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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 11-17-2009 9:25 AM by TerryM. 17 replies.
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  • 11-15-2009 11:26 AM

    BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    The new BV7-40 with BL 7-2 and internal Blu Ray disc player is tested in German VIDEO/HomeVision magazine issue 12/2009. BV7 in the top 4 LCD 40 inch for image quality.

    The results:
    75 points for sound. New sound rating for the testers, max scale 60 points changed to 75 points!

    349 points for image, (max is 415 points.) BV7 in the 40 inch top 4 now for image. (Samsung panels have ratings 349 points and one Samsung has 371 points.)

    User friendly 49 points (max 90)
    Equipment/specs 183 points. (max 270)
    Finish/quality 80 points (max 80)
    Overall 736 points (max 930)
    Price/value: Average rating

    The testers were impressed with the standard BV7 setting being very good! It amazed the testers not being able to change 15 settings they are used to with other makes to get a good result.

    Regards, Robert

  • 11-15-2009 3:43 PM In reply to

    • ed7
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    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    No one questioned the sound quality on the bv7 before imho,but some say it is much improved picture from earlier models, i have seen the latest bv7-40 i still not good enough

  • 11-15-2009 3:57 PM In reply to

    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    Was the sound evaluated wit just the 7.x speaker or were additional speakers (all 7.1 ?) included ?

    Do you know which speaker models were evaluated .....

    First B&O (1976) was a Beogram 1500 ... latest (2011) change has been to couple the BL11 with the BL6Ks *sounds superb*

  • 11-15-2009 5:28 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
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    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    -multimedia Robert-:

    The new BV7-40 with internal Blu Ray disc player is tested in German VIDEO/HomeVision magazine issue 12/2009. BV7 in the top 4 LCD 40 inch for image quality.

    The results:
    75 points for sound. New sound rating for the testers, max scale 60 points changed to 75 points!

    I assuming that they didn't test a DTS-HD Blu-ray? :)

  • 11-15-2009 5:31 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
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    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    ed7:

    No one questioned the sound quality on the bv7 before imho,but some say it is much improved picture from earlier models, i have seen the latest bv7-40 i still not good enough

    Completely wrong. The picture on the BV7-40 is *outstanding* as long as the source is outstanding. This is the key point most people seem to overlook. The problem with the BV7-40 MKIV is that it displays everything 'as is'. If the video source is poor, the BV7-40 will make it look even more poor, IMHO. People don't understand that watching a poor SD picture on your BV7-40 will just result in a poor picture. They somehow expect the picture to be 'enhanced'. Don't really know what they are expecting, in all fairness. Unrealistic.

    However, watch a well produced Blu-ray and it's difficult to better the picture.

    BTW, the audio is very much questionable on the BV7-40 MKIV and we've debated it a lot on there - B&O released a Blu-ray TV without support for DTS-HS, which is the audio format of choice for most modern Blu-ray discs.

  • 11-15-2009 6:58 PM In reply to

    • ed7
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    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    I have seen better picture on sd in "just a samsung" ,even the above german test  indicated .As for the speaker sound i owned 7-32 could not fault it at the time sound-wise,if b&o release the tv with-out dts-hs oh well what is new with b&o ,hdmi debate come to mind how long before they included it in their sets??!

  • 11-15-2009 9:17 PM In reply to

    • Beolab
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    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    349 points for image, (max is 415 points.) BV7 in the 40 inch top 4 now for image. Samsung panels have ratings 349 points.

     

    BV7-40 MkIV = Are built around a Samsung panel, but i don´t think the magazine was aware of that? ;)

    But the biggest difference is the video processor. Samsung uses their own one, but Bv7 are using Pixel Work processor clock witch is much more powerful to calculate and process data information= Less artefact's and juggies and show a much more natural picture with perfect Pal LCD coloring!

     

    Regards!

    BL8000 MkII Black

  • 11-16-2009 2:24 AM In reply to

    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    elephant:

    Was the sound evaluated wit just the 7.x speaker or were additional speakers (all 7.1 ?) included ?

    Do you know which speaker models were evaluated .....

     

    It was tested with BeoLab 7-2. Not with other BL speakers. A few years ago BV7 was tested with BL7-4. PM me if you are interested in those test results. I saved that test magazine for my archive.

  • 11-16-2009 2:59 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    Beolab:

    But the biggest difference is the video processor. Samsung uses their own one, but Bv7 are using Pixel Work processor clock witch is much more powerful to calculate and process data information= Less artefact's and juggies and show a much more natural picture with perfect Pal LCD coloring!

     

    I keep hearing this but do we know this to be a fact (especially since the BV3 is getting on now). Why would anyone elses DSP be necessarily worse than B&O's. In the olden days of needing extra analogue electronics to do the picture processing it was easy to understand why the Avant etc. had the best picture - nowadays when it is just processing 1's & 0's in an off the shelf DSP chip it isn't a given that it should be better.

    Which Samsung TV got the 371 point score?

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 11-16-2009 3:20 AM In reply to

    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    A trip to John Lewis will illustrate this for you!

    However I continue to be surprised how a small company like B & O can maintain such an obviously better picture...

    P

    Puncher:

    Beolab:

    But the biggest difference is the video processor. Samsung uses their own one, but Bv7 are using Pixel Work processor clock witch is much more powerful to calculate and process data information= Less artefact's and juggies and show a much more natural picture with perfect Pal LCD coloring!

     

    I keep hearing this but do we know this to be a fact (especially since the BV3 is getting on now). Why would anyone elses DSP be necessarily worse than B&O's. In the olden days of needing extra analogue electronics to do the picture processing it was easy to understand why the Avant etc. had the best picture - nowadays when it is just processing 1's & 0's in an off the shelf DSP chip it isn't a given that it should be better.

