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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 03-18-2010 2:27 AM by Dave. 58 replies.
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  • 02-16-2010 4:31 PM In reply to

    • KMA
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-13-2007
    • Posts 101
    • Silver Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    BeoVision 10, video black, normal evening viewing conditions:

    BeoVision 10, video black, near dark viewing conditions:

    A scene from Dare Devil, near dark viewing conditions:

     

    A scene from Dare Devil, normal evening viewing conditions:

    A total of 96 images were taken from the backlight defect, but I think you get the idea...

    KMA

    Current setup: BeoVision 10-46 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand) with Apple TV 2 (FireCore), Sony BDP-S780, Mac Mini, BeoLab 11 (silver), Beo5, BeoSound 8 (red speaker covers). Accessories: A8 Earphones, wine bottle coasters.


    B&O product history, in chronological order since 1990, after the onset of the treaded BeoVirus (I tend to upgrade/change my setup "infrequently"): BeoSystem 2500 (with blue speaker covers), BeoLink 5000, BeoSystem 7000 (complete; silver/black), BeoLink 7000, RedLine 60.2, BeoVox Penta, BeoVision MX4000 (black, motorized floor stand), BeoCord VX5000 (black), BeoSystem 4500 (complete), BeoCenter 9500, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoVision Avant (original, 28" AR, VHS, green), BeoCenter 2300, BeoVision 3-32 (grey speaker frame, AR, motorised cabinet), DVD1 (grey), BeoCord V8000 (grey), Beo4, BeoSound Ouverture (w/ floor cabinet stand), BeoVision Avant RF (grey, 32", AR, VHS), BeoSound 9000, BeoCenter AV5 (blue), BeoVision 1 (yellow, motorized floor stand), Beo1, BeoSound Century (yellow), BeoCenter 1 (blue, AR, motorized floor stand), BeoSound 1 (silver, floor stand), BeoVision Avant RF DVD (grey, 32", AR), BeoVision 7-32 MkI (AR, motorized floor stand), BeoLab 3 (black), BeoSound 2, BeoVision 10-40 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand).

  • 02-16-2010 4:38 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    Wow! Surprise

    A picture is worth a thousand words!

    Much worse than I ever imagined!

    • B&o bottle opener
  • 02-16-2010 4:47 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    jezus!Surprise

  • 02-16-2010 4:47 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    double post

  • 02-16-2010 5:04 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    Kma....Sorry to see your having porblems with you Bv10 and the Pictures you took look really bad and I for one  would not Keep that Tv,it would be going straight back to the dealers for a replacement!  and if the replacement was the same,a diffrent model or a refund!

    And how B&O can say it's not a fault and to me the tv is not fit for use!

    I hope you get it sorted!

    Bv7-55 & Bv7-32...Blue,lab1's x4,Yes4Blue, 6000x4Blue,Beocom6000 Blue,Beo5.Oh what a Blue set-up & a Beosound 5...After all,its Bang&Olufsen!

  • 02-16-2010 5:09 PM In reply to

    • KMA
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-13-2007
    • Posts 101
    • Silver Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    RWST:

    It's astonishing that a LCD screen in a price range of a BV10 from B&O or from any brand from that matter, could be defected by backlighting defaults. Especially from a luxury/prestigious brand as B&O, one should expect a flawless product, manufactured with the highest precision and highest quality material. On the latter, it is obviously not the case in your situation. If "clouding" is a "common" issue with EdgeLED panels then a company with the image of B&O should not even considder manufacturing EdgeLED products, in other words; As B&O, you produce high quality top of the range products or you DON'T! It is for this reasoning, that I have difficulty in accepting your dealer's reply. Even more, I doubt if this is B&O's official stance concerning the matter.

    RWST,

    I could not agree with you more. I've owned literally dozens of B&O products, both audio and video, over the years. When the "flat-TV revolution" came, and B&O fell behind of the rapid pace of the competition, I gave up the brand in 2005. Now I am really starting to regret that I have returned to B&O, although my love for the brand and what it stands for (or at least used to stand for), is very deeply rooted. B&O can bring such joy to everyday life, and really become a integral part of it. Alas, also the opposite of joy seems to be possible.

    In all honesty, I am worried where B&O are going: their after sales service used to be perfect, making it a carefree brand, where you feel you are appreciated and looked after, without any undue effort. Any defects, and I really didn't run into many with them back in 1990s and early 2000s, were dealt with swiftly.

