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Untitled Page
ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012 READ ONLY FORUM
This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and
1st March February 2012
Latest post 07-15-2009 6:03 PM by erg4000. 62 replies.
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moxxey
- Joined on 04-14-2007
- South West, UK
- Posts 2,360
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Alex:
I saw The Dark Knight on Blu-Ray through BeoLab 5s yesterday - don't think I've ever heard so much bass from a consumer sound system! If they do lack bass, it's almost certainly to do with the room or way they're set up.
Alex, you have an ability to frustrate me more than anyone else on this board :)
I've said time and time and time again that Blu-ray movies through BL9s are outstanding. I also keep saying that the same movies through the BL5s would be a step up again.
Listen to a modern audio CD via the BL5s or BL9s (connected to my BV7-40) and they sound flat, lack bass and so on. Which is the complete point of this discussion. We wanted to know how we can get more bass and less of a flat performance from certain audio sources.
Pointing out the obvious - that the BL5s have bass after all with the right source - is something we all already know ;)
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moxxey
- Joined on 04-14-2007
- South West, UK
- Posts 2,360
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Beolab:
Alex have you been hypnotized by your B&O dealer?
Alex is a dealer - he works for the Bath B&O store!
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Beolab
- Joined on 05-18-2007
- Sweden
- Posts 535
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I know that moxxey... What i want to say is that Alex need to look outside the box if i should take him seriously as a good salesman at B&O! A little bit "snowed in B&O fanatic at such a young age" i think. But nobody is perfect, not even me =)..
Regards
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moxxey
- Joined on 04-14-2007
- South West, UK
- Posts 2,360
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Yes, I know you know - I posted before reading the complete thread. Apologies.
I don't know how anyone can get so fanatical about equipment. It serves a purpose, no more. I'd get passionate about my family, kids, my career - ie. anything that I do personally. Not something objective and definitely not something someone else has designed and produced for me!
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Alex
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Bath & Cardiff, UK
- Posts 2,990
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Hardly. As I've said, I do have my criticisms of B&O and they're not all shared on this discussion board - in fact they're always kept to myself.
RE the 'flatness' of some sources on BeoLab 5s such as many modern recordings (the latest Death Cab For Cutie album is a prime example) is simply down to the recording (as you seem to have highlighted). I don't see this as a problem relating to the BeoLab 5, but more a problem relating to the recordings, they're engineered to be played on systems with narrower bandwidths and poor dynamic capabilities. When played on good speakers such as 9s or 5s, that's just how they sound - limited in bandwidth, dynamically flat and generally 'washed out'.
To try and improve the situation a little, BeoLab 5s can be EQd by the use of a good digital EQ. You can use an analog EQ, but digital is preferable. The kit to go for would be a Klark Teknik DN9340E and some AES <> SPDIF converters (Hosa make a 2-way one). The EQ has 12-band parametric and 31-band graphic options, is fully remote controllable through a computer so can be hidden out of the way and has recall modes, so you can set an EQ for a specific album/tune and recall the sound you liked whenever you want.
Weekly top artists:
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soundproof
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Posts 2,340
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Have you tried Audiolense? Fantastic program - measures the room response, calibrates and adjusts the EQ to give you the response you want, or the ideal flat response by counteracting problems with room acoustics. You install the program on the computer you're using for playback, and the program makes the necessary adjustment before the signal is sent to your sound system.
Actually very easy to use - unfortunately PC only so far.
http://www.juicehifi.com/index.html
There's a demo download at this link.
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moxxey
- Joined on 04-14-2007
- South West, UK
- Posts 2,360
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Alex:
RE the 'flatness' of some sources on BeoLab 5s such as many modern recordings
Yes, but then you do wonder why you've spent nearly £12K on a pair of speakers, when the source is to blame ;) Which is why I also say that my BL3s often seem to produce a better audio experience from modern pop/rock music. Also, don't B&O specifically recommend that you should keep your audio source flat and without equalisation? ie. the speaker will do the work for you?
I couldn't use the BL5s with my Blu-ray movies. The BL9s produce an audio experience that blows away the room.
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moxxey
- Joined on 04-14-2007
- South West, UK
- Posts 2,360
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henrik: I'd like to remind you all of the fact that movies and music cds are mastered differently
Yes, we're aware. Hence why uncompressed audio from a Blu-ray DVD source sounds outstanding!
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moxxey
- Joined on 04-14-2007
- South West, UK
- Posts 2,360
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soundproof:
Why couldn't you use your BL5s with Blu-ray, Moxxey?
Two reasons:
1) BL9s are enough. Sufficient. Dark Knight (example above) is quite superb through the BL9s.
2) No room for BV7-40 + BL5s. Maybe in another place, next time
Hey, I'm not over concerned about the BL5s. I'm not losing sleep over them. I just wondered why there was a lack of bass. I know it's due to the calibration in a furniture filled room (since the original calibration) and poorly engineered modern CDs.
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soundproof
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Posts 2,340
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I agree that BL9s are more than sufficient for home entertainment - very good for movies. And also agree that BL5s need room to perform - just wondered whether there was a technical problem.
Cheers.
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Alex
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Bath & Cardiff, UK
- Posts 2,990
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The official line is that yes, you should be letting the speakers doing the work for you, and leaving loudness/bass/treble all set to 'off' or '±0'.
The difference between a good parametric or graphic EQ and the 'standard bass/treble' controls is that they really are quite crude in the sense that you can't affect the frequency the affect or the Q - they're fixed. A good professional EQ will allow you complete control over the sound, which is much more preferable...
