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Latest post 11-15-2011 10:13 AM by yachadm. 38 replies.
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  • 01-01-2011 5:39 PM In reply to

    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    They essentially use the same design of amplifier and sound the same to me!

    The CD in the 9500 can be fixed.

    Regards Graham

  • 01-02-2011 3:04 AM In reply to

    • jc
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    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    As I already replied earlier in this thead, they sound very different to me when played with Beovoxes (and so using the amps). Looking at the specifications at this site or at B&o's site there is a remarkable difference in frequency, so perhaps that's the difference I heard. So I doubt we are speaking of the same amplifiers here. Besides the 9300 seems to be a result of a sparing-operation from B&o at the time. So one can expect that more cheaper parts were used in the 9300 compared to the 9500, which can also influence sound. (read something like this in the workbench posted by our Israeli upgrade-expert)

    Positive remarks on behalve of the 9300: the doors slide open faster, the general response to a remote control is faster than with the 9500.

  • 01-02-2011 3:30 AM In reply to

    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    jc:

    As I already replied earlier in this thead, they sound very different to me when played with Beovoxes (and so using the amps). Looking at the specifications at this site or at B&o's site there is a remarkable difference in frequency, so perhaps that's the difference I heard. So I doubt we are speaking of the same amplifiers here. Besides the 9300 seems to be a result of a sparing-operation from B&o at the time. So one can expect that more cheaper parts were used in the 9300 compared to the 9500, which can also influence sound. (read something like this in the workbench posted by our Israeli upgrade-expert)

    Positive remarks on behalve of the 9300: the doors slide open faster, the general response to a remote control is faster than with the 9500.

    I do wish people would not go on about specifications.

    Having worked in the electronics industry,I can assure you that they are mostly written in the pub by the marketing team!!

     

    Regards Graham

  • 01-02-2011 4:21 AM In reply to

    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    Have owned two 9500s and used a 9300. I can't say that I noticed any difference in sound quality. Both are very ergonomically sound and the age difference is becoming less important - both will probably need servicing! I personally would get the 9500 for the two way capability. But I wouldn't criticise anyone who got a 9300 - just get a good one.

  • 01-19-2011 8:48 AM In reply to

    • yachadm
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    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    Hi Pattabhi

    This will give you a bit of insight on the 9300.

    http://www.condoraudio.com/wp-content/uploads/Projects/BeoCenter-8000-8500-9000-9300-9500-Receiver-Upgrade-Repair.pdf

    The output amplifiers are basically identical.

    The preamplifiers are very similar.

    The 9500 has the CDM2 with the exceptional TDA1541 DAC, while the 9300 has the CDM4 bitsteam technology, and later versions have the CDM12.

    The CDM12 laser is easy to replace, the CDM2 and CDM4 are not available (but they last much longer than the CDM12, if the Servo PCB's are maintained).

    The 9500 tape deck is superior to the 9300's.

    In short, the earlier versions of these are better and are capable of providing better sound, provided that you have a competent and knowledgeable technician to do the necessary upgrades and repairs.

    Menahem

     

    Learn from the mistakes of others - you'll not live long enough to make them all yourself!

  • 01-19-2011 3:28 PM In reply to

    • BeoTom
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    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    This is an interesting thread.  I bought one of the later 9300's in 2000 (with the matt finish and later CD mechanism), and it was probably my favorite B&O system I've owned.  Unfortunately, I've since sold it, but wish I had kept it!  My 5500 system may be a tie though, for my favorite system.  On the other hand, there aren't many B&O pieces I don't like!  The missing features of my 9300 (vs the 9500) were important to me though, and I wished it had had them.  

    A couple of comments and questions, regarding the 9300 vs. 9500.  One thing I didn't see mentioned, (sorry if I overlooked it), is that the 9500 has a built in phono pre-amp where the 9300 does not.  If you still listen to vinyl, this could be an important consideration. As for the tape deck in the 9500, it definitely is better specified and featured.  Feature-wise, the 9500 had Dolby C, the ability to program tape tracks, and the ability to set the recording level manually.  The 9300's cassette deck lacked these features. 

    A question for Menahem, or any of our other experts who know the answer to this: I've never completey understood which is supposed to be better, the TDA1541 DAC, or the bitstream technology ones.  Is there a difference in sound quality, and why the change to bitstream?  Was it for quality reasons, or cost reasons? Of course, this wasn't just for the 9300 though, as all B&O CD players switched to bitstream in the mid 90's.

    Thanks,

    Tommy

     

  • 01-20-2011 12:41 AM In reply to

    • yachadm
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    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    Hi Tommy,

    You're right of course, about the phono-preamp - an important lack in the 9300!

    I have restored tens of CD Players, and my ears (YMMV) prefer the TDA1541 units over everything else, including Arcam's pretty impressive dCs RingDAC (Yes, I've restored that one too, and the A-B comparison was great fun!).

    I must clarify that my own TDA1541 Philips CD650 is a completely restored unit (the circuit boards are absolutely identical to those in the BC9500 - B&O bought them as a package straight from Philips), and that's probably why it's so good.

    If you were to take a standard 30-year-old TDA1541 based CD, which has not had any attention, it would probably sound pokey. Which makes it easy to pick up cheaply a used CD like this, and harvest the insides. Most owners/sellers don't know the value of the interior components.

