Hi everybody

I am new at this forum, though I have been reading it for several years. Since I just have bought our new equipment and has become a new customer at B&O, I thought some of you might be interested to know how we reasoned when we chose the equipment. Unfortunately, this post is a bit long but...

For several years, I have read this forum, visited shops listened to speakers, tried out players, compared TVs and I have of course been reading about Audio/Video. I must admit that I have spent some more time at B&O stores than at other stores. My background in A/V is a very good stereo in a living room (not high end) and a dedicated home cinema room with a LCD projector. I thought that DLP was actually better when we changed the projector a couple of years ago, but I could not stand the rainbow artefact. In the home cinema room there is of course a quite good setup of speakers, DVD player, receiver, DVB module. This home cinema is the place when we want to see something more seriously. The picture is about 90" and gives a very good cinema feeling. It is a popular place and much loved (specially by the kids). I have been tweaking and calibrating a lot in the home cinema setup and has always been very careful with the A/V signal protocols. Enough about the old equipment.

From the beginning, we wanted  a system that could be expandable and play Audio/Video in many rooms, a multi room system. Since B&O was marketing in this area, I learned a bit about B&O. We visited a store several years ago and realised that some speakers and all the players were very beautiful. We also looked at this BV 7-32 and we thought wow, it sounds very good. After the salesman mentioned the price, it was never an option (just ridiculous)). After a while I had a deeper technical discussion with a shop and almost laughed to death when I heard that the protocol used for the video in the link rooms was analogue RF. I mentioned something about 20th century technique compared to the 1950 (or something). No way we were going to invest something in the 20 th century linked with a totally outdated technique. This was years after the time when even S-VHS was becomming unacceptable for projectors and the next step was RGB or component. I was running our projector with RGB and knew how huge the difference was compared to S-VHS. The digital age was here and I was looking for a system based on HDMI. We had to start over and were becoming aware that there did not exist any realistic/useful system for Video multiroom. So we skipped the video part and concentrated on the audio only. We looked at Sonos and B&O. First we decided to combine Sonos and B&O speakers because we did not think that B&O was enough due to the problem with only one source in the link plus the bad beo 4 remote without two way. I heard about the Beosound 5 in this forum and postponed the whole project until we knew what that was. This wait was the best thing that we could have done. We hoped for Beosound 5 for long, but immediately after finding out what Beosound 5 was in the autumn, we decided to skip it. We found a fantasic B&O store and it was not a dedicated B&O store (I think it is called B1store). They had both technical skills and the ability to find out about Beosound 5 plus very good attitude. Further, they had a store where it was possible to listen seriously to the speakers, which I am afraid is not the case with many B1 stores. The long wait gave us another player which was Apple. When they released their remote software for Iphone/touch, I immediately realised that we do not longer need Sonos in our setup (or Beosound 5).

The equipment we wanted (for a start) was a multi room stereo, one pair of speakers in the living room (main room), one pair of speakers in the dining room/kitchen and one TV in the kitchen. The TV in the main room is yet to be decided, but the equipment we had installed was the following:

Main unit: Beosound 4 connected to Beoport-Imac-Ipodtoch.

Speaker (main room): Beolab 8000.

Speaker (diningroom/kitchen): Beolab 3.

TV (kitchen): Loewe Connect Media 32 (white)

Remote controls: One Beo 4 and one Philips Prestigo SRU 8015 (and of course the excellent Ipod touch)

Some comments on the choice of our equipment (just according to my ears/eyes):

Beosound 4: There was no point in buying Beocenter 2 with just DVD and RGB, if it was blue ray maybe... Beosound 3200 to expensive and no use for the HD. We thought a long about Beosound 9000 just because its beauty and digital out but finally felt that it was unnecessary (for now). Beosound 4 was the choice. It was even better than we thought. It can actually play two sources- one in the main room and another in the link room. When we found that out we were very glad that we picked Beosound 4. Beosound 9000 could not do that according to our installer. It is also good looking and not that expensive.