Weekly top artists:
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soundproof
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Posts 2,340
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It's worth remembering that the calibration is for the bass only, and that it doesn't affect the frequencies above 400Hz.
It's also worth noting that while the speakers measure flat on-axis, you may not necessarily experience that in your listening position, due to peculiarities of the acoustics in your listening room. I spent quite some time "tuning" the room, without it being apparent, in order to get a flat response where I'm seated.
BL5s perform at the 90%+ level out of the box, after calibration and if properly placed, and then it's up to you to close the gap to perfection. And the sources do matter, I have a Dark Side of the Moon remaster that sucks compared to another version I also own ...
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soundproof
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Posts 2,340
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I forgot to ask an obvious question of the thread starter. Are your speakers symmetrically placed with respect to the room and your listening position?
I don't care what B&O says about "freedom to be placed anywhere" that's just marketing talk - for the best possible result, and to avoid room nodes and sound waves cancelling one another out, you should strive for a symmetrical placement and ideally for distance from walls.
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soundproof
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Posts 2,340
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It could be that the placement is cancelling out sound-waves at lower volumes. I experimented a lot with placing my speakers in my listening room, and found significant differences in bass response depending upon where they are.
A tip - at low volume, where you feel there's too little bass, move around the listening room to hear whether there's better bass somewhere else. If so, then that's a good indication that reflections from the room are cancelling out the bass in your listening position. This could be improved by trying another listening position, or moving the speakers.
I have variations of several dB in sound pressure level with measurements taken a foot apart ...
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Dave
- Joined on 04-17-2007
- Brisbane, Australia
- Posts 2,328
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moxxey:
Alex:
I saw The Dark Knight on Blu-Ray through BeoLab 5s yesterday - don't think I've ever heard so much bass from a consumer sound system! If they do lack bass, it's almost certainly to do with the room or way they're set up.
Alex, you have an ability to frustrate me more than anyone else on this board :)
I've said time and time and time again that Blu-ray movies through BL9s are outstanding. I also keep saying that the same movies through the BL5s would be a step up again.
Listen to a modern audio CD via the BL5s or BL9s (connected to my BV7-40) and they sound flat, lack bass and so on. Which is the complete point of this discussion. We wanted to know how we can get more bass and less of a flat performance from certain audio sources.
Pointing out the obvious - that the BL5s have bass after all with the right source - is something we all already know ;)
It's an interesting point and a great topic because of the many variable and doubts, but Alex has never frustrated me with his posts, quite the opposite, and i kinda think that was a passive aggressive post mr. moxxey...
May i add that i found it crazy reading that someone has dropped 12 thousand dollars on a pair of speakers to concur that they are 'sufficient'
“Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”
Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.
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moxxey
- Joined on 04-14-2007
- South West, UK
- Posts 2,360
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Dave:
It's an interesting point and a great topic because of the many variable and doubts, but Alex has never frustrated me with his posts, quite the opposite, and i kinda think that was a passive aggressive post mr. moxxey...
May i add that i found it crazy reading that someone has dropped 12 thousand dollars on a pair of speakers to concur that they are 'sufficient'
Only because I'm not quite as 'passionate' as you are Dave (didn't you claim you would die if you bought another brand?) and you're somewhat disappointed by my response as I should appreciate those BL5s more than I do? In your opinion, clearly.
FYI my comment was tongue-in-cheek as I a) know Alex well from the Bath store (I'm in Bath) and b) put a smiley on it at the end. You should consider doing your homework first before giving my your opinion? If you want to think it's aggressive, fair enough! :)
Shrug.
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Dave
- Joined on 04-17-2007
- Brisbane, Australia
- Posts 2,328
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Never mind then, personally not interested in confrontation.
Sorry if the thread bucked off topic! There were some great points from soundproof, interesting thread
“Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”
Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.
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thavn
- Joined on 02-16-2008
- Posts 138
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This was very interesting reading indeed, espescially Soundproof has some interesting points.
Soundproof mentions And Then There were Three, A Genesis album from 1978. Being a hardcore Genesis fan I have this album on its original vinyl, the remastered 1994 editions (CD), and of course the recently released 5.1 releases including a new stereo remix.
I havent heard the LP version on the BL5, because I don´t have an LP player anymore. But to my ears the new 5.1 remix sounds far better than I have ever heard this album before. To my ears it´s more dynamic than before. The quiet parts are so beautiful, and the the energy with the more heavy parts are wonderful. The new CD release doesn´t do it for me. Maybe it has something to do with my BC2300? Or the fact that a DVD has more storage space, and therefore has less compression issues?
But reading your posts here I understand that you think the first recordings has a wider range and is therefore more dynamic.
Your thoughts is appreciated.
BV10, Avant DVD, BL5, BL4000, BS2300, BV6-26, MX 4002, 2xBeocom 6000, LC2
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soundproof
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Posts 2,340
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Turn me up!
http://www.turnmeup.org/
Turn Me Up!™ is a non-profit
music industry organization campaigning to give artists back the choice
to release more dynamic records. To be clear, it's not our goal to
discourage loud records; they are, of course, a valid choice for many
artists. We simply want to make the choice for a more dynamic record an option for artists.
Today, artists generally feel they have to master their records to be
as loud as everybody else's. This certainly works for many artists.
However, there are many other artists who feel their music would be better served by a more dynamic record, but who don't feel like that option is available to them.
This all comes down to the moment a consumer hears a record, and the
fear that if the record is more dynamic, the consumer won't know to
just turn up the volume. This is an understandable concern, and one Turn Me Up! is working to resolve.
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