ChrDH:

Gatex:

The Beosound 5 will be this Samsung http://www.mediasklep.pl/catalog/images/mix/mix49554.jpg repacked as BnO design.

 

After we have seen the BS6, this really is scarry... Suppose B&O really pulled something like that off, like they did with the beocenter 2200. Man, are we going to be cross..

I hope the BS5 will be high end, something that can justify the price tag.

Chr.

I have a feeling this one will be something special, it certainly sounds that way, and with a very high price tag to be expected B&O will hopefully have a great deal of fantastic new technologies to play with.

I just hope the designer(s) of the cripe BS6 will be sticking far out of the way with this project! Better still if they go to work for Bose, I'm sure they would love to have them on board.

Greg:

Actually I'm pretty sure transparent (micro-perforated) aluminium already exists in the market - it's used on the instrument panel of Aston Martin's DB9 and (I think) V8.  Someone can probably confirm or correct this?

 Apple also uses it on the MacBook Pro, the led on the side of the webcam show through the aluminium.

Ph.

eduard:

Henry:

benjnz:

Oh well, not that I've got enough money for a system like that, then again I'm more than happy with my ever conservative BS3200, If it's taking it's design ques from their new direction (like the BV8) I think it'll just go to confirm that well known saying "more money than sense", or taste!

Most of my friends say I have more money than sense when they see my Ouverture or even BS1. It's a personal thing I guess which is why I don't tell me friends how much I paid for my B&O, if they're so interested, then they can go to the shop, but I have to say that this transparent aluminium that's touch sensitive and with some sort of backlight sounds fantastic! Nice to see B&O are taking new designs seriously again.

Most of mine friends do not understand the pasion of B&O, can not tell them... it is a feeling....... but I have one thing that not many of you have, my wife loves B&O as much as I do.........(ooooooohhhhhhh I love here!!!

 Well Ed, I even go a step further. I have not only a wife who loves B&O but also who sell's B&O

 Life is so good...... and I love my wife.

 

 

If my memories still works as it should be I remeber that on the old forum Roger gave some clues about this high-end system. Roger, were are you..........

eduard:

Ohhhhhhhhhh you beat me!!!!!! well you are a lucky guy!!!!!!!

 

Yes, I consider myself a very lucky guy....... (by the way, very quick reply)

My dealer suggested it won't happen - no call for high end sources now, when everyone is more interested in mp3 recorded music.

Ah, your dealer is repeating what I consider a B&O fallacy: that the public embracing mp3 necessarily means a move to low quality, and not high-end.

The high-end market, worldwide, is increasing - not falling. However, if you look at the music market overall, then the sales of CDs are falling, as people opt for buying mp3 music, or illegally downloading/sharing the same.

But vinyl sales are increasing at a faster percentage than the rise in iPod sales, for instance; and the market for vinyl players is increasing, as well. I suspect that people buy them just as much for decorative effect as for actually using them -- though most serious popular and jazz music is available on vinyl releases. (And if you get the recent YES Fragile remix, just out on vinyl, you'll understand the resurgence in that market).
(Adding: As I was writing this, the vinyl store I use sent me an e-mail with their latest releases: Jeff Buckley, Traveling Wilburys, Feist, Good Shoes, Wilco, Modest Mouse - plus a range of classics from Nirvana through to Captain Beyond and Blodwyn Pig.)
 

But this still misses the overall point: which is that people are becoming increasingly aware of what they are missing out on with compressed mp3 music. Sales of high-end audio systems are rising; people are looking for full resolution downloads, including 24 bit 192kHz versions of their music; sales of high-end loudspeakers are rising.

AND -- if you take away portions of the market that are not of interest as a high-end market (those who can't afford the equipment, very young music buyers, etc) then you're left with a smaller overall segment of the market where these trends are very clear.

In China, for instance, it's now fashionable to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a good audio system - with top notch resolution.

I would say there is a very strong need for a high-end, excellent resolution audio source in the B&O range, as none of the existing players are capable of challenging the capabilities of the acoustic lens speakers. (With the exception of BeoSound 9000 and BeoCenter 2, whose DIG OUT can be connected directly to the DIG IN on BL5, thus ensuring faithful reproduction of the original through those speakers).

 

 

May be it wont happen, maybe it will. But to suggest that it wont because of the low-end MP3 market is a bit like saying not to build the BV9 because there people want cheaper TV's.

The BV9 is an incredibly small volume, high value TV - even for B&O. I think that could sell 6 a week of a high-end BS5 music master - like they presumed for the BV5 and BL5, they would make it and make money on it.

