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Untitled Page
ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012 READ ONLY FORUM
This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and
1st March February 2012
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02-10-2010 6:15 AM
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Chrisreunion
- Joined on 07-01-2007
- Reunion Island
- Posts 677
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BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
I've been a loyal user of BeoPort for years now, and somehow got used to listening to NMUSIC with gaps, as I had understood that it was inherent to the Windows Media Player operating principle.
Now that I am shifting to Mac at home, I enjoy gapless music playback on Itunes, and was planning to recode all my WMA files to ALAC and use BeoPort with BM Link or Linkplayer. So I opened Windows Media Player, which I hadn't done for ages, started updating the library and played a few albums just to check everything was OK. And, to my great surprise, WMP is, like Itunes, playing gapless music..So why on earth do the B&O softwares/applications keep cutting our music in pieces?? Now I no longer want to use BeoPort with the PC and am curious to know if BeoSound 5 owners enjoy gapless playback or are in the same boat as BeoPort owners and still have to stand those drop outs while playing Mozart or Enigma albums?
Reunion Island is greeting you!
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Stan
- Joined on 04-17-2007
- Posts 593
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
The BS5 plays gapless when the music is encoded in WMA lossless.
Stan
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Beogen
- Joined on 05-12-2007
- Belgium
- Posts 135
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
I have the same problem with my music which is encoded in 320 AAC. As a test I encoded some music in WMA losless but the gap was still noticeable, although better then with AAC.
A couple of months ago I have sent a complaint to B&O but they were not very interested in my problem because it was not ranked very high on their priority list. My dealer just told me, the only way to solve this is keep on sending mails from around the world from people who would like to see this solved.
It seems that Itunes compatibility is on their list and this should solve the problem. It's difficult to understand that a free program like Itunes can handle this issue. Why on earth do they keep on handling music with this beoplayer software!!!
I have a lot of Prog Rock music, so for me this is a real issue. I'm waiting for a year now to see a breaktrough but I wonder if I will see a solution in the near future.
I will give it another year (yes, I'm very patience), otherwise I kick my system out and replace it with some nice Apple stuff. This company doesn't need two years to develop a product which is already on the market.
BTW, last week my motherboard died, very premium indeed...
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Chrisreunion
- Joined on 07-01-2007
- Reunion Island
- Posts 677
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
The irony is, I remember that my BeoSound 2 played all files without any gaps, on very low level tracks, you could hear 3 almost inaudible pops before track change, which means the software in BS2 could make the music gapless.
And guess what? My Serenata can't play gapless
Is this what is supposed to be progress?
Reunion Island is greeting you!
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Stan
- Joined on 04-17-2007
- Posts 593
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
Beogen:
BTW, last week my motherboard died, very premium indeed...
Was that your Mac motherboard? I just had the 3rd replacement logic board installed in my MacBook Pro. That's just about 1 per year. Goes well with the 2nd LCD, 2nd keyboard, 2nd optical drive and 2nd touchpad. Glad I bought that extended warranty...
Stan
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Beogen
- Joined on 05-12-2007
- Belgium
- Posts 135
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
No, It was 'only' the BM5 motherboard. I hope my MacBook Pro will last longer after reading your story.
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Chrisreunion
- Joined on 07-01-2007
- Reunion Island
- Posts 677
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
I sent a request to B&O customer service about gapless playback issues on BeoPort 2 when I wrote this post: no reply yet...
Reunion Island is greeting you!
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Beogen
- Joined on 05-12-2007
- Belgium
- Posts 135
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
Great initiative!
It also took a couple of days before I received an answer. Don't expect a positive one...
Now it's up to other members to post another request. B&O can't keep ignoring this issue.
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jk1002
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Boston USA
- Posts 1,620
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
I hate gapless playing with my Sony minidisk and lost it when switching to a 2nd gen Ipod I don't know how many years back. After it was added in, I do not want to give it up again.
I think many dealers are not even aware of this as to my knowledge the demo music is single song but nothing live, classical or DV mix live where you would want the gapless.
When complaints come in, I guess the anwser is switch to Beoplayer and Windows Media .... which is not an option for MAC users -> In a nutshell there is probably only a small customer base that has that issue.
I am hoping that they address this when they introduce Apple Lossless.
JK
BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8
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Chrisreunion
- Joined on 07-01-2007
- Reunion Island
- Posts 677
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
Below is the reply I just received from B&O customer service...leaves me speechless.. again.. :
Cannot play gapless music |
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Réponse (Helle Pramanik) |
15/02/2010 09:39 AM |
Dear Mr. Georget,
It is correct that BeoPort is unable to handle gapless music. We have to say that we do not at present have any plans for changing this but is monitoring feedback and requests, so we have passed your feedback on to the responsible department for their information.
Kind regards, Bang & Olufsen a/s
Helle Pramanik
Conclusion is: we should flood B&O with requests for gapless music playback , like we did for the BMLink update with Snow Leopard, and hopefully they will listen to us if we are enough on the boat..
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Reunion Island is greeting you!
