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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 05-03-2009 8:59 PM by Dave. 39 replies.
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  • 04-28-2009 5:50 PM

    • Beogen
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 05-12-2007
    • Belgium
    • Posts 135
    • Bronze Member

    B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Does anyone has some advice for me how to react on this issue:

    I sold my BM1 and bought a BS5 because my dealer received a note where B&O stated that in the next update gapless playback should be integrated. Now I receive an answer that this is cancelled from the list. For me this is very important because on a lot of my CD's the tracks follow each other without pauses. Am I the only one who thinks that a 5000 euro system should reproduce the music as it was recorded? Even my 300 euro iPod does a great job in playing gapless.

    I am a loyal customer during 15 years and I don't have a lot to complain about but now I'm very annoyed!

    The dealer can't be blamed because he showed me the original update note.

    The first answer I got from B&O was this:

     

    quote

     

    We are pleased to see that you are the owner of BeoSound 5. However we are sorry that you are not satisfied with this product.

    Gapless playback of music files is not supported on the BeoSound 5, and we regret that your dealer has informed wrongly about this. We are not able to inform if or when this will change. But we have reported your wish for this feature.

    AAC (together with MAC as editor PC) is already supported by the BeoMaster 5.

     

    The second answer:

     

    quote

     

    We regret that you are not satisfied with the fact that we do not have plans at the moment about introducing gapless playback. As already informed you, we have reported your wish for this feature. We will therefore consider this for a future update, but we are not able to guarantee that it will be introduced.

     

    Anyone interested in a brand new BM5/BS5?

     

     

  • 04-28-2009 5:59 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    In Britain we have a clause which states something has to be 'fit for purpose' and, if your dealer said that you would get gapless playback support in the next feature update - in order to make the sale - then you would be able to return the product for a full refund. ie. they sold you the product with false information.

    Dunno about Belgium though. Do you not have something similar?

  • 04-28-2009 6:13 PM In reply to

    • Beogen
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 05-12-2007
    • Belgium
    • Posts 135
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    He showed me the note on his computer, I don't have it on paper.

    My dealer on the other hand is one of the best so I don't think he will make a problem if I would return the goods.

    But this is the last thing I would like to do. I would like to have the product play gapless as B&O stands for reproducing music as it was recorded.

  • 04-28-2009 6:29 PM In reply to

    • 9 LEE
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Moderator - UK
    • Posts 5,223
    • Founder

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Hmmm...  difficult one this.

    Remember the BS5 is software based, so anything is possible.  Remember too that B&O never makes promises, they are Danes - and Danes are cautious by nature when it comes to making sweeping or rash statements !!

    However, if they see something as a serious issue - i can almost guarantee they will already be working on it.

    Personally, i wouldn't sell it yet.  I mothballed my useless Beo5 for a whole year - but now look what it can do!  Give Keith Saunders a BeoSound 5 and it'll be hoovering your lounge in around 9 months time.. (that's after it's done the washing up of course).

    Lee

    BeoWorld - Everything Bang & Olufsen

  • 04-28-2009 8:58 PM In reply to

    • Dave
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Brisbane, Australia
    • Posts 2,328
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    That was one of the things i remember asking my dealer about too here, and he confirmed that they were going to upgrade that (considering it is a BASIC function that other cheap products have standard).

    Hypothetically- if i was in the market to buy one, the fact that you can't yet paly mp3's like cd's completely stops me from even imagining buying one. (you can't fast forward through a track, another basic function, even the BS2 does it).

    My advice is, yes hang on to your BS5, you've bought it now, and it's still an incredible product and there are alot of really positive aspects you can appreciate until the gapless is resolved; M.O.T.S which is excellent, ease of use, sound quality, being very upgradeable, etc etc

    “Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”

    Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.

     

     

  • 04-29-2009 2:49 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Beogen:

    But this is the last thing I would like to do. I would like to have the product play gapless as B&O stands for reproducing music as it was recorded.

    Oh. I was a little confused as the post gave me the impression you weren't happy and were thinking of selling it on ;)

    In that case, I'd do what 9LEE says and wait for the gapless software update. It will come, I'm sure.

