What do you think, do we get enough quality for money from Bang&Olufsen? Are their products today as good as they were in the past?

My experiences with BeoVisions:

BV MX 7000 worket perfectly without a defect, BV 3 32'' dust behind the screen when new, was replaced, BV 7 32'' defect after 3 years

My experiences with BeoSounds:

Ouverture, cassette player defect 3 months after buying, BeoSound laser unit defect after 1 year

What I hear from other Beofans: Beosound 5 dust behind display etc, problems with BS9000 etc.

New BV10 screen problems.

I am asking myself, do I get enough quality for money from B&O? Do they test enough their products before they put them on the market?

In the Avant era the products were B&O like, nowdays finish is, but quality?

What are your experiences with quality? Do B&O have a quality problem?

mmm...interesting points and i do have to agree that i feel we are let down in some areas.  There have been many quality issues of late, but i tried to cover some of these concerns previously.  Management are aware of the issues and they are in process of being addressed.  In fact a steering committee and management group have been implemented to take care of some of these issues.

Unfortuantly, screen issues are painful and are usually - not always, but usually a result of these screens being very fragile and being damaged in transit to or from Bang.  However, procedures are in place to deal with defective screens as quickly as possible.  This was an advatage with the CRT era, as generally these were more hardy - and only came from Philips rather than asia.

The other issue that has plagued many manufacturers is the changes in policies relating to the manufacture of electronics - including removing many hazardous substances from circuitry - lead in particular which would strengthen solder joints.  Once again, TV's that do not function on delivery are replaced generally.  DVD mechanisms etc also plagued the BV7 in particular - but these have since been improved.

BS5 screen dust was an oversight with supplier and the rubber shrunk.  BS9000 Laser has also been an issue but this has since been rectified.  This was due to supplier changes.

Whether things are still rigurously tested - yes.  Many items are tested throughout the world before release and feedback is relayed back to Struer and adjustments are made.

What could improve is the way Struer deals with these issues!

avus17:

What do you think, do we get enough quality for money from Bang&Olufsen? Are their products today as good as they were in the past?

My experiences with BeoVisions:

BV MX 7000 worket perfectly without a defect, BV 3 32'' dust behind the screen when new, was replaced, BV 7 32'' defect after 3 years

My experiences with BeoSounds:

Ouverture, cassette player defect 3 months after buying, BeoSound laser unit defect after 1 year

What I hear from other Beofans: Beosound 5 dust behind display etc, problems with BS9000 etc.

New BV10 screen problems.

I am asking myself, do I get enough quality for money from B&O? Do they test enough their products before they put them on the market?

In the Avant era the products were B&O like, nowdays finish is, but quality?

What are your experiences with quality? Do B&O have a quality problem?

Difficult to say. As remarked elsewhere numerous times, older equipment is more repairable. Newer models are probably more reliable, but if they do go wrong then it's a case of replacing major modules or recycling and buying a new model again. Reading the posts on the BV10 screen problems, you do have to ask whether there is sufficient quality control on checking bought-in major components.

As a parallel in technology, think about what has happened with cars. 40 years ago cars were repairable, component by component, by your average mechanic. The build quality was a different matter: you could expect major corrosion within three or four years, and most engines were considered to be on the way out after 30k miles, needing major cylinder head overhauls and decokes at 60k miles. Now a petrol engined car can run perfectly for 200k+ miles with only routine oil changes, and bodywork is routinely guaranteed against corrosion for 6 or 10 years+. But if a problem arises, it can only be diagnosed with special equipment, and the repair will often involve replacing or exchanging very expensive complete mechanical or electronic modules or components.

So the same sort of advances, with the same consequences, are taking place in all areas of technology. B&O really do have a problem if they are failing to spot defective screens etc before they get built-into their products. I can live with the risk that a small percentage of products may fail prematurely if the majority will have a very long reliable life. However I don't want to risk spending too much on new technology if, according to so many of these forum contributors, there's a significant risk of receiving a product with faults already built-in!

B&O share prices have suffered a major fall in value since the 'credit crunch'. There have been more falls in the past week following the latest financial report.  Customers are being lost. Even if B&O now relies more than ever on a 'Wealthy' clientel, if the quality is not evident the name B&O will very soon not be enough on its own for the company to survive.

Graham

I have to say NO!!. At the moment you do not at all get what you pay for when you buy the newer products.  There are way to many problems with these products and despite B&O knowing this, they keep selling them, and therefore dont care about their customers. The products rely primary on software, and unfortunately B&O are not qualified enough to deliver this. The financial crisis has resulted in a change of focus from the concern. Instead of providing high quality products to qualityaware customers, they now provide faulty and "unfinished" products to ...well everyone. They may well think the only solution to surviving is sales sales sales on a short term basis, however they will loose a lot of loyal customers in doing so. Hopefully they have seen the latest discussions in here as it is very clear, that the customer and user perceptions are changing to the worse...

SO...stop making new products until your present productline works as intended!!!

