Hi all,

if a beogram 4000 arm, instead of lowering at the start of the record, goes stright to the end of the record and then comes back, has a small or a big problem? If I get a 4000 with this problem, will I be able to easily fix it, or will it be very difficult?

Thanx

Loris

It will be a sensing problem of some sort since it doesn't see the record.

Shouldn't be too hard but finding a good repairer can be tricky since many
repairshops reject tangentials as being too complicated, especially the BG4000.

Martin

Thanx for the advice. Do you think I can can fix it by myself, even if I barely can use a solder.....?

Loris

..... and I just have a tester..... without the manual.....

btw: you get up early in the morning

To be honest, if you are not VERY good with servicing electronics and B&O in particular, it's not a job for you.
I've seen too many sad cases where what was actually a simple fault had turned into a complete mess because
the owner, wholeheartedly, well-meaning but unable, tried to service his Beogram himself.

Not knowing your tech skills, the Beogram 4000 is easy to get into but definitely not the easiest machine
to service. When I write that it's probably a simple fault, I mean for a trained tech guy who is familiar with the
BG4000 and it's peculiar ways. Worth getting it serviced prof. in my opinion.

If you feel like having a go yourself, put an oscilloscope to the power supply rail(s) and look for ripple.
Finding bad power supply capacitors is quite common in these wonderful machines. Note that one of the large
capacitors is a bipolar type and used in the platter (AC-) motor circuit rather than the power supply.
Then put the scope to the signal path from the tracking arm sensor and
look for the reflection pattern caused by the radial platter streaks. Should be a fairly clean and well-defined signal.

Martin

Thanx again. From your explanations I deduce I'm completely unable to fix the 4000. I'll definitely not get this 4000 but will search for a perfectly working one

loris

Sounds right but all Beogram 4000 has nearly the same age and finding a working one could take time.

I would sugest get the one you mentioned here and ship it to Dillen for the service.

Then you will have the best BG4000 you can get these days.

at last I wanted to get it, but I could not be present at the end of the auction....

and it went for 127 euro.

maybe next time

Hi there,

I wanted to add my remarks about the Beogram 4000. I have one that I'm currently restoring & I'm being very patient with it. Finding one that is "perfect" is a daunting task! I'm in California & quite truly I hardly ever see Beogram 4000's come up for sale. You have a few more over in Europe, therefore if you see one that appears reasonably good & has not been banged around or ruined via shipping, I highly recommend you get one!!!!!!! It's a very, very nice table & is really an iconic product from B&o. They exude a quality & sturdiness that is hard to define & you'll find most other folks on this forum feel equally about them. Be VERY careful regarding transport as many have been destroyed via shipping. If you have questions here just ask. The designer Jacob Jensen regards it as one of his finest creations ever. 

Cheers,

Duncan

Thanx Duncan,

actually I'm looking for a working beogram 4000/6000

.... if it's not too expensive.

How is a right price?

Loris

Thre is quite a difference between these models. The 4000 is the original and is extremely complez with its own frequency generator and complex electronic switching. It has a wonderful AC motor by Pabst I believe. The first few 4002s and 6000s were much simplified in the electronics but kept the AC motor but these were soon changed to the DC motor seen in many Beograms. The 4000 also has a much heavier platter.

The 6000 also has the CD4 board which has a built in RIAA. Whether you think this is a good thing may influence your choice. If you are not using CD4, one could argue that you are putting a lot of electronics between you and the signal - good though it is.

I actually have had all these and the 4000 is my favourite and the 4004 is the one I use the most!

Thanx for the info. I thought they were a family of very similar turntables. So, in your opinion, If I have a working 5005, it's a waste to get a 4002 or 6000. I have to get a 4000. ?

Loris

It rather depends on what you want. The 4002 and 4000 actually sound very similar - the 4000 is more complex and better engineered but is also more likely to have faults - though the 4002 will almost certainly need servicing as well. Both offer an improvement in sound over the 5005 but neither will blow your socks off! Don't bother with the 6000 unless you want the RIAA as they are more expensive and rare. If you are serious about wanting the very best record player, then Beograms are just the best automatic decks. There are cheaper manual decks which will outperform them.

