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Latest post 05-21-2010 9:56 AM by GuyHui . 100 replies.
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  • 05-19-2010 3:07 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    StUrrock:

    Recently all the dealers in the UK have been sampled the MLGW. Its seems a great number still have it in the box and don't have a clue what to do with it

    Not surprised..

    Regards Keith....

  • 05-19-2010 6:40 AM In reply to

    • TWG
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Germany
    • Posts 950
    • Gold Member

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    3 Big Mistakes by B&O:

    - increasing prices in a global Recession
    - moving their "high end production" to "low end" Czech
    - Releasing lower quality products with hard-, software and quality issues.




    They don't seem to understand that there is BIG competition in Hifi- and Design- markets and that the light at the end of the tunnel could easily be a big train! Smile

    Many High End brand manufacture their products in their home countries, due to the quality and reputation. And that's what many people want! "Made in China, Made in Czech" is easy and short way thinking!

    The Beolab 3500 was the last thing I bought from them new this year. "Made in Czech" on a 1700,- Euro speaker? After I opened the package it smelled like china plastic! No way!

    Dear Bang & Olufsen, you can fool other people!!!

     

  • 05-19-2010 7:32 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    TWG:

    3 Big Mistakes by B&O:

    - increasing prices in a global Recession => what an unclever business strategy, may be they are aiming the Upper social class only...
    - moving their "high end production" to "low end" Czech
    - Releasing lower quality products with hard-, software and quality issues. => I hope the new BV10 46 will do the trick, as I really like this product....


    They don't seem to understand that there is BIG competition in Hifi- and Design- markets and that the light at the end of the tunnel could easily be a big train! Smile => Let's say... Loewe and ...Sony with their new beautiful flatcreens TV.

    ........

     

    --= "Everything gets done with Patience" =-- --= "Less is More" - Mies Van der Rohe"

    --= BV10 46", BL8K, BL4K, BL2, BS Ouverture, BC6000 (Mk3), BT1100, Beo4 , A8 and ...the Atomic Floyd "Airjax+Mic" earphones =--

  • 05-19-2010 8:22 AM In reply to

    • muck22
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-15-2007
    • germany
    • Posts 83
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    that's my opinion too! I love the B&O products, but not at any price... Angry

     

  • 05-19-2010 10:26 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    TWG:

    3 Big Mistakes by B&O:

    - increasing prices in a global Recession
    - moving their "high end production" to "low end" Czech
    - Releasing lower quality products with hard-, software and quality issues.




    They don't seem to understand that there is BIG competition in Hifi- and Design- markets and that the light at the end of the tunnel could easily be a big train! Smile

    Many High End brand manufacture their products in their home countries, due to the quality and reputation. And that's what many people want! "Made in China, Made in Czech" is easy and short way thinking!

    The Beolab 3500 was the last thing I bought from them new this year. "Made in Czech" on a 1700,- Euro speaker? After I opened the package it smelled like china plastic! No way!

    Dear Bang & Olufsen, you can fool other people!!!

     

     

    I am not sure I agree  with this!

    B&O are in a very difficult place for pricing at the moment. Put bluntly making things largely by hand in relatively low volumes in Denmark, and selling them through a bespoke dealer network  is expensive. If they are going  to cover their costs then they need to charge sky-high prices.

    I really can't see how B&O could reduce prices, continue to make everything in Denmark, sell only through exclusive dealers  and still make money. Something has to give!

    It is possible to manufacture in lower-cost countries and still maintain quality. Apple have been doing this for many years now and I think B&O will need to follow suit if they are going to survive but it is essential that any products made in China or Slovakia are made to the same or better standards,but  it is far from clear that this is the case at the moment.

    Transferring to a lower cost location could free up resources for more efforts to be devoted to testing and Quality Control prior to a new models first release as most  of B&Os recent product launches has experienced some sort of Quality Issue.

    As long as B&O can maintain and increase the focus on design, quality control and reliability they could make a successful transition from Designer and Manufactuer to designer which may be the only way to survive.