    Which Samsung TV got the 371 point score?

     

     

  • 11-16-2009 5:27 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    Peter2:

    A trip to John Lewis will illustrate this for you!

    However I continue to be surprised how a small company like B & O can maintain such an obviously better picture...

    P

    Have John Lewis started selling B&O???

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 11-16-2009 6:26 AM In reply to

    • Beolab
    • Top 150 Contributor
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    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    I keep hearing this but do we know this to be a fact (especially since the BV3 is getting on now). Why would anyone elses DSP be necessarily worse than B&O's. In the olden days of needing extra analogue electronics to do the picture processing it was easy to understand why the Avant etc. had the best picture - nowadays when it is just processing 1's & 0's in an off the shelf DSP chip it isn't a given that it should be better.

    Which Samsung TV got the 371 point score?  = The Samsung 9 series

     

    And in the service menu you will se only on BV/-40 MKIII and IV  in the picture menu a menu called P W= Pixel Works

     

    Its true.

     

    Regards

     

     

     

     

    BL8000 MkII Black

  • 11-16-2009 7:37 AM In reply to

    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    Puncher:

    I keep hearing this but do we know this to be a fact (especially since the BV3 is getting on now). Why would anyone elses DSP be necessarily worse than B&O's. In the olden days of needing extra analogue electronics to do the picture processing it was easy to understand why the Avant etc. had the best picture - nowadays when it is just processing 1's & 0's in an off the shelf DSP chip it isn't a given that it should be better.

    The BeoSystem 3 chassis features Pixelworks' ImageProcessor & Video Coprocessor. A few of the benefits can be seen here

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 11-16-2009 7:41 AM In reply to

    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    Puncher:

    Which Samsung TV got the 371 point score?

     

    Hi Puncher,

    The also 12/2009 issue tested Samsung 200Hz LCD LED panel UE 40 B 8090. (In Germany 2200 Euro)

    Is this promising for BV10?

    Regards, Robert

  • 11-16-2009 9:31 AM In reply to

    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    In order to quantify the merits of the BS3 processor,it would be interesting in comparing the PQ,particularly SD,of the BV7 against the Samsung TV combined with an external processor such as a Lumagen,or DVDO.

  • 11-16-2009 4:54 PM In reply to

    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    TerryM:

    In order to quantify the merits of the BS3 processor,it would be interesting in comparing the PQ,particularly SD,of the BV7 against the Samsung TV combined with an external processor such as a Lumagen,or DVDO.

    I'm guessing it would fall somewhere in the middle. I'm not even sure it would trend toward the PQ of the B&O. The reason I say it is that the B&O video engineers have developed a closed ecosystem of ICs & other hardware where internal factors are all known quantities. The PW chipsets are not the only part of the picture competencies. There are also the light sensors and, in the case of the plasmas, a camera that are feeding data back into the system to affect changes to the display on a frame by frame basis. An outboard processor like the Lumagen would yield a better result than the raw hardware, but can't interact with the display hardware as B&O does. 

    In more in-depth sales presentations I've explained it by comparing Mac to Windows in that Mac offers a better experience because they control more of the ecosystem than Windows & PC hardware mfgrs. It's not necessarily that they possess some supernatural ability to make superb hardware (though I might argue they do), it's that they're willing to take on more responsibility for the total experience.

    If Sony or Toshiba was interested in licensing all sorts of chips and circuits, investing in higher quality case materials, and producing products in small batches by skilled and well paid labor, we'd have some competition. But basically we've slowly evolved into the only TV maker doing things like this. To see innovation like this in video you need to look at projectors and not at TVs. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 11-17-2009 4:02 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    TripEnglish:

    The reason I say it is that the B&O video engineers have developed a closed ecosystem of ICs & other hardware where internal factors are all known quantities. The PW chipsets are not the only part of the picture competencies.

    Could you explain further.

     

    (btw - I thought the camera on the BV9 only appeared periodically to recalibrate the panel to compensate for the effects of ageing? Also some(most)? of the other manufacturers include ambient light compensation in at least some of their sets).

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 11-17-2009 9:25 AM In reply to

    Re: BV7 Blu Ray tested in German magazine, sound sets new test standards

    TripEnglish:

    TerryM:

    In order to quantify the merits of the BS3 processor,it would be interesting in comparing the PQ,particularly SD,of the BV7 against the Samsung TV combined with an external processor such as a Lumagen,or DVDO.

    I'm guessing it would fall somewhere in the middle. I'm not even sure it would trend toward the PQ of the B&O. The reason I say it is that the B&O video engineers have developed a closed ecosystem of ICs & other hardware where internal factors are all known quantities. The PW chipsets are not the only part of the picture competencies. There are also the light sensors and, in the case of the plasmas, a camera that are feeding data back into the system to affect changes to the display on a frame by frame basis. An outboard processor like the Lumagen would yield a better result than the raw hardware, but can't interact with the display hardware as B&O does. 

     

    My observation was prompted by the fact that,at face value,the German Magazine test rated the PQ of the Samsung TVs higher than that of the BV7.

    I find this surprising given the fact that Samsung TVs are not particularly noted for the quality of their processor's performance with SD,particularly Freeview,sources

    I seem to remember someone posting that they felt the SD performance of the BV7Mk4 was inferior to that of the Mk3.

    One wonders if the B & O 'closed ecosystem' solution,by it's very nature,leads to compromise.

    With an external processor one is able to adjust,and store,settings on an individual input basis,and thus the PQ of the source can be optimised in relation to the connected TV/Monitor.

    Does a BS3 permit such a facility either within the User,or Service,menu?

     

     

     

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