    If one spots "a spot" in Louis Vuitton leather, they don't call it characteristic of the material used. They apologize and get you a faultless one. Even in these challenging economic times.

    Now, I think I need a nostalgic beer :)

     

    KMA

    Current setup: BeoVision 10-46 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand) with Apple TV 2 (FireCore), Sony BDP-S780, Mac Mini, BeoLab 11 (silver), Beo5, BeoSound 8 (red speaker covers). Accessories: A8 Earphones, wine bottle coasters.


    B&O product history, in chronological order since 1990, after the onset of the treaded BeoVirus (I tend to upgrade/change my setup "infrequently"): BeoSystem 2500 (with blue speaker covers), BeoLink 5000, BeoSystem 7000 (complete; silver/black), BeoLink 7000, RedLine 60.2, BeoVox Penta, BeoVision MX4000 (black, motorized floor stand), BeoCord VX5000 (black), BeoSystem 4500 (complete), BeoCenter 9500, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoVision Avant (original, 28" AR, VHS, green), BeoCenter 2300, BeoVision 3-32 (grey speaker frame, AR, motorised cabinet), DVD1 (grey), BeoCord V8000 (grey), Beo4, BeoSound Ouverture (w/ floor cabinet stand), BeoVision Avant RF (grey, 32", AR, VHS), BeoSound 9000, BeoCenter AV5 (blue), BeoVision 1 (yellow, motorized floor stand), Beo1, BeoSound Century (yellow), BeoCenter 1 (blue, AR, motorized floor stand), BeoSound 1 (silver, floor stand), BeoVision Avant RF DVD (grey, 32", AR), BeoVision 7-32 MkI (AR, motorized floor stand), BeoLab 3 (black), BeoSound 2, BeoVision 10-40 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand).

  • 02-16-2010 5:15 PM In reply to

    • KMA
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-13-2007
    • Posts 101
    • Silver Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    koning:

    jezus!Surprise

    From your words to god'z ears :D

    But seriously, yes, unfortunately so.

    KMA

    Current setup: BeoVision 10-46 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand) with Apple TV 2 (FireCore), Sony BDP-S780, Mac Mini, BeoLab 11 (silver), Beo5, BeoSound 8 (red speaker covers). Accessories: A8 Earphones, wine bottle coasters.


    B&O product history, in chronological order since 1990, after the onset of the treaded BeoVirus (I tend to upgrade/change my setup "infrequently"): BeoSystem 2500 (with blue speaker covers), BeoLink 5000, BeoSystem 7000 (complete; silver/black), BeoLink 7000, RedLine 60.2, BeoVox Penta, BeoVision MX4000 (black, motorized floor stand), BeoCord VX5000 (black), BeoSystem 4500 (complete), BeoCenter 9500, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoVision Avant (original, 28" AR, VHS, green), BeoCenter 2300, BeoVision 3-32 (grey speaker frame, AR, motorised cabinet), DVD1 (grey), BeoCord V8000 (grey), Beo4, BeoSound Ouverture (w/ floor cabinet stand), BeoVision Avant RF (grey, 32", AR, VHS), BeoSound 9000, BeoCenter AV5 (blue), BeoVision 1 (yellow, motorized floor stand), Beo1, BeoSound Century (yellow), BeoCenter 1 (blue, AR, motorized floor stand), BeoSound 1 (silver, floor stand), BeoVision Avant RF DVD (grey, 32", AR), BeoVision 7-32 MkI (AR, motorized floor stand), BeoLab 3 (black), BeoSound 2, BeoVision 10-40 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand).

  • 02-18-2010 3:04 PM In reply to

    • RWST
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 01-12-2010
    • Amsterdam, NL
    • Posts 50
    • Bronze Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    KMA:

    Interesting.

    I just had a chat with my dealer about the backlight issue, and according to them, currently B&O's position on the matter is that clouding is NOT a defect, but "something common to the EdgeLED panel type".

    As such, apparently B&O does not currently service the panels that have poor backlight uniformity.

    In any case, I am having the backlight clouding photographed by a professional, carry on with my complaint through my dealer, and will take it to any level necessary to get it fixed. That includes buying a new panel and having it exchanged as an operation not covered by the warranty, at my own expense

     

    KMA,

    Looking at the posted pictures of your clearly defected BV10 and the feedback you received from your dealer, you should ask him what he has been smoking and whether it comes from Amsterdam.  But for real, you can't take his comment serious!