    Who knows why they went to bitstream? Cost, probably.

    But the truth is, at the time, nobody really appreciated how good that TDA1541 really was. And so it is with many icons - they only are really appreciated well after their normal lifetime.

    Menahem

     

    Learn from the mistakes of others - you'll not live long enough to make them all yourself!

  • 01-20-2011 11:25 AM In reply to

    • BeoTom
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    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    Hi Menahem,

    Thanks for sharing, that's interesting about the TDA1541!  I agree about icons, a lot of them do seem to be more appreciated after they're out of production, than when their still manufactured.

     

    Tommy

  • 01-20-2011 6:04 PM In reply to

    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    PhilLondon:
    Has the 9300 got an amplifier? I like the 9500 as it has got a connection for Powerlink as well as "normal" speakers. That makes it easier to resell. p.

    Yes -it has got an amplifier (as far as I know its a different one than in the 9500Unsure) -and it has Powerlink too.

    The inside of the 9300 is more like the ouverture (as mentioned earlier) +amplifier -while the inside of the 9500 is more like the 5500 in many ways.

    Back in those days, there was - at least - a bit of logic in the numbering. The BC9000 was the first -the upgraded version was called 9500 -and the "downgraded" was 9300 Wink   The 6500 was bigger and more powerful/advanced than the 4500 -and a cheaper version of this was called 3500 etc...
    Today the numbering is not very consistent: F.ex. the biggest loudspeaker is called BL5 -the next in range is BL9  -then BL3 and BL4. The former top-model was BL1 Confused Then of course, there is the "older" models such as BL4000, 6000 and 8000 (more logical, Mr. Spock LaughingWink.

  • 01-21-2011 4:56 AM In reply to

    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    I can only add that I noticed a difference in the sound between a BS3000 hooked upto BL4000 and a 9500 hooked up to the same speakers. The 9500 seemed to have more bass but was wooly, the BS3000 much clearer but bass not as good even when adjusting the controlls. That said I wish I had had my S60's then and tried them with the 9500. I had a 9300 brand new and that sounded the same to me anyway as the BS3000. I listen a lot to Vinyl so the 9500 provided a more elegant solution than the 9300 which meant having a seperate RIAA amp or pay over the odds for a B&O turntable with the RIAA Amp built in.

    I agree they are beautiful but take up a lot of space. Best thing is to try and listen to them before buying as what sounds good to one person can sound bad t another.

    Beovision Avant 32 RF, DVD1, Beovision 1, MX4002, Beound 3000, Beolab Penta MKII, Beovox Penta, Beolit 707, Beolink Passive, Beovox C30, Beocom 4, Beogram TX, 4 x Beo4, Form 1 & 2, Beocenter 7700, Beovox S65,

  • 11-15-2011 1:50 AM In reply to

    • camshaft
    • Top 150 Contributor
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    • Pennsylvania, USA
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    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    I'm sorry to rehash and old thread, but it felt more appropriate to ask here rather than start a new one.  I know people have said the matt coating/paint on the 3500 panels can easily be removed with a varnish remover, exposing the mirror finish of the 4500 series.  Can varnish remover be used on the newer 9300 systems to likewise expose the mirror finish seen on the earlier units?

    Thanks,

    Austin

    -Austin (resident audiophile skeptic)
  • 11-15-2011 4:52 AM In reply to

    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    No, they are a completely different material.

    The matt panels on the later 9300's are much harder wearing than the polished panels of the earlier models.

    The matt panels are no longer available/manufactured by B&O for spares stock. They could, of course, be replaced by a polished set, which are still available.

    Regards Graham

  • 11-15-2011 7:13 AM In reply to

    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    I was interested in the post about the 9500 and 9300 sounding different - this was my experience also - i bought a brand new 9300 in 2001 I think and fromone memory there was no different in sound between that and my BS3000 - howwever when I bought a 9500 for notalgia it didn't sound as clear as the 3000 and definetely slightly wooly - this was through the same BL4000 speakers - I don't know why it did as there's no reason but you could definetely tell a marked difference, although it could have been just my particular one.

    The advantage the 9500 had over the 9300 though, for me, was the phono input as it didn't need a pre-amp

    Beovision Avant 32 RF, DVD1, Beovision 1, MX4002, Beound 3000, Beolab Penta MKII, Beovox Penta, Beolit 707, Beolink Passive, Beovox C30, Beocom 4, Beogram TX, 4 x Beo4, Form 1 & 2, Beocenter 7700, Beovox S65,

  • 11-15-2011 10:13 AM In reply to

    • yachadm
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    Re: beocenter 9300 vs 9500

    The 9500's circuits are very tired by this age. All the capacitors need to be replaced, and opamps upgraded to OPA2134. After having done many of the 8500's and 9500's, I can assure you that the difference is like night and day. Use of the correct and specific capacitors (not any old Chinese junk from your neighborhood electronics store) will make a world of difference to the sound.

    Read up on this here

    How to Choose Replacement Capacitors and Resistors when Repairing and Restoring Vintage Stereo Equipment

    Menahem

    Learn from the mistakes of others - you'll not live long enough to make them all yourself!

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