Hello everyone! Just added a Beogram 8000 to my stable of Beograms. Unfortunately, like many of these, this one has some issues. Here are the ones I've noticed thus far:

1. As often happens, the foam tape that once held the tonearm cover panel to it's hinge, as well as the platter surround piece, have come loose. What is the best way to replace this stuff?

2. The tonearm seems to be way too sensitive to vibrations than it should be. My Beogram TX 2 usually sits in the same place the 8000 is setup now; the TX 2 barely skips at all, while the 8000 skips all over the place with the slightest vibration. What might the cause be? I undid the three transit screws under the platter; might I have missed one somewhere else?

3. The arm gets hung up around the 7" part. When I used the arm movement buttons across an LP, the arm would get as far as the 7" part, then seem to lift slightly, and go no further. When I tried to cue up a 45, the arm got as far as the edge, stopped, and now I can't get it back to the start position. What could it be getting stuck on?

4. The stop button seems to be nonfunctional. When pressed, the arm raises, but that's it. I have to use the arm movement buttons to return the arm to the rest position. Any idea what would cause this not to work?

5. The sensor arm is crooked. What's the best way to re-align it? Also, the cover over the arm assembly is loose. What might the cause of this be, more of the foam tape?

Anyway, thanks in advance!

-Adam

Welcome to Beoworld!

It looks like you got a classic example of a Beogram 8000 with the typical needs for a cap kit otherwise it will be difficult to get it back in order. 

You need to get in touch with member Dillen here. He knows the Beogram 8000 inside out and have fixed many cases like this.

Welcome to Beoworld !

I'm afraid a cap kit won't solve these problems, or at least not all of them:

1, 2-comp epoxy and some metal washers or similar of suitable thickness to shim up
the lid to the correct height.

2, Have you checked the tracking force ?

3, Clean and lubricate the threaded carriage shaft. Use a good silicone grease
of the non-hardening type or let it run dry. Replace the servo motor belt.
Alternatively, check if something is blocking the carriage. It's not unusual
to find old cartridges, a needle brush or something else down there.

4, Maybe the cap kit will fix this fault. If the capacitors hasn't already
been replaced, I strongly suggest doing so. Check also for cracked solder joints
at the edge connectors and in the power supply and rectifier areas. Recently, I've
also seen a couple of cracked joints inside the processor casing (careful
when opening and preferably only do so in a static shielded area since the slightest
static electricity may kill the processor).

5, The black plastic cover is held by a couple of tabs. It should click right back on.
If not, some of the tabs are probably broken off.
Crooked sensor arm ? - Probably from un-prof. servicing. It happens if you don't
know how to open the Beogram to service position and can be hard to correct.
It all depends on which part(s) are broken or bent.

And finally 6, Check the tachodisc; If it's of the old photographic type, it will be falling apart and
I suggest replacing with a metal type. A nice repro part is available for this.

Martin

Thanks for the replies!

Dillen:

I'm afraid a cap kit won't solve these problems, or at least not all of them:

Yeah, I figured it wouldn't be a quick fix. It seems like very few of the turntables I've worked on are. As always, the seller at the flea market insisted that the unit was in perfectly working condition... 

Dillen:

1, 2-comp epoxy and some metal washers or similar of suitable thickness to shim up the lid to the correct height.

Would modern 3M Scotch-type foam tape be suitable to use, or should I just stay away from the stuff altogether? Also, how is the tonearm cover panel lid meant to be lifted? I have yet to get the one on mine to raise, and the hinge section looks like it might be a bit askew.

Dillen:

2, Have you checked the tracking force ?

I have a feeling that might be part of the fault. What would be the best way to check this? I know the TX 2 can be told to drop the arm for this purpose by holding down the CUE button for several seconds, but I'm not sure how to do the same with the 8000. Before I can do this, I still need to get the arm assembly back from where it is now, stuck over the 7" position. Do you think it would be safe to use the manual arm moving control for this purpose? Also, once I figure this out, how do I change the tracking force? I know my TX 2 has a slider under the tonearm for that purpose, but I have yet to locate the one under the 8000's tonearm. 

Dillen:

3, Clean and lubricate the threaded carriage shaft. Use a good silicone grease
of the non-hardening type or let it run dry. Replace the servo motor belt.
Alternatively, check if something is blocking the carriage. It's not unusual
to find old cartridges, a needle brush or something else down there.

I seem to recall reading on this forum about a similar fault occurring with the 4000 series (I think), perhaps involving whatever triggers the switchover to 45RPM at the 7" setting, but can't find it at the moment. Of course, I'm not sure how close the 8000's mechanism is to that of the 4000 series, so I might be barking up the wrong tree.