Beolab 8000: The most beautiful speaker ever made (by far). It is actually the only loadspeaker in the world that I would call really good looking. The sound of this one have been known for years. It is difficult to compare B&O speaker with other due to the active construction but I would say having listened to 8000 in many environments and other speakers in the price range that maybe you will have to pay maybe?? 500 euro extra for the look. That is very good I believe. Maybe we will buy a sub in a couple of years, who knows, but it is really not neccessary for music.

Beolab 3: Not so good looking but very sexy... hrm. We needed a small speaker in the kitchen with maximum performance. Everyone that has listened to Beolab 3 knows that this will do it by far. It is totally overkill and I am embarrased to use such a fine speaker in the kitchen/diningroom. Well, some times you must do some crazy things. The distance between the two speakers is just above 4 m which is probably a bit too long. I am experimenting with the direction of the speakers right now. Despite a difficult environment, I do not think any speaker in the world would sound better in this setup. During several test listening to this speaker and comparing to Beolab 8000, I would say that Beolab 3 definitely does not reach the level of Beolab 8000, but not far behind. Therefore the price tag is justified (for us).

Loewe Connect Media 32: He, he, I have read what some of you feel about Loewe. Remember we were also looking for a multi room video system that was not in sight until Media players come out. I looked at Apple TV but found no really use for it (to limited). Suddenly, Loewe was kind enough to offer an inbuilt media player inside a TV that can deal with most relevant formats for music/pictures/video including MPEG4. This means, in case some of you are not aware, that you also have a DVD player in the deal. Maybe even a Blue Ray player (I do not know yet). The TV is a technical monster and among other things includes DVB-T/S/C. It is also very easy to handle as a TV. However, do not ask me about the media player since I have not tried it very much yet (lack of time). The digital connection to the Loewe is Ethernet (in our case) but it even supports WLAN. The picture is like B&O- not Pioneer but very good or should I say "Close enough for rock´n roll". We considered a cheap kitchen TV but could not resist Loewe Connect. Design is also very good and we think it competes with B&O TV.

Remote controls: This one caused a lot of thinking and for now, I think there is nothing that is really good. Since B&O only had Beo 4 with a user interface that seems to be designed in the seventies, we decided that we should at least try a universal remote also (we needed two remotes). The Beo 4 is not a good piece. If you are a B&O beginner this remote is completely unintelligible. I remember the first time I tried it in a store and realised that I could not even adjust the volume without asking for help. This one is what I call a "must have manual device", meaning that the interface is preventing you from figuring out how it is working. If you want to do something with this one, you must thoroughly read the manual. Have B&O missed the menu system in modern cell phones like Sony Ericsson (or Iphone if you like)? We also bought a Philips Prestigo universal remote. We took a chance here, the dealer had not tested this one, but I got the information from this excellent forum that it should work... It really did. This one can all our family use without a manual, there are standard buttons and if something is missing, it is easy for me to learn it. Besides, it can control everything else. This one is way better than Beo 4, I would almost go as far as recommend people to just buy this one and skip Beo 4. I do not know if that is possible, there are maybe settings where Beo 4 is a must. The B&O systems really need a far better remote for their fine equipments and of course two way. The best would be if Ipod touch could send IR...

During the process before buying our equipment we listened/looked at the following:

Remember, still just our opinions.

Beolab 4: This is not a HiFi speaker. It sounds not much better than our lap top. Shame on you B&O. This piece costs about 1000 euro. Not good for anything. Not very good looking.

Beolab 4000: Ok, It is a HiFi speaker. However, at this price about 2000 euro, the demands are much much higher. Not by far worth this price. Looks ok in silver/gold.

Beolab 6000: I visited a friend that had bought some B&O CRT TV with DVD built in and this speaker. I listened and wondered what was wrong with this setup. The speaker costs about 2500 euro and sounded like a HiFi bought on a gasoline station on a sale. I could not figure out what was wrong. I just presumed that this speaker would sound great. After listening to this speaker in the shop and asking what was wrong once again, I realised that this speaker is as bad as I heard it the first time. The very good staff in the shop was almost embarrased and thought that it would be better to remove this speaker from the product line than beolab 1 (I agreed). I would buy it for 400 euro at most. Almost a price scandal...