    I would suggest you print out your pictures and this entire thread and FedEx it to the Head of Consumer Services B&O, and even to the CEO, why not, and see whether they still stand by their "current" position towards clouding.

    Chapeau to you for keeping the humor in a case like yours.

    To me it seems clear cut, you should get a replacement, also it seems to me your dealer is taking your issue too lightly and seems not willing to take proper actions (read service). So far I have encounterd no "issues" with my dealers in Amsterdam and Zurich, but if I would get the same service or rather no service, I would seriously consider changing dealer and take your money some where else.

    In any case, keep us posted.

    Thanks

     

  • 02-18-2010 4:21 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    I have read this post with interest, and am simply staggered at the reported responses of Dealer and B&O alike.  

    I have bought a BV10 and if my screen displays vagaries like these ever within the 3 year warranty period it will be going back to the supplying Dealer.  Simply not acceptable.

  • 02-18-2010 4:49 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    Here I am on the verge of ordering a BV10-40 and now wondering what I can do to protect myself from getting a dodgy screen!

    I also have the problem of deciding who to give my business to as my Brighton dealer who I have used for the last 10 years is no longer there?

    Thoughts?

  • 02-18-2010 6:55 PM In reply to

    • KMA
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-13-2007
    • Posts 101
    • Silver Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    RWST:

    KMA:

    Interesting.

    I just had a chat with my dealer about the backlight issue, and according to them, currently B&O's position on the matter is that clouding is NOT a defect, but "something common to the EdgeLED panel type".

    As such, apparently B&O does not currently service the panels that have poor backlight uniformity.

    In any case, I am having the backlight clouding photographed by a professional, carry on with my complaint through my dealer, and will take it to any level necessary to get it fixed. That includes buying a new panel and having it exchanged as an operation not covered by the warranty, at my own expense

     

     

    KMA,

    Looking at the posted pictures of your clearly defected BV10 and the feedback you received from your dealer, you should ask him what he has been smoking and whether it comes from Amsterdam.  But for real, you can't take his comment serious!

    I would suggest you print out your pictures and this entire thread and FedEx it to the Head of Consumer Services B&O, and even to the CEO, why not, and see whether they still stand by their "current" position towards clouding.

    Chapeau to you for keeping the humor in a case like yours.

    To me it seems clear cut, you should get a replacement, also it seems to me your dealer is taking your issue too lightly and seems not willing to take proper actions (read service). So far I have encounterd no "issues" with my dealers in Amsterdam and Zurich, but if I would get the same service or rather no service, I would seriously consider changing dealer and take your money some where else.

    In any case, keep us posted.

    Thanks

     

    Hi RWST,

    Actually, I have nothing bad to say about my dealer - they have always been very helpful and accommodating. In this case my understanding is that their hands are tied by B&O's position, or lack there of. Mine is not the first BeoVision 10 backlight case they've complained to Struer.

    In agreement with my dealer, I've made a demand for a solution to B&O Denmark myself as well.

    Failing a solution, an exhaustive complaint is ready for filing with ECC and the Consumer Agency. The sad part is, that by default, it needs to involve my dealer.

    Since I do want to give B&O all reasonable chances to remedy the situation at their own initiative, before effectively filing the complaint, I will FedEx it to B&O to study, and give them fair time to sort things out.

    As someone from this Forum (whom I also know outside the Forum) put it, this must be quite embarrassing for B&O, and I do hope that B&O finds and offers a solution that resolves my case, and possibly other similar cases with BeoVision 10s so far, and in the future.

    I'll keep you posted, and thanks for rooting for this case.

    KMA

    Current setup: BeoVision 10-46 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand) with Apple TV 2 (FireCore), Sony BDP-S780, Mac Mini, BeoLab 11 (silver), Beo5, BeoSound 8 (red speaker covers). Accessories: A8 Earphones, wine bottle coasters.