Dillen:

4, Maybe the cap kit will fix this fault. If the capacitors hasn't already
been replaced, I strongly suggest doing so. Check also for cracked solder joints
at the edge connectors and in the power supply and rectifier areas. Recently, I've
also seen a couple of cracked joints inside the processor casing (careful
when opening and preferably only do so in a static shielded area since the slightest
static electricity may kill the processor).

No idea what's been done with the caps, since I have yet to open it. Is there somewhere I should check for voltage and/or logic when pressing the stop button?

Dillen:

5, The black plastic cover is held by a couple of tabs. It should click right back on.
If not, some of the tabs are probably broken off.
Crooked sensor arm ? - Probably from un-prof. servicing. It happens if you don't
know how to open the Beogram to service position and can be hard to correct.
It all depends on which part(s) are broken or bent.

At this point, I think trying to get that cover back on depends on finding what it's proper position should be; have yet to try forcing it to snap back onto the bottom section, lest it should snap itself. What's the best way to remove this cover to try and re-align the sensor arm? It seems to be blocked from coming off entirely by part of the top cover.

Dillen:

And finally 6, Check the tachodisc; If it's of the old photographic type, it will be falling apart and
I suggest replacing with a metal type. A nice repro part is available for this.

The speed seems to be dead-on, as far as I can tell. Nevertheless, I will check the tachodisc once I open it up.

Again, thanks for all of the advice thus far! I'll have to take some pictures of the unit for reference.

-Adam

1, I have tried all kinds of tape and none worked for me. It you can get
some that works to your satisfaction, then fine.

2, The tracking force slider sits at the right side of the tonearm, a couple
of centimeters from where it enters the plastic housing.

3, It's nothing like the 4000 series. The 8000 has no switch, it counts opto
pulses and any faults here usually give other symptoms.

4, No. If the caps are still the original ones, they should be replaced. If one
is bad, the others will most likely be bad or at least marginal. It's very hard
to give an exact point for measuring to tell if the caps are bad or not since
they can fail in countless different patterns.
Sounds most of all like the carriage is blocked and/or the belt slipping.
Can you tell if the servo motor runs or not when you press stop while playing ?

5, A photo will help us help you.

Martin

Here are some pictures of the unit.

First, the top, as it sits now. I have placed the tonearm cover panel on top of it's hinge, loose.

Now, a close-up of the two arms. Definitely some sort of bend to the sensor arm.

Next, the tonearm area, with the cover removed. Note the orientation of the cover hinge.

Finally, another picture of the top, this time with the main cover lowered, the tonearm area cover removed, and the motor running. The tonearm assembly currently refuses to move at all via the control buttons, so it just sits there.

Anyway, hope these help somewhat. If another view would help, please let me know.

-Adam

Open the hinge piece and remove the long plastic cover (yellow X), it's held
by little tabs and lifts right up and off.

Then you can lift off the cover marked with a red X. It's also held by tabs,
one each side but usually a gentle wiggle will ease it up and off.

Then you can inspect that area to see if something is broken or bent.

To check if the servo motor runs and/or the belt is slipping, rotate the
large plastic screw with something suitable and lift off the black metal
cover it sits in. It's the metal cover that also holds the round built-in
needle brush, the green X points to it.

I don't see the problem with the aluminium cover hinge plastic piece.
Looks fine to me.

Martin

Thanks so much for the instructions! When it comes to stuff like this, I'm usually too cautious with removing plastic parts, in the fear that I might remove one the wrong way (or one secured by something else), breaking something that's stayed intact for several decades through the sheer fact that it hasn't been messed with. I managed to remove the pieces you mentioned (had to lift the tonearm section cover hinge for the yellow 'x' part; was a bit stiff, but it went up just fine). The good news is, none of the tabs on either that cover or the tonearm assembly cover seem to have broken. I removed the green 'X' cover without difficulty, and put my finger on the servo motor part I could see, and it was rotating constantly. I assume it's trying to get the arm back to the rest position, but whatever the arm assembly is hung up on is preventing that. Still unable to see what the arm could be getting stuck on.

Anyway, the pics. I apologize for the crudeness of these images; if they don't help, I'll make another attempt at them. The dust cover got in my way, so I shot one pic from underneath, and one from above. Here they are:

Again, hope these help at all.

-Adam

Nothing looks broken.
I would feel very tempted to try to push the sensor arm slightly (and gently)
towards the left until parallel with the tonearm.
The sensor arm has no tracking job that can be spoiled, it merely senses
the presence of a record but it looks wrong in that angle.

I like your hesitation with regards to taking things apart.
If something is blocking the carriage, or the threaded shaft will need cleaning etc.
you will have to open the Beogram into service position, which is not
very easy and not very obvious how to. It's described in the
service manual though it could have been done better.
I suggest getting the service manual, it's available from our main website
for silver and gold members (well worth the small fee).