...and like the BL5, IF they get it absolutely right, they may blow the market away again. 

I think they HAVE to go this way. They cant keep on rebadging Jap MP3 players etc...at 20 times the price unless they just want to be a loudspeaker producer from now-on.

10%

 

As someone who runs an audiobusiness in China I think there is a balance to be made here.

Firstly, sales of up market hifi are rising in the Asia but falling in UK, most of Europe and the USA. Not many high end audio companies are making any money either. Ive recently been involved with a very high end brand and despite reasonable sales they cannot make a profit. Also the high end halls in the major electronics shows have fewer exhibitors as the ,market converges from audio and video into a mainstream video market. Any hifi brand that dosenot have at least some video offering will not survive near term.

I dont think though that this makes any difference as the individuals that buy high end audio will certainly NOT buy B&O- they just wont! its considered to lifestyle and nothing will change that perception.

As to individuals feeling that they are 'missing out' on something with MP3 I dont think that the buying public 25/40 who are the main buyers in this segment feel that. Look at SACD  a far superior product in every way and yet it never took off. Blue ray is another example; mainly because of the lack of material- its not being supported.

The fact is the market has moved ahead of itself and it is difficult to convince individuals that the latest high end product is worthy of the price because the differences get less with each innovation.

 

B& O are doing ok because the franchise system means that new products are forced onto dealers and yet many dealers report little or no audio sales and only speakers and BV7 has saved the day for them and im not sure after taking into account losses when selling outdated BVs for example that even the latest offerings are that profiltable for them.

 

There was inititial speculation that the price for such a system from B&O would be about 5K I feel its a mistake to do this for B&O. They are already moving into a pricng spectrum that defies reality in the market

Amen.

@355f

Interesting input. Yes, the market is moving in different ways. In the "west" we are still hankering to the convenience of having our music in our pockets, but awareness IS growing of what one is missing out on. Yet there are way too many high-end suppliers of audio equipment, and competition is fierce. I got my LAVRY DA10 dac for under USD 1000, which is a ridiculously low price for what it does; the Benchmark a little above that.

Nonetheless, I'm convinced that within the realm of the B&O Experience there is room for outstanding reproduction of both sound and image. Curiously, we are heading for better and better image resolution, while accepting lousy sound resolution. I was in a recording studio the other day and got to evaluate 24 bit/high sample rate versus standard Redbook CD (16 bit/44.1kHz). Big difference. And the step down to regular iTunes download is huge.

That gap is being discovered by listeners, and my prediction is that the convenience considered primary until now will be replaced by a hankering for quality.
Still, is there money to be made off this?
That remains to be seen, right?

A friend just bought the latest NAGRA CD player, at a price that would have gotten him a pair of BL5s and change. He's super happy, and has me going "hmmmm" ...

 

Well that all sounds very good. these kind of products are what we refer to in the trade as being 'pure theatre' in other words not in the real commercial world and these companies do not make money. Back to B&O and your comments of outstanding reproduction of sound and image. I love B&O but lets face it take off the rose tinted spectacles B&O is not either of these things. They make a reasonable product in a very nice case for a LARGE price and for this money you can buy serious audio!

 

In vision for example you have 720p panels now in B&O and they are very good and yet the customer now wants 1080 sup duper hi def or ultra def or whatever the marketing men choose to call it. And yet in studies carried out by the BBC on panels of 50in or less there was not one consumer who could- with consistency tell the difference.

 

Give that the pansonic 1080 panle is double the cost- will the average buyer spend £3000 more to buy it?? answer is no- some will of course. However they will buy it when the price premium drops to that of a small addiiton to the basic panel. Hence the reason why the electroics business is in terminal decline.

 

B&O try and gain out of this by being a lifestyle aspirant brand and thus far it has worked ( they make a profit) but for the future im not sure high end extravagence will work.

Decent debate at last!

355F. Thanks for your insider knowledge. However, with that knowledge aside, could I challenge one or two things?

1. The BL5 Angle. This is the most remarkable piece of B&O kit to come out of Struer for years. Many B&O enthusiasts have said “if only there was a source to do them justice….I would buy tomorrow”. Whether they do or don’t is another thing but with the stir of the BL5’s, the expectation has been truly raised.

1. The Die-Hard Audiophile (ABBO – anything but B&O). I think there are a few out there who have heard the BL5 and have been stunned by their shattered perception of “all form and no function” and would also consider a high-end B&O source if it did raise the bar.