    B&O product history, in chronological order since 1990, after the onset of the treaded BeoVirus (I tend to upgrade/change my setup "infrequently"): BeoSystem 2500 (with blue speaker covers), BeoLink 5000, BeoSystem 7000 (complete; silver/black), BeoLink 7000, RedLine 60.2, BeoVox Penta, BeoVision MX4000 (black, motorized floor stand), BeoCord VX5000 (black), BeoSystem 4500 (complete), BeoCenter 9500, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoVision Avant (original, 28" AR, VHS, green), BeoCenter 2300, BeoVision 3-32 (grey speaker frame, AR, motorised cabinet), DVD1 (grey), BeoCord V8000 (grey), Beo4, BeoSound Ouverture (w/ floor cabinet stand), BeoVision Avant RF (grey, 32", AR, VHS), BeoSound 9000, BeoCenter AV5 (blue), BeoVision 1 (yellow, motorized floor stand), Beo1, BeoSound Century (yellow), BeoCenter 1 (blue, AR, motorized floor stand), BeoSound 1 (silver, floor stand), BeoVision Avant RF DVD (grey, 32", AR), BeoVision 7-32 MkI (AR, motorized floor stand), BeoLab 3 (black), BeoSound 2, BeoVision 10-40 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand).

  • 02-19-2010 2:39 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    KMA:

    As someone from this Forum (whom I also know outside the Forum) put it, this must be quite embarrassing for B&O...

    We also forget all the BV7-40 sw issues they've experienced since the MKIII was launched in October 2007. More embarassing if you ask me - a crashing TV is the worst possible scenario!

    However, it took me many months to get this sorted and, eventually, I have a BV7-40 MKIV that doesn't crash. So far, so good.

    No idea why B&O haven't swapped out your TV though. Normally that's your dealer who pushes for this. My BV7-40s (yes, multiple TVs) were only swapped out due to my dealer insisting that B&O try a new TV. They were proved right...

  • 02-22-2010 5:08 PM In reply to

    • KMA
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-13-2007
    • Posts 101
    • Silver Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    A short follow-up:

    I dropped of a copy of the ECC / CA complaint to my dealer today, and had a very nice and enlightening talk with them. They were very confident that B&O needs to react on this, and do something about the defective panels.

    A courier is on its way to deliver another copy of the complaint to B&O, Struer.

    In the complaint, I extended another 21 days for B&O (Struer and/or my dealer) to come up with a remedy: I simply want a faultless BeoVision 10 that lives up to the B&O standards I've paid for.

    So now it's a waiting game, before this either gets resolved or escalated to any official proceedings necessary.

    KMA

    Current setup: BeoVision 10-46 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand) with Apple TV 2 (FireCore), Sony BDP-S780, Mac Mini, BeoLab 11 (silver), Beo5, BeoSound 8 (red speaker covers). Accessories: A8 Earphones, wine bottle coasters.


    B&O product history, in chronological order since 1990, after the onset of the treaded BeoVirus (I tend to upgrade/change my setup "infrequently"): BeoSystem 2500 (with blue speaker covers), BeoLink 5000, BeoSystem 7000 (complete; silver/black), BeoLink 7000, RedLine 60.2, BeoVox Penta, BeoVision MX4000 (black, motorized floor stand), BeoCord VX5000 (black), BeoSystem 4500 (complete), BeoCenter 9500, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoVision Avant (original, 28" AR, VHS, green), BeoCenter 2300, BeoVision 3-32 (grey speaker frame, AR, motorised cabinet), DVD1 (grey), BeoCord V8000 (grey), Beo4, BeoSound Ouverture (w/ floor cabinet stand), BeoVision Avant RF (grey, 32", AR, VHS), BeoSound 9000, BeoCenter AV5 (blue), BeoVision 1 (yellow, motorized floor stand), Beo1, BeoSound Century (yellow), BeoCenter 1 (blue, AR, motorized floor stand), BeoSound 1 (silver, floor stand), BeoVision Avant RF DVD (grey, 32", AR), BeoVision 7-32 MkI (AR, motorized floor stand), BeoLab 3 (black), BeoSound 2, BeoVision 10-40 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand).

  • 02-23-2010 1:16 PM In reply to

    • RWST
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 01-12-2010
    • Amsterdam, NL
    • Posts 50
    • Bronze Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    Hi KMA,

    With my dealer in Amsterdam, I discussed the matter and even showed him the pictures you posted. Without hesitation, he responded that he would instantly return any BV10 back to B&O, if it looks anything like yours, provided it is a factory default, obviously.

    It seems to me your dealer is taking the "easy" route to find his way out of this case.

    Anyways, I'm curious how both, your dealer and B&O, reply to your ECC/CA complaint.

