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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 02-17-2010 8:37 PM by mjmedlo. 11 replies.
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  • 02-16-2010 11:55 AM

    • BeoNut1
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    iPad and home automation

    Looks like the Beo 6 may have some competition.  This article is merely someone with ties to the home automation industry vocalizing what I think many of us see coming:

    http://www.electronichouse.com/article/savant_ipad_will_redefine_home_automation/

     

    Mark D
  • 02-16-2010 12:22 PM In reply to

    Re: iPad and home automation

    I think the thrust of the article is not the iPad specifically, but the general accessibility. I see Lutron making huge in-roads in very basic and non-intrusive automation (like Occ. sensors & local remotes for switches) and Honeywell has a great little system that allows the networking of multiple T-stats with an RF remote for them all. These things were relegated to capital A automation only a few years back. 

    The issue, however, is not the cost of the remote, but the cost of the things it controls! The real honest-to-goodness solutions are still fairly expensive and by no means user friendly (some aren't even Pro-friendly!) and if the resi-systems still cost 5 figures in a standard home, it doesn't really matter if you're using a $499 iPad or a $3k Crestron panel. It just doesn't move the needle enough.

    What will really revolutionize the automation industry is companies like Lutron (whose RadioRA2 is spectacular) slowly depressing the barrier to entry and delivering compelling features in the low 4 figures. Otherwise you can have all the touch pad you want and nothing to do with it but change channels.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 02-16-2010 12:30 PM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
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    Re: iPad and home automation

    Trip,

    What do you think of relatively inexpensive solutions like the ThinkFlood hardware and software that relies on the iPhone / iPod / iPad to do the heavy computing and organization of codes, macros, etc.?  From my humble perspective, that looks like this offers the perfect solution as it allows the user to easily program their devices using up-to-date codes.  I realize, though, that thus far this doesn't do some of the RF signal stuff that may be on audiophile systems, but wouldn't that be easy to do, too?  Just asking.

     

    Mark D
  • 02-16-2010 1:44 PM In reply to

    Re: iPad and home automation

    I think it's fine. But I don't think it matters as much as what's being controlled. I think that a few things I've seen are "revolutionary" (a word that' probably a bit too strong for the application, but distinct from "evolutionary").

    1. AppleTV's Navigation: While I'm universally underwhelmed by nearly every other aspect of the product, the relegation of navigation to an on-screen GUI points the way for systems of the future. The tablet is great for rooms without TVs, but let's be realistic about just how few of those rooms will exist moving into the future. A remote with lots of buttons, whether a morphing tablet screen or a universal remote of buttons just doesn't make sense. 

    2. "Lite" Automation: There has to be some more affordable and intellectually digestible form of automation than Lutron Homeworks or Crestron/AMX. I firmly believe based on my experience that price will not be the primary driver of this the way it is with new television or computer technology. It will be the manufacturers ability to wrap it up with a pretty bow on top. The majority of my push-back on residential systems projects is that it's A) too complex to learn and use B) not as reliable as a dumb light-switch, thermostat, doorbell, etc. C) requires near total demolition of the home to install. 

    With lightweight solutions like Lutron's RadioRA or even one-off switch replacements with IR eyes or Occ. Sensors, and other "automation-in-a-box" solutions, people's fears of a technical apocalypse are reduced. Once the general public is oriented to the ease of use, added benefits, and unintrusive installation then we can really make some progress in whole-house control. Until then I think it's hard to produce anything beyond an AV remote because so little else is ever being controlled. The market's flooded with AV remote solutions.

     

    3. Apple's Dock: I couldn't even guess at how the computer and the TV will finally merge, but we're right on the edge of it. I'm one of many people that are using televisions primarily as computer monitors and drawing content from stored media and online sources. While few of my clients might be ready for this transition, they weren't ready for iPods 5 years ago and now they all have one. Today we're worried about how many HDMI sockets there are, but this is only because legalities are keeping our content segregated into their own physical boxes. Once content providers pull their heads out of their finalize a viable business model for content distribution the "AV component" will immediately die. 

    Whether Apple or other computer makers actually make the TV or whether modern TVs get OSs like computers, today's AV components are tomorrow's apps. If I want to dim the lights on the patio I bring up the dock or the dashboard and access the lighting. Simple. The technology's there, but it's primarily the legality of developing a true singularity of content that's keeping major investment from pursuing this solution.

     

     

    So, in short I don't really put much stock in the controller so much as the controlled. I'll be pre-ordering multiple iPads for myself and my business and have no doubt they will lead to several mini-revolutions, but they're not going to do much for residential systems unless residential systems continue to press financially and conceptually into the mainstream.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 02-16-2010 2:15 PM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
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    Re: iPad and home automation

    Trip,

    Thank you for such a detailed answer and for your insights.  That's just the sort of info I was seeking, and, quite frankly, it's one of the many reasons I so enjoy perusing this site.

    Considering what you do for a living, I've got another, somewhat unfair question for you:  As a lover of B&O devices - particularly their speakers, I'd love some insights (or reassurances) that you think B&O will play well in these future ecosystems.  I ask this as I don't mind investing in expensive AV stuff, as long as it has some future-proofness.  I realize that this is a somewhat unrealistic expectation (particularly when it comes to TVs), but I find B&O's seeming unwillingness to embrace things like iTunes very discerning.  I can justify spending money on B&O speakers, but spending $18K on a B&O TV seems steep for a technology that will be defunct quickly.  I've been selling myself on the idea of the BS3 being the reason to make such a substantial TV purchase primarily owing to its ability to integrate other devices via the PUQ and via IR blasters.  However, the integration that the iPhone / iPod / iPad may offer via these third party hardware / software solutions, makes the Beo5 look arduous at best.  Then again, the Beo4 feels alot better in the hand than an iPhone.