     

    Simon 

     

     

  • 05-19-2010 10:34 AM In reply to

    • Sal
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-30-2007
    • Indianapolis, USA
    • Posts 261
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    Simon mentioned the B&O Dealer network. I am curious how much money B&O could save if they closed their bespoke dealer networks, and began again to be sold at hi-end electronic retailers, yes that would mean trusting B&O to individuals who also peddle other brands, trusting installation to those individuals as well, etc. But isn't that the price to pay for survival? I am sure the cost of maintaining establishments (and employees) across the world is cost prohibitive with overhead only going up. Besides, every medium sized city has a hi-end AV store. They may not exhude as much panache as a B&O boutique, but that's where the customers are. Save that money, bring all manufacturing back in house, stabilize pricing, and create the allure of B&O next to other hi-end brands. Unless B&O is afraid of being compared to the likes of McIntosh, Classe, or the uber-ugly Chord, I think this maybe the perfect solution for survival.
    Love B&O, but no longer addicted.
  • 05-19-2010 10:50 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    Nice to read some good suggestions...

    Perhaps all they have to do is be more honest, and promote sales, as opposed to sucking every last cent they can...

    Great, they have a few new products, but B&O doesnt really have to create a new phone (BCom5)?! Or arguably new sub woofer even... If they created more 'promotions' or other ways to encourage people to buy their products then they could sell more and get people excited again... 

  • 05-19-2010 10:56 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    Plus I'm not sure that I'd like B&O to be sold with other brands too... because its going to be packed, loud and people are going to look at us like we're all snobby etc etc...

    Just imagine how many people will be telling us on our way in and out: "Hey, don't buy B&O, they are expensive etc etc, go for the ABC model XYZ with triple super woofer XXL"... etc etc...

    Now, as the shops are, they are chilled out, you get offered coffee and chocolates, surrounded by like-minded addicts and have something common...

    It took me over 3 months to decide which speakers to go for! BL3+BL2, BL9 or BL5!!!! And every contribution from members on this forum and in the shops helped!

  • 05-19-2010 11:10 AM In reply to

    • Sal
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-30-2007
    • Indianapolis, USA
    • Posts 261
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    timhanna:

    Plus I'm not sure that I'd like B&O to be sold with other brands too... because its going to be packed, loud and people are going to look at us like we're all snobby etc etc...

    Just imagine how many people will be telling us on our way in and out: "Hey, don't buy B&O, they are expensive etc etc, go for the ABC model XYZ with triple super woofer XXL"... etc etc...

    Now, as the shops are, they are chilled out, you get offered coffee and chocolates, surrounded by like-minded addicts and have something common...

    It took me over 3 months to decide which speakers to go for! BL3+BL2, BL9 or BL5!!!! And every contribution from members on this forum and in the shops helped!

    I'd like to address your points: It is well and good to go into a store and be locked into a brand, but when it depends on long term survival, I think cutting out a brand-lock in environment, like the dealerships does seem to have a significant degree of appeal. There would be challenges, not the least of which would be the stigma of B&O, though I think that maybe overinflated by members of audio-forums. The longstanding thought about the typical B&O purchaser is that they are too rich, and don't care about sound, heck, if that is true, the same kind of customer is coming into a hi-end audio store. It would be in the proprieter's best interest to educate rather than recommend. That's what I have found, the good dealers, they let the customer explore, and decide for themselves.

    So about the environment in the B&O dealerships *sigh* I fear I'm one of those who isn't impressed by chocolates / coffee, nor do I care about such extravagances. The environment is nice, but I doubt that it does anything significant to the decision to buy. It is the customer service presale and post sale which counts, and unfortunately, the reputation for B&O's after-sales customer service is spotty at best.

    Maybe selling B&O next to other brands will be a wake up call for a company who needs to really think about going back to the old paradigm: quality and customer service. They were doing fine in the days of J. Jensen, and early lewis being sold at Harvey's for example (on Park Ave.)...