Lift off the platter and black subplatter and check if the tachodisc is a photographic
type or metal. Note that the subplatter has three little tabs protruding that
grips into similar indentations in the spindle hub.

Martin

Should I unscrew those two screws near the back? According to the service manual I have, you loosen both screws, then tighten the bottom screw gently, move the sensor arm until it's 90º to the rod, then tighten both screws. Is there a way to turn these screws without removing the lid?

Believe me, I've had more than enough experience with things which have been taken apart the wrong way, and *SNAP!*. Of course, plastic often becomes brittle enough to do that on it's own, even with proper disassembly, but that hasn't been the case with this unit thus far. *KNOCK ON WOOD*

I actually do have a copy of the service manual, attained from another site (it covers the 8000, 6006, and 8002). Not sure how complete it is, but it lists procedures for straightening the sensor arm, opening the case to the service position, and various others. The main question I have about the opening procedure is, how do I lift the hooks for the suspension off of the suspension springs? It doesn't seem entirely straightforward to me, at least without re-doing the transit screws. Of course, I first have to figure out how to get the arm back to it's home position without breaking anything...

I removed the subplatter, and as best I can tell, the tachodisc is indeed metal. I shined light on it, and could see the stainless-steel 'grain'. I figured that, if it'd been the plastic/celluloid type, it probably would've disintegrated years ago anyway (unless some of them disintegrate more slowly than others). 

-Adam

You can use the service manual for guidance but watch out for the sensor arm when
opening and closing the deck. That's a pitfall and where most people fail.

You will have to wheel home the carriage manually by rotating the belt pulley
or the threaded shaft itself by hand.

The C-clips will have to be lifted out of the eyes in the leaf springs.
Grab one at a time with pliers and lift it up and out of the eye and
allow the subchassis to land gently on the Beogram bottom plate (inside the Beogram).

Martin

Well, I decided to give it one more try. Re-fitted the subplatter, and applied power. Miraculously, the arm mechanism began moving back to the rest position!  As you correctly surmised (of course), the culprit was indeed something underneath the arm mechanism: a MMC20-type cartridge stylus guard. The arm mechanism now moves properly to all parts of the record, and the Stop button even works properly now. I can kinda see why they switched to the integrated stylus guards with the MMC1-5s...

However, this still leaves the issue of the tracking. I still can't locate the tracking weight control; I can feel the groove underneath the tonearm, but there's no slider to be found, as there is with my TX 2. I seriously hope this doesn't render my unit as a bench queen.

And finally, the question I've kept forgetting to ask: what is the best way to remove the remnants of the old foam tape? Also, is there a specific way to lower the tonearm cover hinge? It seems to have latched in place when I opened it up all the way, and I don't want to force it.

Once again, thanks!

-Adam

Great job !

So there was something down there... 

Can you see the scale for the tracking force slider at the right side of the tonearm ?
Maybe the slider is to be found somewhere inside the Beogram too.

The tonearm cover hinge will need a bit of "controlled" force to persuade it to pass
its locking position and close, that's normal.
of course, you should put most of the force at the point where the damper sits rather than
near the ends or edges.
The foam remains will have to be removed manually. I like to use a spatula to shift most
of the soft remains.
Sometimes the remaining "carrier strip" from the foam can be rubbed off using
your fingers. Then sand down the upper surface using 80 grit or similar and
also the backside of the aluminum cover plate where the hinge part will have
to be glued on to give the glue something to adhere to.

The MMC1-5s ... sees their whole front end plastic part coming off instead and they
won't fit down there either.

Martin

I see the scale there, just no slider. If the slider is within the chassis, I have yet to see it. The unit is currently fitted with a MMC20E, and I know that this model came fitted with a MMC20CL (probably whose stylus guard was jamming the arm carriage), so I'm guessing it's tracking far too lightly for the lower-end cartridge. Again, I hope this doesn't turn my neat Beogram 8000 into a parts machine.

I read something in the service manual about the weight at the back of the main arm being used to balance it. Might it be possible to use it to set the weight? As you could see, it's currently sitting near the back of the arm assembly, which I assume means it's set very light. Could sliding it forward while resting the stylus on a Shure SFG-2 allow me to set the weight without the slider being in place? What is the correct tracking weight of the MMC20E, anyway?

I got the hinge back down, as you said. The hinge definitely seems fairly stiff; is there a way to oil it without taking the whole thing apart? Also, I can see that the foam is gonna be difficult to remove without getting it all over the innards...

I know what you mean about those MMC1-5 stylus guards! I had the one on my TX 2's MMC5 come off, so I had to carefully epoxy it back on. It has yet to come back off, and I've been very careful with it since then. Definitely can't see that part jamming anything like the MMC20-style cover, but you never know...

