soundproof:

And what I'm saying is that if you wish to provide digital content to the market, then you can use Apple's codecs free of charge when providing this content, whether you sell it inside or outside the iTunes store.

Fully agree.

The BeoSound 5 is all about sound quality, but still you can not transfer lossless music from your Apple computer (ie iTunes). The Serenata, now discontinued, introduced as late as November 07 can not get cover art from iTunes...

Quite a few B&O customers that are into music AND computers have Apple products, especially in the age group below 35 as pointed out by Soundproof.

Hopefully the new audio product codenamed A21 will indicate a new approach to iPod....

Roger

the beosound 5 won what hifi best award in what hifi latest issue

they also rated the beolab 9 and beo 5 as fab products this is a very impartial audiophile publication

its real rivals are often much more money like the soloos music centre

is it really a problem you cant transfer from apple there are far more other versions

bno seem to be becoming a much better hifi audio company than there poor performing visual products

i dont believe rich people will just walk into bno and buy there products because there name there loads of fabulous products made by

naim, marantz, arcam, focal to name just a few

they will survive as they have many sidelines like supply quality trims to other manufacturers

the dont need to be like apple just different to appeal to different tastes

Here's a link:

http://www.whathifi.com/Review/BandO-BeoSound-5/

http://www.whathifi.com/Review/BandO-BeoLab5/

http://www.whathifi.com/Review/BandO-BeoLab-9/

I think it touches nicely upon the great interface, and only wish I didn't have to reprocess my two thousand CDs now stored in lossless.

Kind of proves my point - B&O should build great end components for control and the production of sound and image, and these should be platform agnostic, accepting input from a variety of sources, including implementation into the Apple world, without any limitations.

A very generous review.

Flappo The Grate:

i can highly recommend the elagto eye tv software and elgato hardware , i use a tiny little white box - about the size of a matchbox as my tv recorder and it's amazing , just plug an aerial in one end and the usb into your mac - voila !

i've had it over 5 years now and it just gets better and better , they update the software via the net and you get loads of wonderful new features all the time

quality of recordings is also impressive

Yes the store showed me 4 versions of the elgato hardware ... priced from X to 2X ... depending upon how many channels you want active e.g. top of the range records two channels at once while displaying the third ... thanks for your advice/endorsement !

OK, if B&O isn't going to embrace Apple in the way that diehards like myself would like, at least don't hinder those of us that want to play our iTunes media on our B&O equipment.  I agree that, at the very least, B&O should be platform agnostic.  That would mean letting the BS5 play Apple lossless (which I don't think is something that must be licensed).  Or, give us things like a way to hook to BL5s via the digital coaxial inputs with digital media sources other than the BS5.

The Apple ecosystem is too large to ignore.  If you doubt this, use an iPhone as you'll quickly realize that it is and will continue to change things in the computer and A/V industry.  Plus, for many of us, Apple's system has so many attributes in areas other than iTunes that it's the system and hardware that we've embraced.  To make us "work around" this decision (by having do things like have two audio libraries) is, IMHO, a very poor business decision.

Mark D

It appears as though the .m4a container / Apple lossless codec is available for download here for the Windows platform. I'll play around and see if it works. It has appeared so far that any codec installed on the underlying OS adds support in the program itself. That would mean with some minor "modding" we can put our Apple Lossless files on the BeoSound 5.

I'll update with results. 

TripEnglish:

It appears as though the .m4a container / Apple lossless codec is available for download here for the Windows platform. I'll play around and see if it works. It has appeared so far that any codec installed on the underlying OS adds support in the program itself. That would mean with some minor "modding" we can put our Apple Lossless files on the BeoSound 5.

I'll update with results. 

You'd be a popular boy if you do it, Trip.  Good luck!

I've managed to play iTunes encoded ALAC (lossless) files in WMP11 using the decoder listed in THIS link (you should also install one of the meta tag readers listed).

