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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 02-26-2009 6:10 PM by TripEnglish. 95 replies.
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  • 02-23-2009 10:11 AM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    MGBGTV8:
    also bno have always been a serious hifi maker the biggest specialist in the world and 3rd largest speaker manufacturer at present so they must do something right

    Who are the first 2???

  • 02-23-2009 10:44 AM In reply to

    Re: Loewe commercial

    good question the website i found only mentioned those statistics and i cant find the site at present although i found an interesting blog on whathifi on a trip to bno by a journalist in nov 2008

    wikipedia mentions bno size about 2000 -2500 people which is bigger than most hifi rivals

    i think one of the problems with some leowe and bno tv is the lcd its not good on sd and iam thinking now  even hd

    i saw a leowe connect 37 with leowe bluray playing national treasure 2, not my kind of film

    the scene where they drive a mercedes  down a side street and the camera pans to there faces , there were blurs around there eyes which i found dissapointing 

    the dealer sold both leowe and bno and made statement that he thought  bno the better brand , i thought bno 740 was slightly better on sd

    but didnt see bluray so couldnt compare the 2 brands

  • 02-23-2009 1:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Loewe commercial

    I think you will find blurring of fast movement is a characteristic of all LCD TVs, not just B&O and Loewe. Yes, even the 100hz panels running Blueray. And SD on a 1080 panel does not look that good either. But LCD works better for some images than CRT. It's up to the individual to decie whether the drawbacks outweigh the benefits.

  • 02-23-2009 1:33 PM In reply to

    • KibitoCH
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    I hardly belive a Löwe has the better picture then a BV7-40 MK III. First the Beosystem 3 is one heck of a machine and second, you know that the Beovision 7 has a very special Contrast Antirelex Glass in front of it right? Sucks up around 80% of the Reflections in your home and bumps the Blacklevel alot. I have yet to see such a deep picture on any other TV, especially while watching a Highdef Picture.

    And for those that dident know. If you order that glass as a spare part you pay 1000$ (sorry don't know the change for pounds).

  • 02-23-2009 2:20 PM In reply to

    • kallasr
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    KibitoCH:

    I the Beovision 7 has a very special Contrast Antirelex Glass in front of it

    So does the Loewe Individual.... (and it is not called Löwe).

    I would chose a Loewe TV over Beovision any time - the integration of DVB-S2 (hi def sat tv), Recorder, EPG is perfect! You can even update your TV software via USB stick yourself....

    Ralf, who enjoys his B&O Audio equipment

    My Beo: Beosound 3000, Beolab 4000, Beo 4 DVD,  Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000, Beovox S45.2 with Stands, Beosystem 7000 black with Beolink 7000, Beolink 1000, F1000 (3 cubes), Beovox 5000, Beovox 3000, Attyca 1.

  • 02-23-2009 2:25 PM In reply to

    • mbee
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    If you order that glass as a spare part you pay 1000$

     

    That only confirms that B&O spare parts are largely overpriced!
    By the way, Loewe individual and individual compose alos have an antireflect glass in front of the panel. This technology is not specific to B&O, antireflect coating is done on corrective glasses for instance : you can buy an antireflect glass at every glass producer. Sony and Samsung (for instance) do not add this kind of glass because it is really expensive (for that level of TV) and do not represent a real advantage on the market (a lot of customers prefers no glass at all instead of an antireflect glass in front of the panel).

    You are right when you say that the Beosystem 3 is a trully wonderful audio/video processor, and with all its capacities (video out for instance) it beats a lot of TVs in terms of functionnalities, even Loewe. But the real issue is that every high end TV customer do not want a multiroom/multiscreen capable TV, some people are just searching for a designer TV with a built in HDTV HD recorder : Loewe offers that, not B&O.

  • 02-23-2009 2:28 PM In reply to

    • KibitoCH
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    kallasr:

    (and it is not called Löwe).

