-32 & BV7-40 MKI's etc. I think the days of a TV being current etc. in 15 years have gone.

 

I'm sure they will still work and be beautiful!! Can't blame B&O if TV technology changes every 2 years. A CRT Tv is still functional today even with the massive changes in technology.

I am no expert....just giving my opinion that is all.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just think that with the pace of current TV development things have changed somewhat. The MKI panels were much poorer than CRT and poorer now than the current LCD's etc. The casing may still be attractive but I'm not sure the picture quality will still be "satisfactory" in another 5 years time.

 

However my 25 year old CD50 still plays CD's beautifully and speakers are somewhat timeless in that if they sounded good then (of course not all did) and they are in a decent state of repair they will still sound good now. I don't think TV's (and certainly the early flat panel models) are now subject to the same rules.

 

Surely its not a problem confined to B&O....its a general problem. A bit unfair to single out B&O Tv's...at any rate they will still look beautiful design wise I'm sure

Puncher:

btw - the best B&O dealers I've ever visited (bought from) sold other manufacturers too as well as musical instruments, records/cds, sheet music etc. The people there cared, were interested and knowledgeable. I'm sure Peter will vouch for this too.

Having only their own outlets and producing Sly in Denmark may be part of the problem rather than a solution I'm afraid!

Hi

I must agree strongly here to what Puncher is writing. We travelled a lot to fancy B&O stores just to end up in a usual (but unusual) AV store that sells almost everything. It was often that the B&O stores knew very little about the rest of the AV world. They tended to see the world too much in B&O colors. I remember entering one B&O store and the guy presented proudly B&O´s hard disc recorder (was it HDR1?). I did not really understood his enthusiasm and explained to him that we have had this functionality for about two years in our Terrestrial receiver. His face was like he did not believe me. That would not happen in the store where we bought our equipment. If the store sells other brands as well, I think they can give B&O a more accurate feedback from customer since they know a lot more about the competition from other brands. Apparently they seem to have problem with their quality, which could be real bad for such a company.

Good evening

Clakke

jk1002:

What strikes me is that people here do not consider the design element. A Sony TV has some sort of design, a BV10 looks stunning. To me it is a centerpiece just like an exquisite piece of furniture. I recently checked out european designer furniture, prices are as high and "out of whack" as B&O is. 3000$ Random Bookshelf from MDF that nearly looks like a 99$ Ikea Billy.

Hi

I do not agree here. The TVs are flat today. There is not much room for design in this "after CRT time". A B&O TV is just a little bit more good looking in my world, not enough to pay their prices. Surely the sound is much better in a B&O TV, but that is not needed for us when just watching TV. When we watch a movie, we use a projector and a surround equipment. Maybe more than me thinks likewise of the design and find no reason at all to pay these prices.

Further, the furniture mentioned can be used for decades or centuries sometimes and can also be inherited. If I buy a BV7, it is modern about a year I believe.

Evening

Clakke

Just going to buy a BV-7... sad you report lot of issues.

9 LEE:

BenSA:

B&O owned by Apple......I don't see how that would be progress for the B&O brand?? Apple is for the mass market, B&O isn't!!

VW own Bentley, as well as Bugatti and Lamborghini,  Toyota own Lexus, Fiat own Ferrari, BMW own Rolls Royce...   The huge resources of these companies can allow them to create an 'elite division' for the best of their products and indeed talent pool.  Not a bad thing, surely?

In my opinion, i think it'd be a good thing if they were bought out.  A new way of thinking and a damn good kick up the backside might be what the company needs.  

Only my 2 cents and all that... i'm probably wrong.

Lee

 

> People keep referring to Sony as better value for money but who will still want that same Sony 25 years later?

 

This point used to be correct. In current technology changes B&O should keep working technology (loosing some upgrade steps and not going for 4 different revision on the same product in 4 years) to follow this mantra, and they are not doing that.

Try to trade-in a B&O product, and test the real "value" you can get back. LifeStyle AV has BV-7 MK III at half the price as new, not to speak for BV3-32 or older CRT TV sets.

Skip LED LCD and keep producing great TVs... and avoid clouding issues. This is the old approach B&O it's no more willing to follow, as consumers are more focused in tech specs than before.

 

Just my 2 cents,

SKApretto71:

> People keep referring to Sony as better value for money but who will still want that same Sony 25 years later?

 

This point used to be correct. In current technology changes B&O should keep working technology (loosing some upgrade steps and not going for 4 different revision on the same product in 4 years) to follow this mantra, and they are not doing that.

Try to trade-in a B&O product, and test the real "value" you can get back. LifeStyle AV has BV-7 MK III at half the price as new, not to speak for BV3-32 or older CRT TV sets.