    I simply can't imagine you not getting your BV10 replaced.

    Regards

  • 02-23-2010 3:29 PM In reply to

    • KMA
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-13-2007
    • Posts 101
    • Silver Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    RWST:

    I simply can't imagine you not getting your BV10 replaced.

    Me neither...

    Let's wait and see what happens.

    Thanks for the feedback from your dealer!

     

    KMA

    Current setup: BeoVision 10-46 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand) with Apple TV 2 (FireCore), Sony BDP-S780, Mac Mini, BeoLab 11 (silver), Beo5, BeoSound 8 (red speaker covers). Accessories: A8 Earphones, wine bottle coasters.


    B&O product history, in chronological order since 1990, after the onset of the treaded BeoVirus (I tend to upgrade/change my setup "infrequently"): BeoSystem 2500 (with blue speaker covers), BeoLink 5000, BeoSystem 7000 (complete; silver/black), BeoLink 7000, RedLine 60.2, BeoVox Penta, BeoVision MX4000 (black, motorized floor stand), BeoCord VX5000 (black), BeoSystem 4500 (complete), BeoCenter 9500, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoVision Avant (original, 28" AR, VHS, green), BeoCenter 2300, BeoVision 3-32 (grey speaker frame, AR, motorised cabinet), DVD1 (grey), BeoCord V8000 (grey), Beo4, BeoSound Ouverture (w/ floor cabinet stand), BeoVision Avant RF (grey, 32", AR, VHS), BeoSound 9000, BeoCenter AV5 (blue), BeoVision 1 (yellow, motorized floor stand), Beo1, BeoSound Century (yellow), BeoCenter 1 (blue, AR, motorized floor stand), BeoSound 1 (silver, floor stand), BeoVision Avant RF DVD (grey, 32", AR), BeoVision 7-32 MkI (AR, motorized floor stand), BeoLab 3 (black), BeoSound 2, BeoVision 10-40 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand).

  • 02-24-2010 8:05 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    Hi KMA. Good luck with your complaint but not sure how good your chance of getting a fix is. Web forums are full of Samsung LED clouding issues. Seems to be a basic design problem (characteristic?) of the lightguide rather than a manufacturing fault - most run fine, some cloud from the start. Some reports of replacement panels that run OK for a while then cloud after a few weeks. If the clouding is unacceptable to you now you may be better off going for your money back rather than a cure. Could this be an example of B&O throwing off its traditional caution and being too quick to adopt a new technology?

  • 02-24-2010 1:44 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    KMA:

    BeoVision 10, video black, normal evening viewing conditions:

    BeoVision 10, video black, near dark viewing conditions:

    A scene from Dare Devil, near dark viewing conditions:

     

    A scene from Dare Devil, normal evening viewing conditions:

    A total of 96 images were taken from the backlight defect, but I think you get the idea...

    Wow, that looks really bad. 

    I have a BV10 which also has some clouding issues, but nowhere near these pictures. My TV you see some "clouds" when everything is black, and it is really dark in the room, and it is never visible when watching a movie. So it is not a problem for me. But your TV shall obviously not be like that. Hope you get a new TV instead of this one.

    Good luck!

    BV10, Avant DVD, BL5, BL4000, BS2300, BV6-26, MX 4002, 2xBeocom 6000, LC2

  • 02-24-2010 8:16 PM In reply to

    • KMA
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-13-2007
    • Posts 101
    • Silver Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    Hardwriter:

    Hi KMA. Good luck with your complaint but not sure how good your chance of getting a fix is. Web forums are full of Samsung LED clouding issues. Seems to be a basic design problem (characteristic?) of the lightguide rather than a manufacturing fault - most run fine, some cloud from the start. Some reports of replacement panels that run OK for a while then cloud after a few weeks. If the clouding is unacceptable to you now you may be better off going for your money back rather than a cure. Could this be an example of B&O throwing off its traditional caution and being too quick to adopt a new technology?

    Hi Hardwriter (I like your screen name!),

    I do not consider "luck" being a factor in this case, and I am certain that there is a fix, simply because:

    1) There is a majority of BeoVision 10 televisions that do not exhibit a visible, distracting backlight defect in normal viewing conditions. If ALL BeoVision 10 televisions had the same defect as I have, I would never have bought a TV with such an obvious fault, and I should have been made aware of such "characteristics" by B&O or by my dealer. I doubt B&O would have ever introduced such a TV to the market.