    Thanks again for your insights.

    Mark D
  • 02-16-2010 3:01 PM In reply to

    Re: iPad and home automation

    There is no right answer for this and what I have are what I consider reasoned hypotheses. 

    1. Speakers are safe. I don't think anyone would contest that. 

    2. Televisions (as we know them today) are mostly safe and even if they aren't in the very long run nobody buying today (at any price-point) really needs to be concerned about what the TV of tomorrow will be. It's sort of like electric cars. They're probably the future, but we have less than 3 models, mostly unavailable, mostly toward 6 figures, and no infrastructure for rapid charging (and no etiquette for just walking into Wendy's with an extension cord and plugging in while you have a frosty). So considering OLEDs are still a few years away from mass market and another few years away from pricing alignment AND considering that content providers seem more concerned with forcing us all into 3D goggles than sorting out what a cluster-cuss they've allowed their industry to become I don't think we really need to worry about an impending revolution for this buying cycle. So, as long as television is mostly what it is today, any current TV is a fine investment, with some (like ours) being even better ones.

    3. Audio Systems are in severe danger and may skip life support all together on their way to the graveyard. I'm thrilled with my BeoSound 5 and wouldn't trade it for any of its contemporaries, but the whole concept of a stereo was really dealt a death blow by the iPod in 2001. What we need is a delivery system and the closest thing I've seen conceptually to "the way it should be" is Sonos. The only thing that keeps it from wide adoption is that what makes it so slick for music makes it incompatible with a more global system (i.e. have to put down the Sonos and pick up the rest of your remotes to operate the rest of your system). Streaming is also a major hinderance as it requires a switched on computer and decreases network speed. 

     

    So basically if you told me you didn't want to invest in the BeoSound 5 because of what's on the horizon, I might try and talk you into it anyways, but I couldn't fundamentally disagree with the thrust of the argument. That revolution is happening all around us. If, however, you wanted to put off a television investment because of what might be out there I'd laugh. It would be like putting off buying a car because they might fly one day.

    Hope that helps  

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 02-16-2010 3:49 PM In reply to

    Re: iPad and home automation

    Good points from Trip here.

    Must smile at the negatives indicated in the link re. iPad. Given that they are talking about home automation, I'd think that both storage capacity and Flash are moot. And the article is wrong  when it comes to USB-connectivity. There isn't a USB-port on the unit, but you buy a converter which you attach to the charging port, and presto: USB 2.0

    I have an iPod Touch that I have never attached a pair of earbuds to, and which I use only for remote control of various things in my home.
    Yes, the iPad and other tablets will create a considerable change in how we relate to hardware.

    One point, Trip, when it comes to audio systems. I think there's absolutely a future for advanced audio systems with DSP adaptation and control of the sound environment, and with the possibility to easily reconfigure for various kinds of listening - and here both very small and iPad sized control screens will become ideal control interfaces, providing both an ease-of-use layer to control sources, and progressively more advanced set-up, configuration, calibration, etc. - possibilities.

    I've seen some interesting demos, and B&O have also been investigating using the DSP know-how they've developed for cars in other listening environments.

     

     

  • 02-16-2010 4:58 PM In reply to

    Re: iPad and home automation

    Soundproof, 

    I totally agree on the home audio role surviving, but I see it more as integrated into the video experience. Like the AST module launching in the BeoSystem 3 right now, it would seem that advances in listening (including the technologies to manage the media as well as process the sound) would be absorbed into the video experience much as the AppleTV, Boxee Box, etc. have done but with more of a focus on the listening experience rather than simply acting as a flashy database. 

    That's one of the reasons I like the BeoSound 5 so much. It adds an extra dimension, as B&O often does, but at $6,500 it does seem a little too purpose built. Still love it, I just feel like it's one bright idea away from irrelevance.

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 02-17-2010 3:56 PM In reply to

    • mjmedlo
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    Re: iPad and home automation

    "Like the AST module. . .launching right now"

    please explain?

    I'm ready for something new that I actually want to buy!

  • 02-17-2010 5:31 PM In reply to

    Re: iPad and home automation

    The AST module is a software feature in the BeoSystem 3 that consists of a DSP program to isolate multiple listening positions by inputting room measurements. That way poor speaker placement, which could only be dealt with in the most basic ways, can now be compensated for in the software. Several dealers are using this feature as the final touches are put on it. Should be released to the public soon.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 02-17-2010 5:41 PM In reply to

    Re: iPad and home automation

    Is the AST module only for System3 mkll  ?

    BeoVision 4 - 50 HD -  Beo5 - Beolab 5 - Beolab 7-1 - Beolab 6000 .

  • 02-17-2010 8:37 PM In reply to

    • mjmedlo
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    Re: iPad and home automation

    this of course. . 

    is what i assumed you were talking about

    I will have to get my bs3 updated with the new software

    i have 2 seating arrangements in my viewing room so i'm ready for it to come on down to t

    the consumer

    I'm ready for something new that I actually want to buy!

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