Only tried a few mind but it worked OK for me (iTunes encoded ALAC files on an XP machine running up to date SP3)

TripEnglish:

It appears as though the .m4a container / Apple lossless codec is available for download here for the Windows platform. I'll play around and see if it works. It has appeared so far that any codec installed on the underlying OS adds support in the program itself. That would mean with some minor "modding" we can put our Apple Lossless files on the BeoSound 5.

I'll update with results. 

I hope this works.  I have most of my CDs ripped in Apple Lossless.  

I have also heard that B&O was surprised that most of the purchases of Beosound 5 thus far was from owners of Apple computers.

linder:

I have also heard that B&O was surprised that most of the purchases of Beosound 5 thus far was from owners of Apple computers.

Let's hope this inspires B&O to be equally open to Mac/PC...  That in itself would be a big help.

Can you say "recession-proof"?

http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/20885/

Come on B&O!  Read the tea leaves better.

Mark

"The best non-holiday quarter revenue and earnings in our history"

Apple is demonstrating that high-end products with well studied premium prices, is a sucessfull strategy, even in a crisis period.

I have to underline that EVERY YEAR, Apple renews/updates its product line.

How long did we wait for HDMI on BC6 and BV7 32 ? It's a shame !!!!

Many consumers are ready to put money in high-end products because they offer better user experience, better performance, and better functionalities. If I was B&O I would prefer to sell 10 BV7 32 @ 2900 Euros than 1 @ 5 000 euros. 

But when the price tag is unreal, like B&O's TV, and products are not at the level we can expect, it's a huge huge failure. Like B&O today...

(see the post on B&O stock price...)

B&O could have taken a much more proactive stance, and sought to lead, even when outcomes hadn't been resolved. The fact that the company burned itself badly with VHS/Betacam, going for the latter back in ancient times, has led to an overly cautious culture, where "one wishes to wait until one sees which format/source/platform is the predominant one, and then we'll develop for that."

In the digital age, this is useless. The platforms are given, but the software constantly mutates, and you should pick the platform that attracts the most creative people across a variety of fields.

Over the past month, I have been in the following stores/outlets:

1. The pro-photographers' store which delivers to 90%+ of the people making a living from photography in my country.

2. The pro filmmakers' rental outlet.

3. The leading outlet for engineers working with music and sound, delivering hardware and software solutions, from connectors and cables to advanced soundcards and mixing stations and equipment for recording studios.

4. And I visited a leading musical instruments store together with a friend who plays in an orchestra.

In all of these stores, Apple's products were featured front and center - literally - behind the counter, in pride of place, as well as out in the stores, in demo stations. Solving a variety of tasks that were relevant.

Publishing, graphics, art, science, engineering, architecture -- Apple is delivering solutions in all of these areas too. And with great success, because the platform is reliable, targeted towards solutions, with a variable interface from raw Unix skin to point and click ease.

Nothing even comes close. The mere fact that the person leading Apple is also heavily involved with Pixar, a successful animation company, should have been clue enough for B&O when it comes to which platform to accommodate for, but they made a mistake: they looked at total sales of PCs, and concluded that the Mac universe was insignificant, to the point where they actually ignored it.

And that decision is harming B&O today. They're trying to create their own platform, on top of Windoze, together with Indian and German programmers, in the vain hope that they'll be able to create a proprietary package.
As I've written previously in this thread - Apple provided a powerful tool, which has its own incentive, to tens of thousands of prospective programmers around the world. These do not work for Apple, they work for themselves or the companies that employ them. But with every single contribution to either full software packages or apps for iPhones and iPods, they are adding to the overall value of the Apple platform. Without Apple having to pay for R&D. And it's a completely Darwinian market through the App-store - the best survives, the flawed disappears. Imagine how much better that is than having developed a flawed software package (Vista anyone?) and then spending hundreds of millions on trying to convince people it's good ...

Apple has created the new standard for the transmission and playback of audiovisual content, providing a complete platform from creation to storage to control to sheer enjoyment.