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jk1002
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Boston USA
- Posts 1,620
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
Honestly to me the Beoport is end of life and they should actually stop selling it. I would have been very much surprised if they have any plans at all besides barebones maintenance.
For the Beosound 5 to be taken seriously as a high end digital player, it should not have the gaps. For a year 2000 device that was acceptable but now it's 2010 and the white elephant in the room doesn't have any gaps so why should that be acceptable for this high end product.
What makes me sad is, as a customer I shouldn't even have to ask for this. They should catch this in development and since they tell the customer what he wants they should have had this fixed day 1.
Yes maybe some are not bothered enough by this but for sure it's an imperfection.
BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8
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Chrisreunion
- Joined on 07-01-2007
- Reunion Island
- Posts 677
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
Is BeoConnect changing anything to this issue? If using the WMP or Itunes library/playlists, if the media player is set to gapless playback, will the B&O device play gapless as well?
Reunion Island is greeting you!
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Stan
- Joined on 04-17-2007
- Posts 593
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
Chrisreunion:
Is BeoConnect changing anything to this issue? If using the WMP or Itunes library/playlists, if the media player is set to gapless playback, will the B&O device play gapless as well?
No BeoConnect doesn't change anything.
And here we go again....
It is my understanding that the root issue is that Apple lossless is proprietary, and Apple gapless playback of AAC is proprietary. BS5/BM5 is based on Windows technology so it does not have access to Apple's proprietary intellectual property... which Apple does not license to 3rd parties.
The rare 3rd parties that do support these formats have reverse engineered the Apple technology which could make them open to lawsuits (as Apple does agressively defend its IP rights), or potentially sell products that will not work some day should Apple decide to change their lossless format.
I guess there is nothing to stop B&O from building their own AAC gapless playback, as this doesn't require reverse engineering of proprietary encoding formats, but I'd rather see them invest in useful features for which there are no workarounds.
You can use FLAC now, for gapless, lossless in addition to WMA. I wouldn't hold my breath for Apple formats as Apple doesn't license these, and it appears B&O doesn't reverse engineer others IP... Maybe you should cry to Apple for not supporting FLAC... Not that they'd listen...
Stan
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Chrisreunion
- Joined on 07-01-2007
- Reunion Island
- Posts 677
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
If it is so complicated for B&O to work with Apple, why not thinking the other way 'round??
Fit all BeoSounds with a USB input that can work as an Ipod dock, or fit a direct Ipod connector somewhere, and people will just connect their Ipod or Ipad to have gapless & ALAC playback capabilities, exactly like BS8 is doing..with metadata sent over Masterlink, as well as the sound. Since A.MEM source is now only available on BS3200 (soon being discontinued), people would activate the local Idevice source by pressing A.MEM, and everybody would be happy!
Reunion Island is greeting you!
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psand
- Joined on 05-05-2010
- Stockholm, Sweden
- Posts 48
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
Stan:
You can use FLAC now, for gapless, lossless in addition to WMA.
I may have missed something here. Can you confirm that FLAC is now also supported for gapless playing by the BeoSound 5? There was talk about a software upgrade making this happen, but I didn't know it was out yet.
Related to BM5/BS5 software upgrades, but slightly off-topic: is it now possible to exclude individual tracks from the MOTS database? This is absolutely essential for people with a lot of classical music, where individual movements (or even arias) are stored as tracks.
When these deficiencies are sorted out, I may finally be in the market for a BM5/BS5!
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Stan
- Joined on 04-17-2007
- Posts 593
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
psand:
I may have missed something here. Can you confirm that FLAC is now also supported for gapless playing by the BeoSound 5? There was talk about a software upgrade making this happen, but I didn't know it was out yet.
Related to BM5/BS5 software upgrades, but slightly off-topic: is it now possible to exclude individual tracks from the MOTS database? This is absolutely essential for people with a lot of classical music, where individual movements (or even arias) are stored as tracks.
When these deficiencies are sorted out, I may finally be in the market for a BM5/BS5!
FLAC is supported. Excluding tracks, albums and artists from MOTS is also supported. These were features of the last major release which was released a few months ago (forget when exactly).
I'm not 100% certain of FLAC being gapless - I assume it is because it is lossless. However, I currently don't have any FLAC tracks that would demonstrate this. Perhaps I'll covert some to FLAC and see. Would hate to be passing along bad info...
Stan
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Stan
- Joined on 04-17-2007
- Posts 593
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
Chrisreunion:
If it is so complicated for B&O to work with Apple, why not thinking the other way 'round??
Fit all BeoSounds with a USB input that can work as an Ipod dock, or fit a direct Ipod connector somewhere, and people will just connect their Ipod or Ipad to have gapless & ALAC playback capabilities, exactly like BS8 is doing..with metadata sent over Masterlink, as well as the sound. Since A.MEM source is now only available on BS3200 (soon being discontinued), people would activate the local Idevice source by pressing A.MEM, and everybody would be happy!
There is reason to believe they are working on something along these lines for the BS5, although I doubt it will be exactly what you suggest. See this thread for more details: http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/t/39086.aspx?PageIndex=1
Stan
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sjmcguckin
- Joined on 05-28-2010
- Posts 43
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
Stan,
I get the sense that you, like me, really appreciate the BS5/BM5 and that you fully understand, use and are very happy with the functionality.