Beolab 9: Well, I have listened to this a couple of time. Unfortunately not enough for a comment other than it sounded very good, which I am pretty sure about. Too bad it is too expensive (for us). Not very good looking.

Beolab 5: I do not dare to listen to this. I know its quality. However, I brought a CD to a shop with a track full of deep bass that I use to get an idea how speakers is capable of dealing with deep bass. The shop found the track so interesting, so he decided to play it on their Beolab 5 and I was in the room... It sure could handle deep bass... We found this design exciting (or something). Sometimes it is nice with size and really different look. Lucky you, who can consider this monster.

Beosound 5: Thanks to this piece, we waited and got the same function in an Ipod touch (for a fraction of the price). The difference is that we can carry around our piece and do a lots of other things. If Beosound 5 would reached the market in 2004, maybe we would find it exiting. No, actually we would not. The reason is that there is no CD player and the computer music belongs in the computer world, not in a player. I have difficulties to understand which market B&O is aiming for with this product. I mean the "old fashioned" customer stock would probably want a CD player (maybe they do not even care about mp3 or computers). The younger people have already music in their computer and just want a way to get it to the speakers. I do not think they have need for a player that is trying to be a computer. I do not feel so much about its design, I have just seen it a couple of times.

Beovisions: We just needed a good looking TV with a descent picture and sound. It was not supposed to be a home cinema setup (remember the projector). We could never understand the sky high prices from B&O here, sorry. We hoped a little for Beovision 8, but when revealed in Sweden with no longer any analogue boadcastings and only one hdmi (and no media player) e t c, it was never an option. Further, the price was still sky high and it did not stand a chance against e.g. Loewe Connect.

Summary and the future then. We are more than satisfied with our equipment from B&O and the very good installers from the shop. It will indeed be interesting to see how B&O will meet the demands in the new digital world. I think they have quite a lot to catch up here. Beosound 5 hopefully is not their best shot. In a few year, we will hopefully build a "real home cinema". Let us hope that B&O have something to offer when it is time. Right now, I am afraid that Loewe looks like the winner again with their lovely media center built on an open platform with standard connections. One thing I am not  very satisfied with was that it did not seem to be possible to get the sound from the Loewe to the B&O speakers in the kitchen without going to the Aux on Beosound 4. I think B&O would benefit with fixing a hub or something so that more external equipment can be connected and controlled. Looks rather poor in this area now,  no remotes that can control external equipment and no two way. You can not however resist their speakers...

Have a good day

Clakke

Hi again

I just saw a thread that immediately got my attention.

I understand the post I wrote above is way to long, sorry, but in the end, I mention a hub for connecting external equipment. Could the following thread be about the thing I want?

http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/t/24064.aspx

B R

Clakke 

Welcome to Beoworld Clakke

Great first post and really, really interesting to get an insight into the mind of a current customer. I wonder though why when you're so aware of the movement in video technology (you mention S-VHS etc. in your post) that you went and bought a two-way speaker that's design is now approaching twenty years old in the Beolab 8000?? Sure, they look nice, but you've got to listen to them too!

Welcome to Beoworld. I agree with a lot of what you say - the Beolab 4 is a joke, the distribution of video via RF is stone age and I wouldn't listen to Beolab 5s either as they simply outclass the rest of the range by a county mile.

I would take issue with the Beo4 which is a very intuitive remote - once you get past the LIST system. I also think BL3s are better than BL8000s though I do agree that the 8000s are the most beautiful speaker made.

I use Beolink 1000s and Beo4s and also the iPod Touch which together let me use my system just the way I wish.

I don't think the device mentioned is going to be the answer you are looking for!

Welcome to Beoworld from me too. I don't think your first post was to long, and I read it with interest.  Thanks for taking the time to share your opinions.