    2) If, on inspection, B&O or my dealer would claim that what I see on my TV is "within specs" (and I will require the exact specs and how they are measured) or "characteristics" to the technology, then, given what B&O claims, I will demand, in public or in small claims court, or in court, that B&O withhold all claims that "the human eye is the final judge" of picture quality. Consequently (and this is deliberately escalated for the sake of an argument), they can effectively fire their viewing panel and discontinue the media room, and never claim that BeoVision 10 lives up to the expected B&O picture standards, which so far in my experience have been subject to no such defects (clouding, etc.). What I see is what I see, and it will not fly with an 6000 € television. In the past I have owned an Avant 28", BeoCenter AV5, Avant 32" RF DVD, BeoCenter 1, BeoVision 3 and BeoVision 7, all with no visible faults in the picture. I have also recently owned a Samsung edgeLED TV (40B7070), preceding my BeoVision 10, with no such visible defects in the backlight or otherwise, and my colleague, to whom I sold it to, is more than happy with it.

    3) If B&O is adopting a technology, where the margin of error is greater than usual, and their quality control can't keep up with the production, then that is a fault where they can be held accountable for: with proper QC, as can be expected from the brand and the price range, I should never see clouding on my BeoVision 10.

    4) If I cannot have a BeoVision 10 that has a visibly faultless picture quality, I will want my money back, as you suggest. In this case, I do not see much of a future for this otherwise magnificent TV, and the 46" model that will follow. In terms of screen size, the 46" model will be even more prone to backlight defects, given the "characteristics" of the technology: bigger panels are more susceptible for an uneven backlight (forgoing the diligent quality control that can and should be expected from B&O). Given the hundreds of thousands of edgeLED panels Samsung has manufactured, I dare say that the "cloudy" ones are not the standard.

    My complaint to ECC/CA explains in detail what B&O promises for their picture quality. "Clouding" that impairs dark scenes or the viewing of a BeoVision 10 in evening lighting conditions, is not by any means within the promised quality. Even Samsung exchanges their TVs with such an obvious defect. B&O may unwisely claim otherwise, but then they simply undermine their own standards. 

    All the above may sound harsh: I just get quite irritated when I hear any claims that manufacturers say an obvious defect is somehow inherent to a technology, or a design thereof.

    I'm sorry for yet again voicing my opinion so bluntly... 

    On a lighter note, and totally off-topic, I am so looking forward to BeoLab 11 -- to complement the impressive sound of BeoVision 10.

     

    KMA

    Current setup: BeoVision 10-46 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand) with Apple TV 2 (FireCore), Sony BDP-S780, Mac Mini, BeoLab 11 (silver), Beo5, BeoSound 8 (red speaker covers). Accessories: A8 Earphones, wine bottle coasters.


    B&O product history, in chronological order since 1990, after the onset of the treaded BeoVirus (I tend to upgrade/change my setup "infrequently"): BeoSystem 2500 (with blue speaker covers), BeoLink 5000, BeoSystem 7000 (complete; silver/black), BeoLink 7000, RedLine 60.2, BeoVox Penta, BeoVision MX4000 (black, motorized floor stand), BeoCord VX5000 (black), BeoSystem 4500 (complete), BeoCenter 9500, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoVision Avant (original, 28" AR, VHS, green), BeoCenter 2300, BeoVision 3-32 (grey speaker frame, AR, motorised cabinet), DVD1 (grey), BeoCord V8000 (grey), Beo4, BeoSound Ouverture (w/ floor cabinet stand), BeoVision Avant RF (grey, 32", AR, VHS), BeoSound 9000, BeoCenter AV5 (blue), BeoVision 1 (yellow, motorized floor stand), Beo1, BeoSound Century (yellow), BeoCenter 1 (blue, AR, motorized floor stand), BeoSound 1 (silver, floor stand), BeoVision Avant RF DVD (grey, 32", AR), BeoVision 7-32 MkI (AR, motorized floor stand), BeoLab 3 (black), BeoSound 2, BeoVision 10-40 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand).

  • 02-25-2010 6:45 AM In reply to

    • rae
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 10-27-2007
    • Posts 27
    • Gold Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    Hi KMA,

    Awfull pictures, absolutely unacceptable.