B&O should focus on the best possible speakers and screens, creating dedicated listening and watching environments that are nonpareil, and a simple connection that includes full functionality with whatever platform the customers wish to use. Add a control-interface that is app-malleable, and you have the best of all worlds secured.

Instead of B&O spending resources on trying desperately to make Windoze look good, Apple could help make B&O look excellent right off the bat.

on the whole I agree with you Soundproof, but seriously, I think B&O have lost out on most of the HDTV screen business in 2008 and the rest of 2009

When you have fantastic quality screens like the Essence from Philips at £2000 pounds - it is hard to see B&O making significant inroads into that business

eg  Philips Essence 42PES0001D/10 - 42" Widescreen 1080P HD  Super Slim LCD TV with Freeview included

I do agree that B&O may have a future in selling ICEPower amps and BL5 speakers, and possibly other high end active speakers based upon Lens technology, possibly a few other gadgets when they put their mind to it -  perhaps this comes across as a bit harsh, but the products that have hit the B&O showrooms in the last few years have not taken my breath away in any shape or form.

>>f I was B&O I would prefer to sell 10 BV7 32 @ 2900 Euros than 1 @ 5 000 euros. <<

Maybe they rather make 1000 Euros profit on 1 BV7 then loose 11000 on 10?

We don't know how quick economies of scale kick would kick in for their cost structure.

Did anyone ever consider that Apple is designed as a closed universe? You can't just take their platform and run with that. Yes they opened up the App store. And there are many programmers. But to turn a mac os based computer into a beomedia kind of thing would require lots of internal changes to core OS features. Apple does not open that up. Microsoft sort of did with their embedded windows version.

They could have chosen Linux yes .... but I dont think Windows is so bad. I haven't really read any complaints from beomedia owners yet.

Minor disagreements aside, I've been arguing since the BeoSound 2 came out (I had owned my first mac for less than a year at that point) that their logic for less mac support was rubbish. Their claim was that 97% of computer users used windows, which, while true, ignores that less than 1% of people in the world own B&O and, of that elite group, better than 95% are mac users!

I have seen nothing but positive signs that Kalle understands that our slow-but-steady approach has really just been slow-but-also-slow and is seeking to launch products faster and issue updates as they're becoming relevant and not years later. I fully expect that we won't see the results for another year or so. By that time the economy will be wandering out of its bunker and we'll have over 12 months of post-Kalle releases to judge. If BeoSound 5 sales are any indication of how BeoVision 10 & the new subwoofer will do I'd say we'll be ready to forgive the transgressions of the last few years. 

Hope so, at least. 

JK-

I'm going to reprint part of a post I left a few days ago in the BS5 forum regarding my experience as a Mac user with Beomaster 5/Beosound 5:

"As I Mac user, I found the initial transfer via BeoConnect to be very simple. My only complaint about BeoConnect is that it dumps all of the iTunes files into a common folder on the BeoMedia 5 rather than keeping them organized via Artist folders. 

After my initial file transfer, I booted into Windows via Boot Camp to re-rip some of my favorite music into WMA Lossless. Compared to iTunes, I found MediaPlayer atrocious. In playing around with BeoPlayer, I tried to get some insight into what the B&O programmers must have been thinking. They've really tried to integrate BM5 / BS5 tightly with BeoPlayer. However, I find BeoPlayer to be quite sluggish, non-intuitive, and lacking in control compared to iTunes. When BeoPlayer tried to scan my BM5 for the music files already loaded via BeoConnect, it gave a status message with an estimated scan time of 90 DAYS.

My dealer has advised me that nearly ALL of his Beosound 5 sales have been to Apple users. I was also advised that B&O is seriously looking into adding Apple Lossless support due to the high demand and high proportion of Mac users. Rather than seeing B&O continue to re-invent the wheel with their own Windows-based BeoPlayer efforts, it would be nice to see them focus on better integration with iTunes - which is available for both platforms."