I agree with so much you had to say, though I have no experience with Loewe apart from agreeing that they look nice.
Like Peter, I am surprised at your thoughts on the Beo4 remote. Yes it was designed donkey's years ago but, once you get used to it, it is a joy to use. Most other remotes seems tacky, plasticky and lacking in range.
You'll know, as you have been reading this forum, that we all hoped the new Beo5 was going to be two-way, but alas B&O disappointed us.  You do right to use your ipod or iphone as a remote. Many of our staunch B&O supporters are using them. (Wake up B&O!)
Thanks again for the great post, and we look forward to hearing from you again.

Andy T.

Very interesting reading, I say!

The post wasn't too long.

j0hnbarker:

Welcome to Beoworld Clakke

Great first post and really, really interesting to get an insight into the mind of a current customer. I wonder though why when you're so aware of the movement in video technology (you mention S-VHS etc. in your post) that you went and bought a two-way speaker that's design is now approaching twenty years old in the Beolab 8000?? Sure, they look nice, but you've got to listen to them too!

Thank you

I am glad you found it interesting.

Oh, I can assure you that I have listened to Beoloab 8000 quite a lot for a some years before before we decided. The Beolab 8000 decision is just a function of price/quality/look/feel and my personal impression. I have listened to non B&O speakers that sound just as good or even better for a less amount of money, no doubt about that. However as I wrote, the other speakers have not been that much cheaper.

It also seems quite clear that a good speaker can age with pride in opposite to Video protocols or heavy digital electronics like a DVD player. There are several examples on good old speakers that still are going strong. I believe that B&O´s example is Penta, though I have not had the opportunity to listen to them. They seem to be rare in the stores.

B R

Clakke

Clakke:

It also seems quite clear that a good speaker can age with pride in opposite to Video protocols or heavy digital electronics like a DVD player. There are several examples on good old speakers that still are going strong. I believe that B&O´s example is Penta, though I have not had the opportunity to listen to them. They seem to be rare in the stores.

They're rare because they're no longer in production, but you're quite right about them being excellent speakers. Much better than the 8000 in my opinion, but then you'd have to take your chances on the second-hand market and I appreciate this is something you might not want to do. 

As long as you're happy then that's the main thing :)

Clakke's got it spot on with the 8000 - I was never quite sure what all the fuss was about, but actually, it's simply the perfect blend of function, form, and build. While the way it performs and looks is not to my personal taste, there is no doubt that it is a stunningly good looking speaker and it does sound very good indeed.

Peter :

Welcome to Beoworld. I agree with a lot of what you say - the Beolab 4 is a joke, the distribution of video via RF is stone age and I wouldn't listen to Beolab 5s either as they simply outclass the rest of the range by a county mile.

I would take issue with the Beo4 which is a very intuitive remote - once you get past the LIST system. I also think BL3s are better than BL8000s though I do agree that the 8000s are the most beautiful speaker made.

I use Beolink 1000s and Beo4s and also the iPod Touch which together let me use my system just the way I wish.

I don't think the device mentioned is going to be the answer you are looking for!

Thank you Peter

First my compliments to your knowledge, experience and manners in this forum. I have enjoyed many of your posts during some years now.

Concerning the Beo 4. I agree of course that you will learn Beo 4 in time, but it does not just come by itself or should I say without the manual. If I stick a Beo 4 in the hands of a friend that has never seen a B&O system before, he/she will not be able to do much. If I however do the same with the Prestigo, he/she will be able to do quite a lot (e.g. adjust the volume). You also have the iPod Touch, now this is the way a user interface should be designed. I must also say that I have not read the manual for the Prestigo and can do more with it than with Beo 4.

The best thing in the kitchen is the link eye. It is the most used remote because we can always find it. Maybe B&O should skip the remotes and have small lcd screens with controllers on the walls instead.

With deepest respect

Clakke

Jandyt:

Welcome to Beoworld from me too. I don't think your first post was to long, and I read it with interest.  Thanks for taking the time to share your opinions.

