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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 06-29-2009 7:20 PM by benjnz. 64 replies.
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  • 06-28-2009 11:12 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    vikinguk:

    Really bad news should B&O need to raise any further funds in addition to  slashing their costs and overheads.

    I wonder what B&Os cash reserves are, if indeed they have any? Most companies build up cash in good times so they can ride bad times and invest in technology if they needs rises, in the future.

    As they are made a loss up to February 2009 (and I can't imagine it's improved since then), to cover that loss, they would have had to dig in to cash reserves.

  • 06-28-2009 11:22 AM In reply to

    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    And as I plough through the Sunday Times again I find an article by Matt Rudd listing all the high tech products he has that don't fulfill their promised function. No mention of B&O but the headline....... 'The iPhone's best trick: it works.'

    Final para re poor performing products......... 'I accept all this without complaint because I am used to technology not doing what it's supposed to do. But iPhones are the exception to the rule and if Apple made cars I'd buy one. And, when the company announced a better version, complete with slightly better wipers, I'd buy it. Like a million other mugs.'

    Apple  may not need B&O but B&O needs to get back to a position where enough buyers are happy enough to repeatedly buy their latest premium priced products in the knowledge that they will exceed expectations.

    Graham

    I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure. [W C Fields]

  • 06-28-2009 2:49 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
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    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    vikinguk:

    Apple  may not need B&O but B&O needs to get back to a position where enough buyers are happy enough to repeatedly buy their latest premium priced products in the knowledge that they will exceed expectations.

    Graham

    And I agree Graham. However, according to Razlaw, we should put up and shut up! If there are major issues (and I'd regard red lines as major issues across my new MKIV), I want resolution.

  • 06-28-2009 3:59 PM In reply to

    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    vikinguk:

    And as I plough through the Sunday Times again I find an article by Matt Rudd listing all the high tech products he has that don't fulfill their promised function. No mention of B&O but the headline....... 'The iPhone's best trick: it works.'

    Final para re poor performing products......... 'I accept all this without complaint because I am used to technology not doing what it's supposed to do. But iPhones are the exception to the rule and if Apple made cars I'd buy one. And, when the company announced a better version, complete with slightly better wipers, I'd buy it. Like a million other mugs.'

    Apple  may not need B&O but B&O needs to get back to a position where enough buyers are happy enough to repeatedly buy their latest premium priced products in the knowledge that they will exceed expectations.

    Graham

    Oh please. Sounds like Walt Mossberg! The reality is that Apple products work fine when they work, but their failure rates are getting outlandish. In the past 12 months alone I've had to replace my MacBook Air once and have since had it in for two repairs and four trips to the store for tech support, replaced an iPhone 3 times, and replaced my wife's iPhone twice (with another one on the way judging by the way the speakers seem to be crackling). That's appalling and in my 1o year history of buying Apple it's going downhill.

    Not really defending us as I agree that some Danes need to pull their heads out of their a$ses, but I'm as sick of hearing about Apple as though it was handed down from the Gods as some forum members are of hearing the "take our defects and say thank you" line from some posters.

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 06-28-2009 4:33 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
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    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    TripEnglish:

    Not really defending us as I agree that some Danes need to pull their heads out of their a$ses, but I'm as sick of hearing about Apple as though it was handed down from the Gods as some forum members are of hearing the "take our defects and say thank you" line from some posters.

    I agree Trip. I know of a large number of colleagues who have had to return and replace their iPhone.

    However, three differences:

    1) the Apple products are very cheap, in comparison. We're talking sw problems with some of B&Os premier products.

    2) there are many many more Apple products (than B&O kit), so statistically you're likely to find people who have had some kind of problem with Apple kit

    3) Apple are far better at talking to their customers directly and resolving issues, I've found. B&O aren't. They completely rely on their dealers. They do not and won't talk directly to their customers, issue an apology, call to see if their relationship with their dealer is causing issues and so on. Apple do. You can call Apple!

  • 06-28-2009 4:44 PM In reply to

    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    >>) Apple are far better at talking to their customers directly and resolving issues,<<

    That is not true. I just recall the Macbook Air "hinge" problem. Mine has that, there is no acknowledgement an done has to argue with them.

    Also, there is a thread on their own support forum, running 6 month or so about a bug in the OS that caused a crackling sound when trying to use a blue tooth headset. That was a problem across all their computer models and no word if they are working on it or not.

     

    Difference I believe is, Apple does that on purpose, B&O is just not organized well enough.

     

     

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 06-28-2009 4:55 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
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    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    jk1002:

    Difference I believe is, Apple does that on purpose, B&O is just not organized well enough.

    Perhaps. Who knows. I don't know how much of it is 'done on purpose' and how much of it is controlled. When you sell hundreds of thousands of products to, erm, passionate users, those people can often return things with the slightest problem. I'm not including you with those users, but I'm sure Apple don't just fix any and every issue, 'just because'. If they did, word would get around and lots of people would suddenly have those hinge issues.

    B&O are stubborn though. It's not just organisational issues. They stubbornly refuse to interact or talk to their users regarding any issues. They don't even talk to most member of the press, including our consumer tech magazines!! They don't even answer our emails!