-Adam

Don't touch the counterweight.
Instead, try to locate the missing parts, it will not be impossible.

And don't lubricate the cover hinge. It's supposed to dampen and lower
the heavy alu lid slowly.

Martin

What should I be looking for? I'd never seen a Beogram 8000-series model in the flesh until I acquired mine, so I don't know what this slider looks like. What might be a source for a replacement, if mine is truly missing? Also, how can I be sure that the old one didn't break off, making replacement difficult, if not impossible? I'm a bit worried about this, since it's not really a major part, yet critical to operation. Also, I've never heard of anything like this happening on one of these models, though I don't have any previous experience with them.

Understood on the hinge. It just seemed a bit stiff to me, and wasn't sure how it was supposed to feel. Should be interesting to see how it moves once that cover is back in place.

-Adam

The slider is clear plastic, not unlike the one on the TX2.
I have a nice little collection of good used parts, mainly from scrapped machines,
and I know that other people here have some too.

I'm not sure if I have this part myself, there has been a rush on tangential parts in recent years, but I'm sure
that someone else will be able to find a tracking force slider and help you out. The Beogram 6006 and 8000 share this part.

If something else is missing or broken will have to be checked when the slider is found. It has probably just clip'ed off.

Martin

Thanks. I'll have to open it up, and take a look around inside the chassis to see if it ended up in there. If you can find a source for a replacement, in case something did break or go missing, I would very much appreciate it.

One question I still have is, is there a way to check the tracking force? I tried the old-fashioned method of moving the arm to the proper spot and then disconnecting power, but as I pulled the plug, I heard a click, and the arm lifted itself off of the record (should've guessed that B&O would be thoughtful like that). I know that, with the TX 2, you hold down the CUE button for three seconds, and the arm will drop onto whatever's below it while in the rest position. Is there a button trick like that for the 8000?

Once again, thanks!

-Adam

A standard tracking force gauge. B&O designed one that came with some new cartridges at some point.
Take off the platter. This leaves a "black surface" for the sensor arm to allow lowering of the needle.

Press start and land the needle on the gauge. Careful, of course, to keep the carriage
from reacting and moving.
Use a small block of wood or something similar to bring the gauge to a suitable height.

Martin

The only tracking gauge I have at the moment is a Shure SFG-2, meant to be placed in the middle of the platter, on top of a record, when it is used. That is why I asked about the possibility of there being a button trick. In any case, I removed the main platter, placed the SFG-2 on the space it'd once occupied, fitted the cartridge with a stylus guard, and pressed play. The arm dropped down onto the gauge, and using the SFG-2's slider, I was able to tell that, at the absolute most, it's currently tracking at a half-gram. Yikes!

Anyway, I opened up the unit to the servicing position, as indicated in the service manual. Sadly, no sign of the slider. Unless it somehow managed to get wedged between the circuit board and the top of the right side of the case, or under the black plate which the center hub and such sit on, I'd have to say that it's entirely missing. Not sure where else it could be hiding.

-Adam

Half a gram is definitely too little and you shouldn't measure the tracking
force with the needle guard mounted, that could easily be that half gram.

You have to get the right slider part(s).
I will have a look in the dungeons but, as said, I'm not sure if I can find
any. Maybe someone with a scrapped machine can help here ?

Martin

You are indeed correct; I removed the needle guard, aligned the stylus to land on the SFG-2, and it doesn't even register. I wonder how the seller could've possibly surmised that it worked at all, unless he hadn't run a record on it since the slider fell off (entirely possible; he admitted he'd sold his LP collection off some time ago). I still wonder about the counterweight at the rear of the arm; to me, it looks as if it's positioned too far towards the rear of the tonearm assembly to be doing much good. The diagram in the manual shows it about 1/3 of the way down it's track. Might it have ended up misadjusted at some point, perhaps after the slider fell off?

Anyway, with any luck, you or someone else on here might be able to find a spare slider part. I definitely don't want something like this rendering this beautiful machine unusable. I can't wait for the moment I correctly adjust the tracking weight, put a good LP on the platter, and get a taste of what this beauty can really do.

-Adam

Another question: Is the unit supposed to switch the speed to 45RPM when cueing up a 10" record? Figured it would've stayed set to 33RPM until it reached the 7" point, but it started playing the EP at 45RPM. Just wondering.

-Adam

Most resourceful! Definitely worth trying to slide the piece forward - it seems to be set to 0.5g at present. I would suggest trying and would also consider something like a small piece of Blu-Tak under the arm holding the slide in place and also adding a small bit of the weight lost. You will clearly need to use your weight scale to get the tracking force correct.