    Lol, my  bad Big Smile

  • 02-23-2009 2:44 PM In reply to

    • KibitoCH
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    mbee:

    some people are just searching for a designer TV with a built in HDTV HD recorder : Loewe offers that, not B&O.

    I agree that some people wan't HDTV HDD Recorder but i disagree with it having to be internal. You can take a B&O TV and connect one. If it's done right you won't even see anything. You can hide it, it doesen't have to be visible for the Remote and you can even replace it in the futur if something new arrives.

    And i already see people that whould dislike having to pay for a HDD Recorder because they don't need it. Same as the DVD Drive.

  • 02-23-2009 3:10 PM In reply to

    • kallasr
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    That why Loewe made it an optional extra...

    Ralf

    My Beo: Beosound 3000, Beolab 4000, Beo 4 DVD,  Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000, Beovox S45.2 with Stands, Beosystem 7000 black with Beolink 7000, Beolink 1000, F1000 (3 cubes), Beovox 5000, Beovox 3000, Attyca 1.

  • 02-23-2009 3:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Loewe commercial

    mbee:

    MGBGTV8:
    also bno have always been a serious hifi maker the biggest specialist in the world and 3rd largest speaker manufacturer at present so they must do something right

    Who are the first 2???

    1. Bose

    2. Harman Group (Infinity, JBL, HK)

    3. Bang & Olufsen

     

    And I'll again repeat my opinion that any sniping between B&O & Loewe misses the point. The audience has the same sensibilities in general and are oriented toward products with character that are easy to use and perform well. Anyone who would buy a Loewe over a B&O deserves more praise for choosing a unique offering than derision for not seeing certain particular values in B&O. As a brand we should be so lucky that more people would pass up on thoughtless commodity products to pay more for well considered, well built options!

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 02-23-2009 9:13 PM In reply to

    • Dave
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    Maybe some people should go to loeworld then! Laughing

    “Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”

    Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.

     

     

  • 02-24-2009 2:30 AM In reply to

    Re: Loewe commercial

    I sigh! I feel I’m now too old to really know what is what. Gaw’d – I’m just like my parents were 20 years ago.

     

    I mean, look at the specs…of this Loewe compared to my BV7-40:-

     

     

    LO

    B&O

     

    LCD size

    52

    40

    Cant fit anything bigger than a 42" in my lounge

    Built-in HD Recorder

    Yes

    No

    If I watch Sky - too many repeats - why do I need this? EPG. See Sky

     

     

     

    If I watch Freeview - too many repeats - why need do I need this? EPG. See Freeview.

    Double tuner /PIP/PAP

    Yes

    No

    Use the remote to flick channels. Man thing, tried and tested. Works. Period!

    Built-in DVB-T/DVB-S/DVB-C

    Yes

    Yes

    Have SD Freeview with DVB-T

    (Nothing else given to require more)

     

    No

    No

    No manufacturer does internal Sky or Sky HD. Forced to use given STB

    Built-in digital radio receiver

    Yes

    Yes

    Use DVB-T Freeview. Use BeoSound 5 with Masterlink. Seemless on both.

    Built-in media player

    No

    Yes

    I think I still prefer the BeoSound 5 for that.

    100 Hz technology

    No

    Yes

    Well I've had my BV7-40 for 3 years now. Was not available then.

     

    At the party or not, in the UK most of us have a choice essentially of Sky or Freeview. There are no integral cards for Sky by ANY TV manufacturer and Freeview is limited to SD at the moment (although HD channels may be coming soon).

     

    Further, with the constant daily, weekly and monthly repeats of all the content, I’m not sure why anyone needs to record anything.  Also, how smart is it to buy a BR module with a DVD recording facility. I mean… buy high-def playback and SD recording???

     

    I won’t even get started on the materials of construction.

     

     

    Whilst I’m on a rant-march, lets look at a few other comparisons. And I apologise for comparing them all to a BV7-40.