  • 06-28-2009 5:14 PM In reply to

    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    >>They stubbornly refuse to interact or talk to their users regarding any issues<<

     

    My sales guy called me up 6 month after I received my TV asking if everything is OK with the product. Now one can argue he was looking to upsell but I bought a BV8 BC2 from him and he knows about my BL3/BL2 and BS9000 so what is there more to upsell? BS5 wasn't in stores back then and now that it is he doesn't call ..... Speaks again for how disorganized they are .....

     

    Cheers

    JK

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 06-28-2009 5:27 PM In reply to

    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    Talking of strange responses from dealers, I asked about a Beo4 wall holder when last in my local store. They could only find a used one in the basement and offered it to me at a discount.

    Two weeks later I get a thank you letter detailing the guarantee that comes with my new purchase! Fortunately there's not much that can go wrong with a holder although I was warned not to drop the Beo4 into it as it could break the holder base and go straight through! Another (un)fit for purpose product??????

    Graham

    I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure. [W C Fields]

  • 06-28-2009 9:58 PM In reply to

    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    moxxey:

    TripEnglish:

    Not really defending us as I agree that some Danes need to pull their heads out of their a$ses, but I'm as sick of hearing about Apple as though it was handed down from the Gods as some forum members are of hearing the "take our defects and say thank you" line from some posters.

    I agree Trip. I know of a large number of colleagues who have had to return and replace their iPhone.

    However, three differences:

    1) the Apple products are very cheap, in comparison. We're talking sw problems with some of B&Os premier products.

    2) there are many many more Apple products (than B&O kit), so statistically you're likely to find people who have had some kind of problem with Apple kit

    3) Apple are far better at talking to their customers directly and resolving issues, I've found. B&O aren't. They completely rely on their dealers. They do not and won't talk directly to their customers, issue an apology, call to see if their relationship with their dealer is causing issues and so on. Apple do. You can call Apple!

    I think you've diagnosed the problem right there, Moxxey. The experience in the stores is not only spotty, but (and I'm not just going on the info here on the forum) almost universally sub-par. I can only imagine how many people are actually less likely to buy our product AFTER being in a store!

    As an owner/operator I hear about experiences from my customers about visits to other retailers both nearby and around the world and I just sigh. And here I'm extra frustrated with Apple at the moment, but every time I go into the store my blood pressure goes down, not up! 

    We spend a lot of time talking about the products and prices and those are things that will remain contested, but someone needs to crack the whip and start expropriating stores and revoking dealer licenses!

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 06-28-2009 10:18 PM In reply to

    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    The_Beonic_Man:
    you have to question why they are coming out with their first handsfree landline (speaker phone capable) so late? This technology is ancient. What the heck have they been thinking?

    Indeed.

    Furthermore, the pace at which people are abandoning their fixed landlines and going mobile-only is nothing short of stunning.  It is troublesome to see B&O jumping into a dying maket.

  • 06-28-2009 10:41 PM In reply to

    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    bayerische:
     I understand not wanting to have a BV9 or BL5's in storage, but Beo5 and ML cable...? I found it a bit strange

     

    I bought PL cable in December and March.   Standard lenghts, 10m.

    The cable took 3 weeks to arrive each time, because it comes from Poland.  Each and every time one orders some.  This is speaker cable, for crying out loud.

  • 06-29-2009 2:54 AM In reply to

    • Kokomo
    • Top 100 Contributor
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    • Joined on 08-21-2007
    • Spain
    • Posts 618
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    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    Apple are far better at talking to their customers directly and resolving issues, I've found. B&O aren't. They completely rely on their dealers. They do not and won't talk directly to their customers, issue an apology, call to see if their relationship with their dealer is causing issues and so on. Apple do. You can call Apple!

    Do B&O still run the Saturday morning telephone help service?

    A couple of years or so back I rang them a couple of times for advice which was very forthcoming. It was succinct, but sadly totally incorrect!  

     

  • 06-29-2009 4:09 PM In reply to

    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    BeoSound 5 was a big disappointment for me because it has no disc player. Otherwise it could have been a perfect replacement for my Beocenter 2. Considering how long B&O's product development takes, I would suggest to forget all kinds of disc or HD players and focus on these things: 

    Speakers: Beolab 9's are easily competing within the high-end league.

    AV receivers: The Beosystem 3 is a perfect integration of B&O speakers with different kinds of media players, game consoles and displays - all controlled by a Beo4.

    TV sets: Integrated TV sets based on Beosystem 3 but with newer screen technology (LCD and Panasonic's ultraslim NeoPDP plasmas)

     

     

  • 06-29-2009 7:20 PM In reply to

    • benjnz
    • Top 150 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Auckland NZ
    • Posts 392
    • Gold Member

    Re: How hard is Bang & Olufsen hit ?

    Are their shares worth buying, well generally the rule in share purchases - for those of us of in the normal purchasing world would be buy what you can afford to loose.

    It's generally regarded as a great time to buy shares in companies now, but only if you hold long term 5-10 years. If I had the spare cash I'd certainly be buying B&O stock Big Smile

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