If you have a 5000 type system, stick with the 5005 if you want to listen to just a few LPs. The best upgrade to this system is to make sure you have a CD5500 rather than a CD50!

Peter,

I actually have a Pink Triangle PTTOO turntable with an Alphason HR100S arm and Van Den Hul MC2 cartridge. I bought them all used and the value is, more or less, 1400 euro For construction they are a whole different league. They're heavy ( even  if not too much) , solid,  well built. The cartridge alone ( used, beacuse it costs 1800 euro if new) costs more than a whole beogram 4000. I just wanted to try a B&O system and check if there is so much difference between my setup and a Beogram one. iF I'll hear no or few differences, I'll sell the Pink Triangle and keep the B&O.

Loris

PS We're talking about stuff that's cheap. if I have to invest 150 euro on a working 4000/4002, I'll certainly do it. If I'm not satisfied I can always sell it. The only problem is the cartridge. To check if I like a turntable I have to get a new cartridge, and this is the most expensive part of the game.  Luckily a friend of mine went to New York and I arranged a SMMC4 delivery. Whithin 10 days I'll have this new cartridge on the 5005

You will find a 4000 very well built and with far more inside than your 5005 or Pink Triangle. The 4000 will appear bass light compared to the PT though -part of this is due to the platter - audiophiles in the US actually swapped the platter for one of mirrored glass and used a record clamp to get around this - they also swapped the cartridge but I think that rather ruins the looks. If you find a decent Beogram, I could lend you a 20CL to try if it does not have one. I do have an SME headshell to try it with other decks or a universal mounting.

Thanx for the offer..... but first I have to get a 4000

I'll let you know my opinion on PTsetup  VS  B&O 5005/SMMC4

Loris

ps isn't the simplification inside the 4002 or 5005, as opposed to the 4000,  due to "new" integrated circuitry?

Have you some bigger picture of the swapped-cartridge assembly?

Thanx

Actually there are more ICs in the 4000! The switching in the 4002 is just a lot simpler - nothing wrong with that! The 4000 gives the impression of being an engineer's model with all sorts of little refinements whereas the 4002 has been looked at by the accountants! Here is a picture of the modified 4002 arm.

1 Which cartridge is used here? Or is usually used? a light one with high compliance is needed. isn't it?

2 Could you take a look at this video and tell me how would you fix the spindle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysz43H1afPM

Loris

It is a Grado of some sort. The arm required surgery apparently!

That bearing looks appalling! I had forgotten just how tatty the 5005 turntable was! I have a 7000 in a box upstairs but never use it. I will do a picture of my 4000 for comparison! The bearing in integrated into a die cast sub chassis which is sprung using three leaf springs. It takes quite a bit of effort to get the spindle in and out of the bearing! It has no movement laterally!! Not sure what I would do with that 5005 though! This is the problem with using nasty cheap plastic and one of the reasons I don't like the late tangential tracking decks! Denis Carr, who now owns a franchise in London, when he was a salesman in Newcastle, demonstrated the sturdiness of the 4000 deck by putting it on the floor and standing on it!

THIS IS A BEARING. It seems a  LENCO one, very heavy built.

the 5005 bearing and spindle are not plastic, but the bearing seems just "pressed" in place ( with a hit of a hammer:-).

I noticed that if I turn the bearing a little, it doesn't move, but just for a while. After a while it moves againg. I could try to turn the bearing a quarter of turn and see if it stays still....

Loris

Looks brass but the sub chassis is plastic - not what a subchassis should be. The 4000 is very heavy and the platter is also much heavier. I suppose you could glue it but it is most disappointing quality. This is the later 4002 which is not quite so heavy.

.... but at least this bearing seems a "real" bearing....

I would suggest that your 5005 has been abused at some time in it's life. Perhaps it once belonged to Peter's friend from Newcastle!

Cosmetically challenged decks from this series are cheap enough and it does not take a rocket scientist to make one good one out of two faulty ones. The sub chassis is common to all versions from the Beogram 3000 up to BG7000.

Agree. The 8000 and 8002 were the last really good decks - the 6002 is a suprisingly good cheap package but after that it was all downhill.

Of course if you want the best Beogram, you need one of these! See Frede!