  • 04-29-2009 3:03 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
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    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
    • Founder

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    I do think that B&O confuses field updates with field development at times.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 04-29-2009 3:09 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    As an interim solution, would it be possible to re-rip & encode the CDs as single music files?

    I don't know how practical this is if the BS5 offers no easy way to jump inside titles, but I'd expect the "gapless" recordings to be either classical music or live concerts, which you'd mostly want to listen in original order anyway...

    -mika

  • 04-29-2009 5:19 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Hi Beogen:

    BS/BM5 setup is a software based product, so all could be possible but you have to be patient. In this way, I've read this yesterday:

    (...) Top issues that are according to product specifications and that will be prioritized and considered candidates for future software releases:
     
         
      ·
    N.Music/N.Radio navigation on TV - possibility of navigating through the music collection on the TV screen
      ·
    Gapless playback in N.Music - e.g. live recordings should be played as one track and not divided into several tracks
      ·
    Fast forward and rewind in N.Music
      ·
    Access to content stored other places in the network - e.g. NAS-drive, server, USB-HDD etc.
      ·
    Backward compatibility with older Bang & Olufsen televisions - possibility of connecting and using BeoMaster 5 together with older televisions that do not "understand" the PC command
      ·
    Support for Asian character sets
      ·
    Software clients - plug-ins for Windows Media Player and iTunes on PC
      ·
    Progress indicators for MOTS calculations
      ·
    Auto software update notification (on-screen notice to customer that an update has been made)
      ·
    TV sound (option 1.1 & 2.2) - Possibility to play TV sound in the speakers connected to BeoMaster 5
      ·
    Link room support - possibility to place BeoSound 5 in a link room in option 5 or 6 (...)

    Jq. BS4 BL3 A8 Form2

  • 04-29-2009 6:13 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Personnally, I never trust any promise, from B&O or from anyone trying to sell me something.

    If a certain feature is important to me, I want to see it working!

    In your case, it is no-one's fault, as your dealer truly beleived what was announced by B&O. It is just that the list of future features is not garanteed.

    I like the Beosound 5 but not with the current software, so I'll refrain until it's got all the features I need.

  • 04-29-2009 6:27 AM In reply to

    • kawo
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Posts 516
    • Founder

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    I have several CD's I listen to quite oftern (e.g. Pink Floyd the Wall) and with a gap this would not be a pleasure...

    Anyway, I learned my lesson and I never trust in future promises (Samsung is a good candidate for this..). If the deivice is not performing in the way it should be, I don't buy.

    _________________________________________________________________________

    BV4-50, Beosystem 3, Beolab 5, Beolab 3, BV3-32, BV1, BS9000, Beolab 4, Beolab 2000, Beo4 Cinema

  • 04-29-2009 7:21 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    For all customers in the EU: read the European customers/consumers regulations.

    It states that a producer/retailer must comply to all the specifications AND all the told specification of a product at moment of the purcharge (even if it actually doesn't comply to the spec)

    Otherwise a customer has rights to cancel the purcharge and/or get a refund. Note: the producer/retailer must get the time and ability to adjust the product to the spec's.

     

    So if a car salesman tells you your new car can float; you can test it and it should float!Wink


  • 04-29-2009 7:51 AM In reply to

    • plagente
    • Top 500 Contributor
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    • Joined on 11-06-2008
    • Albi (France)
    • Posts 137
    • Silver Member

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    The BS5 is still a beta version.

    Sorry for your story. You have to wait for the next versions and hope that the roadmap will be updated.

    We have to recognize that the BS5 has a very small set of functions (for a PC...).

    A basic 90$ MP3 player has more functions than this one.

    This is what happens when a company in financial distress MUST sell a product that is not finished.

     

     

     

    http://p-lagente.blogspot.com/

  • 04-29-2009 10:28 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Sometimes I can't help thinking that B&O is going backwards:

    - 20 years ago you had 2-way communication with the remote controls, now you don't

    - 20 years ago you had display on the BeoLab speakers , no longer now

    - BeoSound 2 played gapless music, my Serenata doesn't...same story for BeoMaster 5Angry

    Isn't progress the logical step forward???