    I have a BV10 for three weeks now and also have noticed some clouding. It is not as severe as you have though (three grey areas, the milder spots as I see them in your screen) but still quite noticable in dim light and darker scenes (and in the black bars when watching dvd). The thing is that since the moment I noticed the spots I am always "looking" for them in black areas of the screen and in dark scenes. I told my dealer three days after delivery but haven't heard from him since. I willl pay him a visit this weekend. 

    KR,

    rae

  • 02-25-2010 8:09 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    Wow, seeing the pictures, that's really bad for a tv in this price rang. Unacceptable.

    There is a difference of what is acceptable in a 700$ generic tv and a high-end premium B&O tv.

    The bigger and thinner the screen, the more problems the lcd tech will have. The lcd technology is moving forward at great speed and at the same time is trying to increase production in order to lower prices. I guess it will not be uncommon to have problem panels.
    The fact that there are very few companies producing them is not helping. B&O is but a small client for a giant like samsung.

    I always found edge lit lcd screen to .... light the edges more than the middle of the panel. The bigger the screen, the more it becomes noticable imo.
    However, never patchy like on the photos....something went wrong somewhere. I am sure the panels are checked and calibrated and leave the factory in good condition. Either something happened in transport or installation or the panel has a defect because of bad application of the filter layer. Panels should never be put flat (which makes the screen warp under its own weight)  but kept right side up at all times. 

    I own two 50" plasma panels (kuro and panasonic) and have never had any problems with them. The blacks are deep and solid.Maybe because of that I notice the lcd difference more?

     

  • 02-25-2010 9:47 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    Hi KMA,

    I read this part of your post:

    "All the above may sound harsh: I just get quite irritated when I hear any claims that manufacturers say an obvious defect is somehow inherent to a technology, or a design thereof"

    and realised I may have misled you in my comment. I did not mean that the clouding fault is acceptable as clearly it is not - I would be furious if I had bought a B&O TV that displayed such an image. But non-Beoworld forum postings suggest there is an inherent design problem with the Samsung lightguide that can result in variable and unpredictable performance. These posts claim even replacement panels that appeared problem-free at first may develop clouding over time - I'm not sure that is a simple QC issue.

    Clouding may only affect a few panels but if it's your panel that is no consolation. And if there is one thing worse than a problem with a new TV it's a problem with a four year old TV that's out of warranty. You may be better off demanding a refund now then buying a new BV10 in a year's time, when hopefully any design/manufacturing problems will have been resolved.

  • 02-25-2010 9:51 AM In reply to

    • KMA
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-13-2007
    • Posts 101
    • Silver Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    cooldude:

    I always found edge lit lcd screen to .... light the edges more than the middle of the panel. The bigger the screen, the more it becomes noticable imo.
    However, never patchy like on the photos....something went wrong somewhere. I am sure the panels are checked and calibrated and leave the factory in good condition. Either something happened in transport or installation or the panel has a defect because of bad application of the filter layer. Panels should never be put flat (which makes the screen warp under its own weight)  but kept right side up at all times. 

    Hi Cooldude,

    I think the reason why my BeoVision 10 passed the check done during factory calibration is because the clouding is not visible at all for the first 10 - 20 minutes, when the TV is turned on. Then it becomes visible, and the longer the TV is on, the worse the clouding gets. It seems that the light guide or the LCD used in the panel reacts to the panel warming up. If I put the TV on Picture Mute for an hour or so (the backlight turns off), and then switch the picture back on, the clouding is again not visible for 10 - 20 minutes.

    The BeoVision 10 arrived on a pallet to my home, and was obviously transported in the upright position at all times. The packaging was in perfect condition. It was a two-man job carefully installing the TV on the floor stand (with a B&O installer), and it hasn't been moved since.

    Therefore I dare say that the fault probably originates from the Samsung factory (a bad production run). Alternatively something was done wrong at the assembly at B&O, perhaps given the enormous demand for BeoVision 10 and B&O speeding up production somehow. 

    I really wish that in the not too distant future the industry sets ISO standards for LCD backlights, as they have done for dead pixels years ago. It would make it much easier for B&O to buy panels that meet the most demanding ISO standard, instead of going by whatever grade the manufacturer gives a production run.

    I also think that B&O should add a dark-room step to the QC and assembly, to check the backlight, and give the TV an hour or so to warm up. This would show any heat related backlight issues that are not visible at startup.