I've always claimed that Apple have recently taken a lot of design cues from B&O. Just look at the design-lineage from Beosystem 6500/7000 onwards, and compare that to the present iMac and MacBook ranges, as well as the present iPod and iPhone. There are a lot of similarities. I can place my iPod next to my MacBook Pro, and you'd see they were from the same manufacturer. I can place my iPhone (white back) next to a white MacBook, and you'd see they belonged together. But I can also place my MacBook next to a Beosystem 6500 or a BeoSound 5, and you'd think they belonged together - or with the BeoSound 4 ...

And my Beo4 looks perfectly at home next to my MacBook Pro.

Providing a very good explanation of why the BeoSound 5 is attractive to Mac enthusiasts. It belongs with their Apple products. If BeoSound 5 had worked natively with my Apple set-up, without my having to go through what beojeff is describing above, then I would have bought two, one for the listening room and one for the home-office.

B&O has a tendency to make proclamations, as Trip describes above: There are 97% Windows users in the world, and only 3% Mac users. And then fail to dig a little deeper: Yes, but how many B&O owners have Macs, and how many Mac users would become B&O owners if you offered simple integration and support?

At each fork in the road, B&O is surprised to discover that the Mac community loves B&O.

bno really should employ soundproof as a product advisor

or someone similarly qualified

they say apple had too small a market share to bother with , well what's bno's market share ?

and since when has bigger meant better , anyway ??

apple made a big profit recently , ms had a 32% loss in sales - nuff said

bno would do well to look at the way apple does it's mojo

His Soundproof,

Apple products are designed by a team led by a UK designer - Jonathan Ive - who is quite heavily influenced by the central European design philosophy of guys like Dieter Rams (the guy that turned Braun into a style leader during the 70s and early 80s). Steve Jobs also likes the same ideas - he allegedly fired a designer because he could see a screw head on a prototype!

The company produces some beautiful consumer products but their philosophy and corporate culture is so very different from B&O it is very difficult to imagine a partnership being either possible or, in the long term, desirable.

By the way, it seems - and I will admit that I am a convert from Apple to Windows - this discussion is less about connectivity and more about Apple's decision to restrict use of their audio coding.

spooky !

http://www.mediabistro.com/unbeige/original/rams-ive.jpg

Hi, Flappo. Brilliant link!

Well spotted, Flappo! Wrote about that here.

http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/p/10733/80057.aspx#80057

Note the small radio with the wheel dial - puts a cinch in B&O's claim that they were first with that. As Picasso said: I do not plagiarize, I improve. (And for all my memory knows, I may have improved on Picasso there.)

Quite well aware of Rams' influence, hardwriter. But if you're at a MacBook Pro, just place your Beo4 next to it, and if you have one, place an MCP 6500 to the right of it, with your iPhone below. It's all in the family, and quite cheeky, too.

And this is just a sampler. One could always claim that there aren't that many options when you want to use aluminium, glass and black - but then Jensen/Lewis were first with that, and have had a lot of imitators. What's particularly interesting, is that Apple has been gravitating towards this over the past few years, after not having used the black frame/clear glass motif - which they tested out on a MacBook generation. But then with the iPod Touch and iPhone, it became the primary design cue. With the latest generation keyboard design really giving the game away.

Still, Apple does not make it easy for 3rd parties to come in. Even if they would want, I doubt Apple would greet them with open arms.

That is just against their strategy.

Most arguments I read here I can follow, especially that B&O users make more usage of Apple products then average makes much  sense to me. 

I think the IR integration they already have is clever,  does it require updating at this point, YES. I miss standby, genius and fast forward backward. For beomedia, the file transfer should be improved, maybe no file transfer at all as an option. Lossless I would want too.

Giving that CDs are "dead man walking" I am thinking with their Beomedia strategy they are on track, just I hope they don't stop here and keep improving it.

Software 2.0, I probably jump on board.