    Ah the good old days.
    Love B&O, but no longer addicted.
  • 05-19-2010 11:15 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    Sal:
    Simon mentioned the B&O Dealer network. I am curious how much money B&O could save if they closed their bespoke dealer networks, and began again to be sold at hi-end electronic retailers, yes that would mean trusting B&O to individuals who also peddle other brands, trusting installation to those individuals as well, etc. But isn't that the price to pay for survival? I am sure the cost of maintaining establishments (and employees) across the world is cost prohibitive with overhead only going up. Besides, every medium sized city has a hi-end AV store. They may not exhude as much panache as a B&O boutique, but that's where the customers are. Save that money, bring all manufacturing back in house, stabilize pricing, and create the allure of B&O next to other hi-end brands. Unless B&O is afraid of being compared to the likes of McIntosh, Classe, or the uber-ugly Chord, I think this maybe the perfect solution for survival.

    Therre are some moves toward this with the A8's and the Lab 4s being available via the Apple Store, but the higher-end products will probably still need their own dealer network.

    If B&O could produce a high-end iPod dock and integrated speaker to rival the Zeppelin to sell for maybe £500-700, a Lab4 replacement with a Mac-centric design  for the same amount and some high-quality portable on-ear  Headphones for £250-£300 all made in China to exacting quality standards an incorporating real design flair  they could be big sellers in their own right and interest people in the higher-end products and if the quality was good enough it need not undermine the brands reputation.

    Simon

     

     

  • 05-19-2010 11:18 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    Good points throughout there Sal... B&O definitely have to wake up a bit... customer service is very patchy... 

    Is it still the case that B&O are still in the red?

  • 05-19-2010 11:24 AM In reply to

    • Sal
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-30-2007
    • Indianapolis, USA
    • Posts 261
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    I apologize if this has been mentioned earlier in the thread, but the first thought that came to mind with the prospect of yet another price increase is the question which was asked / has been asked often: Is B&O worth the price? I think the question becomes more and more valid as price increase after price increase corner out the true and genuine fans of the company who once could purchase one or two B&O products per year.
    Love B&O, but no longer addicted.
  • 05-19-2010 11:31 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    Store-wise I'd like to see a return to B&O having discrete sections in the A/V departments of quality department stores here in the UK. I remember years ago there being a lovely section in the House of Fraser in Meadowhall, and this was my first introduction to the brand well before I bought anything. I seem to remember fiddling with the sliding doors on a Beocenter 9500 or 9300 and not being treated like a blagger student or thief!

    Try doing the same in some of the local dealerships nowadays. Part of the problem is that there's no passing trade. I bet that Meadowhall concession made decent money in its day.

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 05-19-2010 11:36 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    Galeries Lafayette (Paris' equivalent of Harrods) had a B&O section, next to Sony etc etc... they closed down ("moved") to an existing store on the Champs-Élysées...

  • 05-19-2010 11:40 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    I've been in the Galeries Lafayette before and have a vaugue memory of this, but it was about twelve-ish years ago...

    Anyway, bought a nice Lacoste woolly hat from there that day - that I do remember!

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 05-19-2010 11:43 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    Hehe... good times :) Now it's overrun with Chinese... they seem to be the only people buying stuff from there...

  • 05-19-2010 12:42 PM In reply to

    • Hungedu
    • Top 500 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 08-08-2009
    • Ambergris Caye, Belize
    • Posts 128
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    I've had to work at two different B&O shops as a sales clerk in order to afford any of the products new. For a brief period of time when my own business was doing well, I paid full price for an Avant, a couple of DVD-1 players, and a BeoLab 2. I've been considering a BeoVision 7 for a few years now to replace my Avant, but I just cant justify spending that kind of money on a television with yesteryear backlight technology and questionable performance. My girlfriend owns B&O herself, and she still thinks I'm crazy for even considering paying the price for a new B&O television.

    Please Apple, come to our rescue and buy B&O!

     

    BeoVision 7-55 3D, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound 8, BeoLab 7-6, BeoLab Penta III, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 2, LC-1, BeoTime (analog clock), Form 1 headphones, Beo 4 remote.

     

  • 05-19-2010 1:14 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    Hungedu:
    Please Apple, come to our rescue and buy B&O!

    Hold that thought... for a cold beer I shall predict that 2-3 years from now... you will see Apple's very own TV sets!