    Being an early adopter of a new product has its downside. Hopefully all the feedback from us "beta testers" is valuable for B&O in perfecting the component selection and assembly.

     

    KMA

    Current setup: BeoVision 10-46 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand) with Apple TV 2 (FireCore), Sony BDP-S780, Mac Mini, BeoLab 11 (silver), Beo5, BeoSound 8 (red speaker covers). Accessories: A8 Earphones, wine bottle coasters.


    B&O product history, in chronological order since 1990, after the onset of the treaded BeoVirus (I tend to upgrade/change my setup "infrequently"): BeoSystem 2500 (with blue speaker covers), BeoLink 5000, BeoSystem 7000 (complete; silver/black), BeoLink 7000, RedLine 60.2, BeoVox Penta, BeoVision MX4000 (black, motorized floor stand), BeoCord VX5000 (black), BeoSystem 4500 (complete), BeoCenter 9500, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoVision Avant (original, 28" AR, VHS, green), BeoCenter 2300, BeoVision 3-32 (grey speaker frame, AR, motorised cabinet), DVD1 (grey), BeoCord V8000 (grey), Beo4, BeoSound Ouverture (w/ floor cabinet stand), BeoVision Avant RF (grey, 32", AR, VHS), BeoSound 9000, BeoCenter AV5 (blue), BeoVision 1 (yellow, motorized floor stand), Beo1, BeoSound Century (yellow), BeoCenter 1 (blue, AR, motorized floor stand), BeoSound 1 (silver, floor stand), BeoVision Avant RF DVD (grey, 32", AR), BeoVision 7-32 MkI (AR, motorized floor stand), BeoLab 3 (black), BeoSound 2, BeoVision 10-40 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand).

  • 02-25-2010 10:18 AM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    I don't think it's your dealers fault. However, if B&O did not conduct a burn-in testing period of all panels than it's their fault if the panels proved to be faulty as they are responsible for the end product.

    By the sound of it, it is probably heat related. Also when small amounts of static are present when the polarization layer is applied this uneven effect might happen as well. 

    http://revision3.com/hdnation/coenbros/wrinkly-lcd-screen .. might be interest to you.

  • 02-25-2010 12:25 PM In reply to

    • KMA
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-13-2007
    • Posts 101
    • Silver Member

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    cooldude:

    http://revision3.com/hdnation/coenbros/wrinkly-lcd-screen .. might be interest to you.

    Thanks for the link, Cooldude. It's a delicate thing manufacturing LCD panels, so many things can go wrong.

    And you're absolutely right, this whole thing is by no means my dealers fault.

    KMA

    Current setup: BeoVision 10-46 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand) with Apple TV 2 (FireCore), Sony BDP-S780, Mac Mini, BeoLab 11 (silver), Beo5, BeoSound 8 (red speaker covers). Accessories: A8 Earphones, wine bottle coasters.


    B&O product history, in chronological order since 1990, after the onset of the treaded BeoVirus (I tend to upgrade/change my setup "infrequently"): BeoSystem 2500 (with blue speaker covers), BeoLink 5000, BeoSystem 7000 (complete; silver/black), BeoLink 7000, RedLine 60.2, BeoVox Penta, BeoVision MX4000 (black, motorized floor stand), BeoCord VX5000 (black), BeoSystem 4500 (complete), BeoCenter 9500, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoVision Avant (original, 28" AR, VHS, green), BeoCenter 2300, BeoVision 3-32 (grey speaker frame, AR, motorised cabinet), DVD1 (grey), BeoCord V8000 (grey), Beo4, BeoSound Ouverture (w/ floor cabinet stand), BeoVision Avant RF (grey, 32", AR, VHS), BeoSound 9000, BeoCenter AV5 (blue), BeoVision 1 (yellow, motorized floor stand), Beo1, BeoSound Century (yellow), BeoCenter 1 (blue, AR, motorized floor stand), BeoSound 1 (silver, floor stand), BeoVision Avant RF DVD (grey, 32", AR), BeoVision 7-32 MkI (AR, motorized floor stand), BeoLab 3 (black), BeoSound 2, BeoVision 10-40 (grey speaker cover, AR, motorized stand).

  • 02-25-2010 3:44 PM In reply to

    Re: BeoVision 10 bad panels

    I agree it is not your dealer's fault, but he sold it to you and has the profit. I would actually expect that he would take it back and argue with B&O himself.

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