/Ehlerz

I have (almost) only positive experiences with B&O.

Everything has worked perfectly, except a tube in an MX4002 which made the picture turn green. Happened just a week old, and replaced immediately.

This website is full of bad experiences from B&O products. For us B&O enthusiasts, a new product, or the anticipation for future products is something we will always feel. BUT. Anyone who has been around on this area for some year just knows that the fresh new B&O product should be tested first (sadly by other more eager customers) and then he decides if he will go for it. You have to admit that the confidence over B&O quality has been lost....Hopefully they will try hard in Struer to change that. For the time being i am not optimistic on that.

The BEO(who)CARE(s) attitude is the one that rules now over there.

Just had a call from my service department about my BV7 32'' that is 4 years old, a charging part is defect and the whole new chassis has to be replaced. A lot of money after only 4 years (about 400,-€). No warannty and also no compliance as there is praxis in automobile branch.

I think my BV MX7000 was the best TV I have ever had. A pity I have sold it.=(

But I do like B&O as for design and easy to use of products, hope I will not get sick of B&O because of bad quality as almost every product from them, except BeoLabs was faulty. I almost fear to give so much money for another TV as I will someday need a bigger screen. So which one to buy? BV10 with screen problems or even expensiver BV7 40/55 with I don't know what problem.

Where are B&O after waranty has gone and problems because of bad quality show up?

P.S. But charging big prices goes on.......... every year also some % up for the same product LOL

The short answer is Yes. Absolutely. 

Whatever issues arise are given disproportionate attention on sites like this because it's a community of enthusiasts. Even when an issue appears to be an "epidemic" or a "plague" it still affects a very small number of users. Similarly you can visit other "enthusiast" oriented sites and users will lament what's become of various and sundry brands. From clothing to whiskey, nothing is what it used to be. Very seldom is that objectively true. Things change and value judgements are individual in such cases.

So even if you experience a problem, at least you're experiencing it with Bang & Olufsen where, by and large, your service is going to be first rate in getting the matter dealt with. I've been at the other end of the phone (since there's no one in person to deal with it) with HP, Sony, Samsung, and more just in the electronics segment and there's a clear difference in service.

Actually I agree with Trip. All my recent purchases have been of excellent quality. I suppose I do look with rose tinted spectacles at the older equipment where just about the entire content was B&O - I am thinking audio here of course! - but I do believe that B&O select their suppliers carefully in the main and I for one am happy to pay the premium. I rely on my dealer and this site to point out the turkeys!

TripEnglish:

The short answer is Yes. Absolutely. 

Whatever issues arise are given disproportionate attention on sites like this because it's a community of enthusiasts. Even when an issue appears to be an "epidemic" or a "plague" it still affects a very small number of users. Similarly you can visit other "enthusiast" oriented sites and users will lament what's become of various and sundry brands. From clothing to whiskey, nothing is what it used to be. Very seldom is that objectively true. Things change and value judgements are individual in such cases.

So even if you experience a problem, at least you're experiencing it with Bang & Olufsen where, by and large, your service is going to be first rate in getting the matter dealt with. I've been at the other end of the phone (since there's no one in person to deal with it) with HP, Sony, Samsung, and more just in the electronics segment and there's a clear difference in service.

I'd really like to believe this, Trip. This enthusiasts forum displays a great range of satisfied customers, as well as those who have been less than happy with a product. But if the site is a representative sample of B&O owners (or even slightly unrepresentative in that the majority may view the B&O world through Peter's rose tinted glasses), it still suggests that there may be a significant percentage of customers with problem products.  Many alleged problems (BV10 screens, Beocom5 software etc) would appear to be entirely detectable before products are offered for sale. It would be interesting to know how B&O's percentage of 'problem' products compares with that of Apple.

Graham

Due to the high prices generally charged why not give a no quibble 10 year Guarantee.

after all miele,mcintosh labs give superb warrantys

MGBGTV8:

Due to the high prices generally charged why not give a no quibble 10 year Guarantee.

after all miele,mcintosh labs give superb warrantys

John Lewis in the UK give a 5 year guarantee on all televisions, regardless of the manufacturer's warranty.

JL used to sell B&O (before the introduction of UK stand-alone B&O shops.) Interesting to wonder whether JL would have that universal TV guarantee if it was still selling B&O!

Graham

John Lewis in the UK give a 5 year guarantee on all televisions, regardless of the manufacturer's warranty.

JL used to sell B&O (before the introduction of UK stand-alone B&O shops.) Interesting to wonder whether JL would have that universal TV guarantee if it was still selling B&O!

Graham

Maybe thats one reason why JL dont sell B&O products

And don't forget that you often hear about the few faulty products as their owners tend to make their opinion very clear.
You rarely hear from the thousands of happy owners.

When it comes to testing products, I don't think you will find any other brand working as hard as B&O
and the more you squeeze into a product the higher the risk of something going wrong.
Compare todays products with 20-30 year old ones and see the difference in integration.