Skip LED LCD and keep producing great TVs... and avoid clouding issues. This is the old approach B&O it's no more willing to follow, as consumers are more focused in tech specs than before.

 

Just my 2 cents,

That seems to be the point - who will want even a BV7-32 MKI   25 years after it was produced (who even knows what TV's will be in 15 years time). How much are they selling for now?

In my humble opinion,

DVD1/2

HDR1/2

Beomedia,Beosound 3,Beomaster5,Beovision 6 

had/have a price not justified,out of reason,out of market.

People hardly spend >10.000 € for a Tv in this period ,because every year there is a "new revolutionary" technology in this market.Consumer are diffident...

and honestly, 4000€ for a  Beocenter 2 without blu ray(i know,it doesn't fit....but god....),or a Beosound9000 with only cd capabilities....

upgrade these units!!!they are timeless design masterpiece,but people don't want only design!!!

i can't understand,why people should spend 14.000€ for BS3+BV4 and you (B&O) don't give an official B&O blu ray player?are we supposed to watch film buying a ps3 or a samsung/sony player with different graphics interface,and maybe not fully supported?..

Only loudspeakers "worth" the price...(and probably not Beolab 4)

9 LEE:

 

VW own Bentley, as well as Bugatti and Lamborghini,  Toyota own Lexus, Fiat own Ferrari, BMW own Rolls Royce...   The huge resources of these companies can allow them to create an 'elite division' for the best of their products and indeed talent pool.  Not a bad thing, surely?

In my opinion, i think it'd be a good thing if they were bought out.  A new way of thinking and a damn good kick up the backside might be what the company needs.  

Only my 2 cents and all that... i'm probably wrong.

I couldn't agree more.

Massive changes are needed here, because the world around them has massively changed. They're loosing the plot and that is becoming more and more apparent.

They need help, they need to start swallowing their pride and greediness. They need to change, soon.

 

I've been selling B&O for a long long time now. I've seen the portfolio at weak points and strong points. I've seen prices that make sense and ones that don't. I've got to say that for the most part I see the strongest portfolio in the past few decades with more products coming very soon. 

It's the first time there has been a viable "good, better, best" lineup as well, which has been a very valid complaint in years past. The BeoVision 8-40 for less than $6,000 that includes a surround sound processor, terrific picture, and PUC is not too bad when you try and cobble together the same type of solution with 3rd party goods. The BeoVision 10 is also selling at a shocking pace and is a great middle product. 

Do you really think that B&O should offer a lower price integrated TV than the BeoVision 8? Or is it that you'd like there to be a wider variety of sizes in the various price brackets?

 

I think there is a perceived difference in design as well as with picture quality. The BV10 seems to be widely popular yet it is unobtainable pricing wise, or lets say value wise when compared to the competition. 

I think many see the BV8 as an ugly step brother so coming up with cheaper models is probably not the answer.

I somewhat agree that the product portfolio here in the US is strongest looking back over the last 10 years. Yet outside factors changed. Music and video turned digital. And B&O doesn't have a "killer" product in these segments.

Also they haven't adjusted that TVs are now replaced every 3 or 4 years rather then 10 back in the 90ies. That has a huge impact what people are willing to spend.

TripEnglish:

I've been selling B&O for a long long time now. I've seen the portfolio at weak points and strong points. I've seen prices that make sense and ones that don't. I've got to say that for the most part I see the strongest portfolio in the past few decades with more products coming very soon. 

What is your definition of the past few decades?

burantek:

Cobble? How about a 50" Panny + Denon surround processor + who cares about the PUC + speakers + AppleTV + BD player + Wii + PS3 (OH! wouldn't need the BD player!) + cabinet(s) + wiring + Logitech Harmony + a popcorn maker + whatever the h3ll else you want for what: $2,500 out the door??? I'll take the balance of $3,500 and buy Apple stock!

Well that's just it. To me that setup sounds horrible, and not just as a seller. We do about 20% of our AV business in non-B&O so I'm fairly familiar with the various setups one can put together. If they suit you, that's fine. But the reason that companies like Bang & Olufsen exist is because a certain segment of the population are unsatisfied with the type of setup you described.

TripEnglish:

Well that's just it. To me that setup sounds horrible, and not just as a seller. We do about 20% of our AV business in non-B&O so I'm fairly familiar with the various setups one can put together. If they suit you, that's fine. But the reason that companies like Bang & Olufsen exist is because a certain segment of the population are unsatisfied with the type of setup you described.

Unsatisfied with what? BV7 / BV10 / BS5 / BC5

Wow. If you really think that the list of products you mentioned has anything to offer a Bang & Olufsen client you may as well head over to the Ferrari forums and start heralding the virtues of roller skates and a rope tied to the hitch of a delivery van!