I have 2x RL60s and 2x RL140 speakers, all bought from Ebay within the last 3 months. Based on what I have read on previous threads and been advised by users of this forum, these are quite likely to be suffering from foam rot by now. I can't really tell from listening to them whether there's any damage or not as I have no other good quality speakers to compare them with.

Anyway, at midnight tonight armed with a copy of the service manual kindly provided to me by Steve at Sounds Heavenly I decided against my better judgement (me and electrical quipment don't mix!) to open one of the RL60s up and see what I could see for myself. I did manage to get the back cover off and removed the screws that seemed to be holding one of the bass drivers in place so I could look at it from the front, but it still wouldn't budge. At this point I decided that the job was definitely beyond me and put everything back together (hopefully the way it was before!).

So the point of this thread is to ask if there's any beoworld member, preferably in the Durham area (but let me know even if you're somewhere else in the UK and I will consider), who is familiar with these speakers who would be able to have a proper look at them and if necessary refoam them for me. I would of course pay you for your time and expertise . Alternatively if anyone can recommend somebody who could look at them for a reasonable rate that would be good. I have been told the job isn't too complicated but as I've said I just don't trust my abilities!  

Thanks, Rob.

Hi Rob

I know that the RL140's do definitely suffer from foam rot as I own a pair, the other RL's I'm not sure.

Good Luck

Ben

For the RL60's it's not the actual drivers you need to look at but the ABR (the big rectangular thing at the bottom). If the foam surround has rotted it will likely be quite visible. For pictures see the recent RL45 thread in the "workshop" forum. (It is the drivers in the RL140's, they don't have an ABR).

Although I live nearby I can't help with the re-foaming as I've never tried it myself either. The RL140's are reputed to be very difficult to refoam properly and aren't really a "starter" project. Member Dillen has, I believe done many of these. If they do in fact need doing he may be the man (although you'd have to ship the drivers to Denmark). Alternatively there is Recone Lab in the UK however I suspect this will make the speakers much less of a bargain.

Incidentally I believe Dillen has also sourced a material to "refoam" the ABR's in the RL60's.

Hello Rob, i have put a new post up on the workbench area about refoaming ABR's & if you want to take a leap of faith I am quite welcome to refoam them for you. The cost of postage & foam would be only a few quid plus a small donation to my refoaming fund. Here is my new thread, http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/t/25024.aspx, Beomatt

Rob,

As Puncher suggests, your RL140 woofers are most welcome here.
The tolerances in these drivers are pretty tight so, with all due respect,
I wouldn't recommend this refoam job to a beginner.
Alternatively, I have a set of 4 already refoam'ed woofers for sale.
The way I fix the RL60 ABR plates is quite similar to what's shown in the
thread, apart from the thick material used. Your ABR plates are also welcome
here if need be.
You wouldn't have to send the whole speakers in the given case, just the
drivers and ABR's.

Martin

OK I have opened up both RL60s and here are some photos of them inside.

RL60 #1, close-up of the ABR

RL60 #2 ABR

Clearly the foam has deteriorated around the frame - hopefully someone can tell me how badly, i.e. are they in a such a bad state that the foams should really be replaced, or will the speakers still be functioning OK?

Also, isn't there supposed to be some kind of plate in there, rather than just a big hole!? Looking at Beomatt's thread there should be, or is that just on the RL45s? If there is supposed to be a plate, neither of mine have one!

Photos of RL140s to follow shortly once I've got them open...

Yup - they've removed the plates to stop them thudding about, they should be exactly like the RL45's (it's the same part in both speakers).

The drivers themselves (in the RL60's) aren't susceptible to rot and so will be fine - the ABR definitely needs attention!

Well, looks like I need 2 replacement plates as well as refoaming doing. Martin, is that something you can help with too?

Here are the photos of the RL140 woofers.

RL140 #1 top woofer. This one is relatively in tact, although there are signs that the foam is starting to go.

RL140 #1 Bottom Woofer. This one is much worse as you can see. Will it be worth getting both of these refoamed?

Is there anything else on the 140 I should look at while I've got it open?

I would get them all done at the same time.

Not to dishearten you too much but while they're open it may well be worth replacing the electrolytic capacitors in the crossover networks, if they are still the original parts, as these can deteriorate with age too (there won't necessarily be any visible signs of deterioration for you to see).

Funnily enough Dillen can also supply capacitor kits to do this (I'm not on commission - honest)!

The good news is, once re-foamed and re-capped they'll be good for years to come.

I can only agree to what Puncher already said.

Those woofers are in need of attention. The good thing is that
they are not too bad, meaning that they probably hasn't worn the
coil former. Owners not aware of the potential problems often just play
until something goes badly wrong and then it's most likely too late for repairs.

Your woofers can be repaired to look and work like new again.
The center dustcap will also need replacing, that's not a problem and will have
to be done anyways when reshim'ing the coil.

Sadly, I don't have a spare pair of ABR metal plates at present.
Maybe the best solution for the RL60's would be to check if B&O still supply
the conversion kit.

Capacitor kits are available for both sets.

Martin

Just to add one more note.

I used to have a pair of RL60's with failing drivers and ABR's that I completely renovated.

Refoaming the drivers is always best done in pairs (left and right) as slight variations in sound occur otherwise.