Martin

Dillen:

And don't forget that you often hear about the few faulty products as their owners tend to make their opinion very clear.
You rarely hear from the thousands of happy owners.

Sad but true...

beocool:

Dillen:

And don't forget that you often hear about the few faulty products as their owners tend to make their opinion very clear.
You rarely hear from the thousands of happy owners.

Sad but true...

Agreed! ...and, yes (hold your breath) I agree with Trip!

I am guilty... I often have to remove my BW blinders and realize that the majority of posts are people announcing issues, looking for fixes, etc... Rarely is there outright disappointment with any particular product on the whole. Personally, I am an old school guy and can't fairly comment on recent products and any issues they might have. All I can say is that the most recent product I do own (BS9000) has been a veritable kitchen appliance. Plug it in and go... never an issue! All in all, and to the point of the topic: Yes, the quality is there.

Too often, it is like watching (reading) a train wreck in slow motion, or tuning into the nightly news! ALL BAD AND NO GOOD!

How about a thread: I LOVE MY B&o!

Dillen:

And don't forget that you often hear about the few faulty products... 

But that is the problem. If it was ONLY occasionally faulty products everyone could live with that. But for a product to be faulty, i has to be compared with a working one. SO are the DVB-HD modules faulty? I dont think so because it has NEVER worked as intended.  It the wast majority received their products without faults, the problem would not be bigger than it has always been in the electronicbusiness. However it is IMO not great value for money when you buy a tv, that as standard has a lot of limitations/faults etc, that B&O then afterwards (maybe) attend to through software updates etc. Nowhere else do they sell faulty products out of the box, while being perfectly aware of these problems!!

/Ehlerz

MGBGTV8:

Due to the high prices generally charged why not give a no quibble 10 year Guarantee

after all miele, mcintosh labs give superb warrantys.

This is the real solution. Also cars are going this way (although there are still country differences e.g. Saab UK 3 years, Saab US 4 years.)  Some car manufacturers are starting to move towards 100k mile/ 7 year guarantees. 

A free ten year guarantee (not really free but built into the retail price.) The risk is with B&O, and they then make sure that the products are robust and are sent out without defects.

Dyson (vacuum cleaners) had a brief period of manufacturing washing machines that came with a 5 year guarantee. After the guarantee expires, they will still come out for a fixed fee, and whilst they are sorting out your problem they will fix any other potential issues and then give you a further guarantee. And they can do this on a product they haven't manufactured for 5 years!

Graham

3 years, IMHO, is sufficient for today's electronics.  However, what is NOT sufficient is the actual elevel of diagnostic and repair capability that B&O some repair shops have.  They seem, so to speak, to be just a page ahead of me in their shop manuals.

I think that since software will rule in the future, B&O MUST be better at amassing and deseminating info about bugs and fixes.

Barry

I would fully concur with Barry. Buying B&O implies a premium in price for durability, longterm service promise and competence... things can happen and then personal, quick and caring service and know-how are key.  I have lived in several countries and so far - skilled technicians when the equipment had malfunctions. However, buyers should not never be final "betatesters".

answer on your first question is NO or better :I don't know:

But one thing I know for sure.

They look and sound damn GOOD, and I'm willing to pay that " for sure " !

Well actually, they really do extensive tests, more than other brand's. About years ago, when the Beovision 3 was made, i worked for Jabil Circuits in Bruges (Belgium) and also they make printed circuit boards for Philips also,but the difference is: The tuner prints were then made, and after they were made, the metal shields must be perfect soldered (or B&o would send them back) and before a tuner print was tested on a BV3, the tuner prints must warming-up for 24 hours on lab power supply's  before the were tested on the tv! and they tested per 12 print's! (there was a red led, and turned green after 24 hours,or when a print was defective the led was not burning) So i was crazy about B&o,but i was really shoqued that they are doing such an extremely testing procedure!. About fault's well, if you buy the newest car, you can have issue's and the first buyers are actually the testers,and then they correct the fault, so other (ppl who buy later) don't have these issues anymore. But everybody jump's on the newest from the newest, so it is a possibility that there are faults in a product. But besides that, i still love B&O !

kronzilla:

,but the difference is: The tuner prints were then made, and after they were made, the metal shields must be perfect soldered (or B&o would send them back)

Fat chance tryin that with a supplier from China.  Send their stuff back, and you're up for blacklisting...i.e., no one will make your stuff (cheaply, that is).

"You're deemed too fussy!"

Barry

If it's generally of interest:

iPods have around a 15% failure rate

Laptops have over 20% failure rate (mac included here)

Televisions seem to hover just under 10%

B&O is around 2-3% (internal numbers, I don't think any external body has done a review on us) This is based on warranty claims to mfg. 

We're remarkably low for electronics and although some items exhibit greater reliability issues than others (BeoSound 3), on the whole, issues are limited and resolved in 4-6 weeks.

You can still argue, and be correct, that you don't need a BeoVision that costs more than a Samsung, but you can't reasonably say it has anything to do on being less (or at least no more) reliable.