I agree with so much you had to say, though I have no experience with Loewe apart from agreeing that they look nice.
Like Peter, I am surprised at your thoughts on the Beo4 remote. Yes it was designed donkey's years ago but, once you get used to it, it is a joy to use. Most other remotes seems tacky, plasticky and lacking in range.
You'll know, as you have been reading this forum, that we all hoped the new Beo5 was going to be two-way, but alas B&O disappointed us.  You do right to use your ipod or iphone as a remote. Many of our staunch B&O supporters are using them. (Wake up B&O!)
Thanks again for the great post, and we look forward to hearing from you again.

Andy T.

Thank you Andy

I am reading Sir Winston Churchill´s "The second world war" right now. See if I can keep up with your humour after that .

I developed further my opinions about Beo 4 when I answered Peter. Speaking about Loewe, I can tell you that I have got the Media player to work for photos now. This is a really nice TV. You just tell Twonky Media which part of your HD you want to share and then your pictures is just some clicks away with the remote. I can also listen to music on the TV, but it seems quite unnecessary with B&O in the room.

Good that you mentioned Beo 5. I forgot that one. All I can say is that we skipped it since it was not able to solve the problem with digital music in a link room (lack of two way again). Totally agree with you.

B R

Clakke

Clakke:

I am reading Sir Winston Churchill´s "The second world war" right now. See if I can keep up with your humour after that .

Clakke - randomly I am reading this too. Are you reading the abridged single-volume version, or the original multiple-volume edition?

j0hnbarker:

Clakke:

I am reading Sir Winston Churchill´s "The second world war" right now. See if I can keep up with your humour after that .

Clakke - randomly I am reading this too. Are you reading the abridged single-volume version, or the original multiple-volume edition?

I did not know there were two versions. I am reading the version that consists of six books with about 800 pages per book. It is old used books that my father bought for me in a second-hand bookshop.

Clakke

Clakke:

I did not know there were two versions. I am reading the version that consists of six books with about 800 pages per book. It is old used books that my father bought for me in a second-hand bookshop.

Clakke

Yep - the abridged version was put together by Churchill himself, and is a single volume of about 900+ pages!

Clakke:

Peter :

Welcome to Beoworld. I agree with a lot of what you say - the Beolab 4 is a joke, the distribution of video via RF is stone age and I wouldn't listen to Beolab 5s either as they simply outclass the rest of the range by a county mile.

I would take issue with the Beo4 which is a very intuitive remote - once you get past the LIST system. I also think BL3s are better than BL8000s though I do agree that the 8000s are the most beautiful speaker made.

I use Beolink 1000s and Beo4s and also the iPod Touch which together let me use my system just the way I wish.

I don't think the device mentioned is going to be the answer you are looking for!

Thank you Peter

First my compliments to your knowledge, experience and manners in this forum. I have enjoyed many of your posts during some years now.

Concerning the Beo 4. I agree of course that you will learn Beo 4 in time, but it does not just come by itself or should I say without the manual. If I stick a Beo 4 in the hands of a friend that has never seen a B&O system before, he/she will not be able to do much. If I however do the same with the Prestigo, he/she will be able to do quite a lot (e.g. adjust the volume). You also have the iPod Touch, now this is the way a user interface should be designed. I must also say that I have not read the manual for the Prestigo and can do more with it than with Beo 4.

The best thing in the kitchen is the link eye. It is the most used remote because we can always find it. Maybe B&O should skip the remotes and have small lcd screens with controllers on the walls instead.

With deepest respect

Clakke

Hi

I forgot something here. I saw that you consider Beolab 3 to be better than Beolab 8000. I have seen some threads at this forum in the subject Beolab 8000 vs Beolab 3. Opinions seems to differ. I just want to point out that in the different setups I have listened to them, beolab 8000 has come out as the winner. However, I can definitely imagine setups where Beolab 3 is the better one, they are quite close. Maybe it is the cold climate in Sweden that makes Beolab 8000 the winner?

Have a nice friday

Clakke