I also suggest changing the capacitors in the cross-overs like mentioned in this thread before... really livens up the speakers.

Though I did replaced my ABR's with generic passive radiators (2 per ABR) with very good results. This was several years ago and my search for a replacement foam/rubber to redo the ABR's mounted to nothing suitable at the time. It resulted in a very good, clear and detailed speaker with crisp highs and slightly less 'boomy' bass . That speaker is still being enjoyed by a friend of mine every day since they were upgraded.

(I think there was a link to a website where a similar makeover is documented somewhere on this site, maybe someone else has it bookmarked ) 

Regards,

O.

Thanks for everyone's tips.

Martin I have sent you a PM with regard to the RL140 woofers and capacitor kits.

Beomatt, thanks for the offer but it's now clear the RL60s need more work than just refoaming.

I'm coming to the conclusion that it might be easier (and cheaper) to just replace the RL60s rather than try and get them repaired.  That would solve the missing strap issue too! I know that RL60.2s don't have the ABR unit, but do they have any other age related problems to be wary of? I know a memer of this forum has a pair on Ebay currently.

On another note, would these speakers work well as part of a home cinema system? When we move into our new house next year I was thinking about connecting our TV to my Beomaster 5000, with the RL140s up front, and the RL60s at the back. Does anyone have any experience of using them for this purpose or have any views on how well it might work?

No probs rgs218, BeoMatt

rgs218:

On another note, would these speakers work well as part of a home cinema system? When we move into our new house next year I was thinking about connecting our TV to my Beomaster 5000, with the RL140s up front, and the RL60s at the back. Does anyone have any experience of using them for this purpose or have any views on how well it might work?

They work quite well, actually. All RL:s seem to have a fairly similar sound, from midrange on up, and back in early 90's I had a pair of RL60:s as main speakers and a split pair of RL45.2:s as center + surround - back in the days of single surround channel of then-new Dolby Surround Pro Logic, surround speaker aimed up to provide an even soundfield.

I can't see why they wouldn't work with current DTS / DD / Pro Logic II surround systems. A center speaker is highly recommended, so it's not a bad idea to keep an eye out for another, smaller pair of RL:s, and use one of them as center.

*sticking my head above the parapet*

Just watch out if it's a large room or you're expecting to play for extended periods at high volumes. RL140s + RL60s both hooked up the 5000 will make it work relatively hard if you're pushing the volume. For TV work I'm sure it will be fine, but for parties or just loud listening you'll be working that 20+ year old amp quite hard running both those loads.

Ok - I'm off to stroke my Beomaster 8000 before anyone comes back and tells me how rocking the 5000 amp is (even though I have one myself).

Do you mean home cinema i.e. surround sound or just duplicating the RL140 channels in the RL60 rears?

The 5000 won't do surround.

Puncher:

Do you mean home cinema i.e. surround sound or just duplicating the RL140 channels in the RL60 rears?

The 5000 won't do surround.

Indeed the 5000 is a 2ch. amp. It would give you only the L+R front speakers.

I use an AV7000 but I guess you won't find any of those in the UK....

Does anyone remember the photos from one of the French members on the 'old' Beoworld where they used a Beomaster 6000 Quad as a surround amp in a contemporary set up? I certainly do - was very interesting, but lacked the centre channel I guess??

Puncher:

Do you mean home cinema i.e. surround sound or just duplicating the RL140 channels in the RL60 rears?

The 5000 won't do surround.

Yeah, I wasn't expecting the full surround sound experience. All I mean is, I'm going to have the full 5000 system in the lounge anyway with the 4 speakers spread around the room to give a fuller sound, and I just thought that perhaps I could hook the TV up to the amp to give a better sound than the standard TV speakers.

John - do you mean that the 5000 simply won't handle the power and give a good sound, or that by using 4 speakers I might wear the amp out?

rgs218:

John - do you mean that the 5000 simply won't handle the power and give a good sound, or that by using 4 speakers I might wear the amp out?

The 5000 is a good amp, but the RL140s are big speakers. I'm sure at sensible listening levels it will sound good. What you've got to remember is that a 20 year old amp may well have electronics that have gone out of spec over the years, and leathering it will probably only bring any nascent problems to a head sooner or later. Many posters on here have raved about how re-capping an amp (or speakers) can quite dramatically improve the quality of the sound reproduction, so it's fair to assume that an older amp may not be giving 100% of its true potential.

Use it at moderate volumes and I'm sure you'll be fine. 4 speakers shouldn't present any specific problems over using 2. Watch for it getting hot though, as this might indicate a problem.

Unfortunately when I received my RL60's not only were the ABR's rotted but the plates were missing altogether. So my solution was a complete passive radiator refit that I learned about reading back threads on this site.

I just finished the refit including rebuilt crossovers and installing new fabric to replace the old tattered and faded cloth.

It works the radiators unmuddied and cleared up the lower bass and toned down the higher pitch frequencies. The sound is really in good balance now. The new caps and resistors also clear out the speaker hiss and buzz.

I am happy with the result.

This link has more information and more pictures on how to change the ABR to passive radiators

http://www.speakerhobby.com/bangolufsen.html

I think I can speak for both me and Eugene here that it's a real worthwhile project to do.

Regards.

O.