     

    Reunion Island is greeting you!

  • 04-29-2009 10:46 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    In the '60's we were able to go to the moon within 10 years... Now we don't anymore..

    The race for quality has no finish line- so technically, it's more like a death march.

  • 04-29-2009 11:16 AM In reply to

    • beobeo
    • Top 75 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Spain
    • Posts 953
    • Founder

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    If you are not happy with your B&O purchase, for whatever reason, even changing your mind (within a certain time after the purchase, of course), you should be able to return it and get your money back. That's the way it works in the 3 shops I've dealt with in Spain. B&O is a high end brand and I expect nothing less than that.

    Even you should be able to buy the BS5 as it is today, and have it swapped out for a new one (with the feature you were told), free of charge, whe it's available (that's a possibility with my current store!).

    That happened to me with the BV7, I said I was going to hold out until the MkIII version arrive and the sales guy told me to take the MkII and he will swap it out with the MkIII as soon as it's available, free of charge and with a written commitment. That's a good salesman!

    Gustavo

  • 04-29-2009 12:05 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Missing Gapless and missing 2 way is actually while I am holding off buying a BS5.

     

    My Apple TV has both and while I would love to have MOTS and better integration into my B&O setup I wait it out and listen to CDs. Not happy with Apple either as my Itunes Library keeps loosing cover art.

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 04-29-2009 12:19 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Carolpa:

    So if a car salesman tells you your new car can float; you can test it and it should float!Wink

    Phew, was touch and go for a while!

     

     

  • 04-29-2009 1:54 PM In reply to

    • Beogen
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 05-12-2007
    • Belgium
    • Posts 135
    • Bronze Member

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Thank you all for these answers!

    As I've read I also don't trust B&O and its promisses since I owned a BM1 before and waited a long time before a decent update was released.

    What bothers me the most is how Beocare treats his customers. I didn't get an answer why the gapless update was taken away from the list and moved to 'a possible candidate for a next update'.

    I really adore a lot of their products but here they lost me. B&O stands for a high quality reproduction...yeah

     

  • 04-29-2009 8:25 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Errr. Hang on a minute,

    I have reviewed this thread and re-tested a number of albums on the BS5 and CD that I have and looked into this galpless issue once more. These include live albums, classical compositions and progressive albums like The Wall.

    All I can say is that the "gap" between tracks on the BS5 is the same as it was on the original CD.  i.e. If there is no apparent "gap" in say clapping/appluase between CD tracks on th CD, the BS5 appears on my recordings to play the same. Where "Live" albums have been stitched together from separate live recordings (or from a different recording source at the same venue), then you hear that (or the sound engineers attempt to blend the two) on both the CD and the BS5.

    Of course, there may be an issue with ripping CD's at lower bit-rates which reveals a "gap" more explicitly. I dont know.  

    My 2 cents.

     

    10%

  • 04-29-2009 9:55 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    MP3 and AAC have typically the gap. WAV which I assume you may have does not have that.

     

    Apple did something within Ipod & Itunes to remove the gap digitally and stitch the songs together ....

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 04-29-2009 11:42 PM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Hey Mr10Percent, do you like living in a Ford Transit? LaughingLaughingLaughing

    My B&O: 2009 Catalogue and Pricelist

  • 04-30-2009 2:47 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    jldmelb:
    Hey Mr10Percent, do you like living in a Ford Transit? LaughingLaughingLaughing

    ...go on.

    Am I missing a bit of wit here?

  • 04-30-2009 2:51 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
    • Founder

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Mr10Percent:

    jldmelb:
    Hey Mr10Percent, do you like living in a Ford Transit? LaughingLaughingLaughing

     

    ...go on.

    Am I missing a bit of wit here?

     

    You know sometimes when you wish you hadn't asked......................


    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 04-30-2009 2:58 AM In reply to

    Re: B&O made some promisses...and makes me angry

    Peculiar?

     

    Actually, it’s more of a Boeing Transit rather than a Ford.

     

    …and where did Ford come in to this and why now?????

     

    I must have logged on to the wrong forum this morning?

     

    Ciao. Keep taking the pills.

    10%

     

     

     

     

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