1. The Middle-Man.  The middle-man is a chap who does not know where to go. He is a sheep, a follower with limited disposable income. He likes B&O for its good looks, ease of use and can just about afford a system. However, all his mates will laugh at him because he bought B&O. So he goes down the road of buying separates, tweekable Hi-Fi. Unfortunately, all his mates disagree with the combination because some are Linn nuts, some are Nain etc..etc… and then laugh at him. So middle-man would be happy with a BS5/BL5 combination because he would know he’s got the best of both worlds and his mates would know it too. (and maybe stop laugh at him and call him their best mate).

As you alluded to in your dialogue, maybe, just maybe the reason B&O audio sales are drying up is because of the high price/poor quality ratio the BS2/3 and 4 offer. May as well by an iPod and docking station.

Personally, I would relish a high-end player from B&O to drive my speakers. To me the ideal product would be a world-beater

1. It is housed in a HDR2 shell. No LED’s, no shwoosh doors or sensi-touch pads. Just a simple hidden CD tray ala BG7000 etc.. Keep the cost down by doing away with the fancy mechanicals and putting the money on the internals. Remote operation only, TV or Beo5 based feed-back.

1. The CD mechanism is of the best type available on the market. (Home made preferable).

1. The DAC’s and electronics are world-class / revolutionary.

1. It contains the usual connections of ML/PL SPDIF etc…..

1. It contains a HARD-DRIVE so that those who wanna play compressed music can do but at the same time, allow the adults amongst us listen to quality music now and again. (It will also allow us to record the highest quality music at whatever bit-rate too – No. PC white-noise on the recording etc….).  

Personally, I think it would sell in reasonable numbers.

10%

whilst I agree the BL5 is a great speaker I dont think this has resulted in many 'over the border' sales to audiophiles. They dislike the fixed equalisation and many other aspects of the speakers performance. Little point raising all the demerits here but the facts are one will neevr convince this type of person regarding B&O. I know most of the people in the trade for example and they would NEVER consider B&O.

 

In relation to the 'middleman scenario mentioned- the problem is that the sales to in this sector are getting less and less. Its all moving toward integrated screens with sd cards ect. the traditional audio market is dying.

As to a high end player the idea mentioned is interesting.All housed in an HDR2 type case?? is this what a B&O buyer will aspire to? sounds like one is describing a meridian player or similar. This is not the B&O ethos???

 

I buy it because it looks the best in style so it LOOKS the part. I would not buy a product in an HDR2 box but thats me!

I would like to re-introduce this thread about the Beosound 5 that will be presented next year (2008).

Well I have described the design of BS 5 in another thread. A large screen, like a tablet PC, with a alu wheel in the right side. You can navigate through your album cover with this wheel. Your albums are shown in the right side of the screen about same size as covers on Serenata. Press go and the album you wish to hear will be shown to you in a bigger size. It comes with a black box like the one we know from BC2.

Dear All:

I'm sorry but if all your worried about when spending 40 grand on your sound system is your friends laughing at you, you must be sad and desperate. An unlikely scenario.

I just hope this new source does not underwhelm and show that in fact the BL5 limits were already reached with a simple digital out from a BeoCentre 2.

Gatex:

The Beosound 5 will be this Samsung http://www.mediasklep.pl/catalog/images/mix/mix49554.jpg repacked as BnO design.

 

That has got to be the most ridiculous thing anyone on here has ever said. 

 

You have made a very good point here David.

The DA Converters are onboard with the BL5's. Theoretically you should be able to run them off anything with a digital output. If the Mech's in the BS9000 or BC2 are even half decent i would expect that you will hear no difference with a so called high end source.

If you have connected through PL sockets then sure, there could be a difference but anyone who is serious will be using the Digital Input on the BL5's.

I'm not so excited about BeoSound 5's audio performance but the design and user interface and what it will actually do!

jazz

Hehe, someone has a sense of humor. Bang & Olufsen will use companies like Samsung when they need them for things like LCD panels and telecommunication products. They will not however use these companies to design their products and for a good reason. Having been to Struer, I will say that B&O is an amazing company that goes extraordinary lengths to continue its heritage. Very few companies still hand build products.

 

Joe 

Joe,

Being that very few of us have been to or are ever likely to see the B&O factory, would you be so kind as to convey your experiences.

jazz

jazz:

Being that very few of us have been to or are ever likely to see the B&O factory, would you be so kind as to convey your experiences

See...http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/thread/22392.aspx