    • B&o bottle opener
  • 05-19-2010 1:21 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    burantek:

    Hungedu:
    Please Apple, come to our rescue and buy B&O!

    Hold that thought... for a cold beer I shall predict that 2-3 years from now... you will see Apple's very own TV sets!

    ... a TV that will only play TV shows downloaded from iTunes! lol

  • 05-19-2010 1:24 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    Hungedu:

    Please Apple, come to our rescue and buy B&O!

    Not this again... what on earth would Apple do with B&O?

    I admit of not following too closely, but has Apple ever had any interaction with anybody else other than trying to kill or sue it? B&O seems perfectly capable of pulling their own plug...

    -mika

  • 05-19-2010 1:51 PM In reply to

    • Sal
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-30-2007
    • Indianapolis, USA
    • Posts 261
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    timhanna:

    burantek:

    Hungedu:
    Please Apple, come to our rescue and buy B&O!

    Hold that thought... for a cold beer I shall predict that 2-3 years from now... you will see Apple's very own TV sets!

    ... a TV that will only play TV shows downloaded from iTunes! lol

    We already have that: AppleTV

    I think that Jeff is right about Apple making televisions, in fact, a TV with an inbuilt set top box which can integrate with the home network, has apps which can be controlled by iPhone / iTouch / ipad / And laptops... I think that's the kind of ecosystem which Apple is trying to build... if not a television, then an STB with those capabilities... The Apple TV is the testbed, the Mac Mini can be the form factor.
    Love B&O, but no longer addicted.
  • 05-19-2010 1:58 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    Sal,

    You got it! It is coming...

    FWIW, Apple actually did a STB before as some may remember.

    I used to collect Apple products and this was sort of a holy grail -sold it years ago for ridiculous $! Big Smile

    • B&o bottle opener
  • 05-19-2010 1:58 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    i am getting frustrated as well with these annual price increases...

    7 years ago i bought a BS9000, Beo4 remote and Lab1s. Used them for 10 years and they were fantastic.

    Upgraded to Bs5, BL5 speakers and a Beo5 remote over last few years.

     

    The BL5 are truly amazing but the Bs5 was a nightmare to setup, has no easy mac lossless transfer, developed dust under glass screen. The unit was sent for cleaning and came back with even more dust in it...! I just can't be bothered to go to all that trouble again to send it off. When they agreed to a simple plug and play they tried to charge me for cables which were enormously overpriced.

    The Beo5 remote has stopped charging and has gone off for repairs...

    Build quality, poor software compatibility and reliability are definite issues now.

     

    I can't justify B&O anymore and like others have decided to give up on the brand in terms of future purchases...

    I really hope they get their act together but for now, thanks but no thanks.

    Sad

  • 05-19-2010 2:32 PM In reply to

    • Sal
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-30-2007
    • Indianapolis, USA
    • Posts 261
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    burantek:

    Sal,

    You got it! It is coming...

    FWIW, Apple actually did a STB before as some may remember.

    I used to collect Apple products and this was sort of a holy grail -sold it years ago for ridiculous $! Big Smile

    Wow! I had never heard of / seen that. Thanks!

    Back to B&O, the facts are that we all love the brand and their products. B&O have lost their way with decisions meant to save money, which end up costing them customers and reputation which inevitably cost them far more in terms of long-term loyalty.

    It comes back to what B&O can do to attract NEW customers. They had a chance with the Beo5, the "gateway drug" for B&O. A fully customizable, universal remote for B&O and non B&O products. PC / MAC compatible software, they'd have made a killing! But instead they chose to lock it in (there's nothing wrong with lock in; Apple does this), but to lock it insofar as to require a Dealer to program it?

    I'm all for customer service, but forcing it is a tad totalitarian.

    If B&O is NOT going to change their philosophy, then price increases are the only recourse. Making less than world class products with less than world class customer service does not a successful boutique brand make.
    Love B&O, but no longer addicted.
  • 05-19-2010 2:46 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O Price rise again?!

    Not this again... what on earth would Apple do with B&O?

    It's not worth answering. If people can't 'see' it, it's not worth a reply.

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