     

    1.       The Avant. Great machine, but sorry, the BeoLab 7 in terms of sound just blows it clean away.

    2.       The Avant. Great Machine, but sorry, the DVD and it’s operating system is practically the same in the BV7.

    3.       The Avant. Great machine, ditto the sound card.

    4.       The Avant. Great machine, great picture, best of all time. But have most of us moved on to larger screens? I mean, does that DVD movie in 16:9 really look cinematic in the Avant or what? Sadly no.

     

    So ultimately, I’m still left with my blinkered opinions, more money than sense and a crappy/useless BV7-40.  I am sure picture technology will develop and that B&O will play a little catch-up for a more reasonable price, but once again, I see a vast array of so-called features and technology bundled into a box which is now challenging the size of my main living room wall in my 2-up, 2-down and that thanks to a bi-poly of Sky and Freeview, I have little need for anything else. Have I missed anything really useful or meaningful?

     

    Good day to you all,

     

    10%

     

     

     

  • 02-24-2009 3:01 AM In reply to

    • pehre
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    "the integration of DVB-S2 (hi def sat tv), Recorder, EPG is perfect! You can even update your TV software via USB stick yourself...."

    All this is true and you are not mention the WLAN connection -, but the B&O design is much better

  • 02-24-2009 3:16 AM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    People will make their own choice between features and design (or in the case of Loewe maybe a slight compromise). Of course design differs with each model, it is entirely feasible that the next Loewe will be drop dead gorgeous leaving only the B&O system integration as a usp.

    Lets all hope the BV7 MKIV lifts the bar considerably.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 02-24-2009 11:06 AM In reply to

    • Affineur
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    "Further, with the constant daily, weekly and monthly repeats of all the content, I’m not sure why anyone needs to record anything."

    10%,

    I use the recording facility (in my case Tivo) to record content for plyback when I want to watch, not according to a schedule. I can no longer watch live TV. Given the recorded, commercial-free alternative, it is much too painful.

    Seek simplicity and distrust it. Alfred North Whitehead
  • 02-24-2009 11:18 AM In reply to

    Re: Loewe commercial

    Affineur:

    I use the recording facility (in my case Tivo) to record content for plyback when I want to watch, not according to a schedule. I can no longer watch live TV. Given the recorded, commercial-free alternative, it is much too painful.

    Seconded. I have now had for more than three years a Linux-based DVB recorder. I no more watch *anything* live from commercial channels. Even if I'm at home when a movie starts, I just click to record it and start 15-30 minutes later, skipping over all the commercials. That's 15 minutes of my life saved for better purposes (of course, more would be saved if I skipped those crappy movies entirely, but...).

    In the age of digital broadcasts, the recording is technically an easy task, and quality degradation is a round zero. I don't think there's much excuse for the lack of this feature in a high-end TV set.

    -mika

  • 02-24-2009 12:54 PM In reply to

    Re: Loewe commercial

    i made a vow not to comment on beo-tv threads anymore...

    but the concept of a dvr (built in or otherwise) is the greatest thing in human history since the wheel.

    • B&o bottle opener
  • 02-24-2009 2:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Loewe commercial

      This looks good, doesn't it?

    The new Loewe Reference 52

  • 02-24-2009 3:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Loewe commercial

    Could alos be Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba or Philips. They all look similar. Could never be comnpared to B&O though. What B&O speaker looks like that? The only thing in that picture that looks vaguely copmparable to my setup is the table, that looks like my Acacia table. That's it. So pleased for everyone that has bought a Loewe but thank God I haven't. I want to be different, surely the whole essence of buying into B&O. Apparently not for many, but definitly for me.

    Simon.

  • 02-24-2009 4:13 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    I would disagree - it looks distinctive and is impressively featured (see attached).