I also sense that you are somewhat frustrated by people on this forum who don't understand the functionality but spend a lot of time criticizing and explaining (wrongly) what it can't do.
I also get the sense that you, like me, get frustrated when these same people continually blame B&O for either not partnering with Apple or not breaking Apple's copyrights. At the same time they never complain about Apple not using open standards, or at the very least licensing there technology to other companies who could be partners.
Anyway, we can always start the BS5 and let the MOTS take our frustrations away.
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Carolpa
- Joined on 08-15-2008
- Posts 440
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
sjmcguckin:
Stan,
I get the sense that you, like me, really appreciate the BS5/BM5 and that you fully understand, use and are very happy with the functionality.
I also sense that you are somewhat frustrated by people on this forum who don't understand the functionality but spend a lot of time criticizing and explaining (wrongly) what it can't do.
I also get the sense that you, like me, get frustrated when these same people continually blame B&O for either not partnering with Apple or not breaking Apple's copyrights. At the same time they never complain about Apple not using open standards, or at the very least licensing there technology to other companies who could be partners.
Anyway, we can always start the BS5 and let the MOTS take our frustrations away.
Exactly! I totally agree.........
First I didn't want to comment on any remark in this thread; nothing new; nothing positive; almost self inflicted pain, because we don't follow "Apple".
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Chrisreunion
- Joined on 07-01-2007
- Reunion Island
- Posts 677
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
Er....sorry guys:
BeoSound 8 is the first B&O product that "follows Apple".
It is arriving almost 10 years after the rest of the other manufacturers started producing Ipod docks.
And it has become in 6 months B&O's fastest & best selling audio product..
If B&O had "followed Apple" years ago, they may have lost less money (& fewer customers) during all those years..
Anyway, and back to the topic, it seems that B&O recently released a USB adaptor that you connect to your BeoMaster 5 and allows direct audio playback of any source connected to it (like an AUX port, somehow); it's better than nothing, but the BS5 screen is completely useless in that case, it won't show any metadata..
Reunion Island is greeting you!
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Tod Daniel
- Joined on 10-26-2009
- Salcombe, Devon
- Posts 498
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
Totally agree with Chrisreunion. Apple has done a lot of good for us music lovers. The BS5 should be perfect, I nearly fainted when I found out that it is now priced at £4500. Is this a crazy joke?
Apple seems to be financially saving B&O at the moment. Maybe Apple does use it's own style of formats but let's but honest, they are all good!
I've been a huge fan of B&O all of my life and im currently saving for a BV10-32 and I will be buying a BS8, however, im finding the rest of their hifi range rather bizarre and out of touch with the market. I have absolute faith that the new CEO will be turning this side of the company around!
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Carolpa
- Joined on 08-15-2008
- Posts 440
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
I like the Apple stuff (I got my share), but that said it isn't the Holy Grail?
Chrisreunion, how extensive have you used a BS5? After the last major sw update it is a good system; and one with a lot of positive response from family, friends, aquintances,................
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Stan
- Joined on 04-17-2007
- Posts 593
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
sjmcguckin:
Stan,
I get the sense that you, like me, really appreciate the BS5/BM5 and that you fully understand, use and are very happy with the functionality.
I also sense that you are somewhat frustrated by people on this forum who don't understand the functionality but spend a lot of time criticizing and explaining (wrongly) what it can't do.
I also get the sense that you, like me, get frustrated when these same people continually blame B&O for either not partnering with Apple or not breaking Apple's copyrights. At the same time they never complain about Apple not using open standards, or at the very least licensing there technology to other companies who could be partners.
Anyway, we can always start the BS5 and let the MOTS take our frustrations away.
You read well , and I'll take your medicine...
Stan
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Stan
- Joined on 04-17-2007
- Posts 593
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Re: BeoPlayer/BeoPort/BeoSound 5 & gapless music: where are we?
Chrisreunion:
Anyway, and back to the topic, it seems that B&O recently released a USB adaptor that you connect to your BeoMaster 5 and allows direct audio playback of any source connected to it (like an AUX port, somehow); it's better than nothing, but the BS5 screen is completely useless in that case, it won't show any metadata..
Just a clarification, this functionality is not yet released. The release information about this from the other thread came from a version of BS5 software that was accidentally released to a few BS5s in th wild (including mine) It was not ready, but somehow made it out. So, if you ask your dealer about this, he may not know.
I also agree that this is not a great solution, but, as you say, it is better than nothing (and the Apple hopeful can believe that this is but a first step in a longer term strategy).
It does seem like we beat this "Apple and B&O" topic to death every few months. Make no mistake, I generally like Apple and own many of their products. However, I'm not ready to throw up my hands and say all one should do is follow Apple as they are perfect. I spent some time recently inside their Cupertino offices, it seems like "perfect" is the prevailing self-image of Apple employees, their work and their company. This would worry me as arrogance tends to be a precursor to most failures. I wish them the best of luck.
Stan
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