    Is it as nice as a BV7 - that's a personal opinion, is it a challenger in the market - I would think so unless the MKIV is something really special.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 02-24-2009 4:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Loewe commercial

    Actually I think the Loewe Reference system has a style which could have easily been adopted by B&O - the speaker design in particular is beautifully simple and inspired.

    Agree with 10% about the DVB-S - in the UK the only real choice in satellite is Sky which cannot be built in and if you have Sky, you might as well have Sky+ which gives you seamless recording with the B&O remote including link rooms. However don't agree about the twin tuners - this is a basic requirement. I also want the DVB-T to have a separate button to the Satellite channel. Having V.Aux in the list is not an alternative.

    I would still buy B&O myself simply because I refuse to have more remotes hanging around. Interested in the BV10 from the sounds of it. To be honest, I am not interested in being different though. I buy what I like - if it is different, so be it. If it is just the same as everyone else, I am equally happy.Anyone who bought a Beosound 6 thinking it was superior to an iPod was only fooling themselves. I buy it for my enjoyment, not to impress anyone. As they say, B&O - for those who value performance and design over price. To qualify, the product has to offer both design and performance. The early LCDs offered neither in my view. Hence I would not buy them. The plasmas are just a bit too pricey.

    By the way, welcome back the artist formerly known as Bingo. I very much welcome your return and look forward to probably many happy disagreements but also a welcome healthy critique of the current range.

  • 02-24-2009 4:29 PM In reply to

    • KibitoCH
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    That picture is rendered. You can't tell what materials are used on it. You don't see how well the sideboard operates. I was truely impressed with the new B&O cabinets they are very well done.

    On the other hand, i don't really know alot of Loewe. Just seen em on Shows several times, they failed to impress me though.

    EDIT: Had to edit the Brandname befor i get another spelling error reply Stick out tongue

  • 02-24-2009 4:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Loewe commercial

    Groentje :

      This looks good, doesn't it?

    The new Loewe Reference 52

    The gear looks great! Of course, like Simon and others, probably doesn't meet my personal standards, but if Loewe were in the US I would probably open a Loewe Gallery! It's great to have another touchstone in AV electronics to compare my brand to. I'm sure other B&O dealers would love to sell against a Loewe system rather than a Sony. Loewe, like B&O, have taken responsibility for the operation of an entire ecosystem of products and seem to offer good support to customers. Their industrial design seems to be on par with B&O and Brionvega if not their fit & finish and their developing distribution model should only strengthen them.

    To my thinking, a brand like BMW would be worse off selling against a Toyota or a Hyundai (faithful appliances) versus a VW where most would acknowledge is a more inspiring breed of vehicle. A VW owner and potential BMW customer would only have to be oriented to specific upgrades in performance, fit & finish, materials, service, etc. whereas a Toyota owner looking at a BMW may well have to be oriented to the very notion of a car as more than a means of transport. Hopefully the analogy makes sense, whatever your feelings about the brands referenced, but it's definitely my experience as a retailer that I am able to have more productive conversations with clients who look for "lifestyle" elements in their purchases versus those who shop exclusively on the limited concept of "value" and seek the minimum solution necessary to perform a task.\

    By the way, Loewe might have the only website worse than B&O, so can someone tell me what technology those speakers are and what the touch panel is used for? 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 02-24-2009 4:37 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: Loewe commercial

    It'll be interesting to hear the electrostatic speakers too.

    @Trip - there's a pdf attached to my earlier post that may answer some of your questions.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 02-24-2009 4:37 PM In reply to

    Re: Loewe commercial

    Sometimes get the impression we're discussing religion here, and not A/V!

    The Loewe sets are great lookers, and they have (of course) reached for their own design. Loewe is a serious competitor to B&O because they don't have the legacy shackle of ML to defend, which means they can leap straight to the next generation of interlink, which they've done.

    Here's a non-rendered image, and an impression.

    And - it's only a tv with speakers - it's not the second coming! Big Smile

     


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