Hello to all from Harrison, Arkansas.

 I'm trying to get a pair of RL 140s up to speed. Just completed surround replacement on all 4 woofers. Testing proved the woofers to be working quite well, but one speaker was dull sounding overall. Investigation determined that one tweeter, even though sound quality seemed good, had approx. 50% of the output of the other tweeter. DC resistance of both voice coils is 6.1 ohm. There are no apparent signs of damage on either tweeter.

Due to the rarity of B&O items in the U.S. I think chances of finding a used tweeter for replacement are very slim. Accordingly Replacing the OEM tweeters with a suitable type more readily available seems to be my best option. 

Any information that the Beowoeld community could provide about the OEM tweeters, such as efficiency & power handling ratings, crossover frequency point, etc. would of course be very helpful in choosing replacements and greatly appreciated.

I had never even heard of B&O before these RL 140s came up for sale in a town not far away but I was intrigued enough by the styling and the hope of superior sound quality the few reviews I could find spoke of to take them on as a project. I look forward to hearing them at their full potential as a pair. The speaker with the good tweeter was impressive enough by itself to heighten my anticipation.

here are some links re: rl140

one

two

three

four

do a search here -lots more to read!

you might want to look into re-doing the caps while you are in there.

welcome to beoworld!

@burantek

all the links you have posted are about refoaming the woofers and replacing the front clothes.

none of these topics are about tweeters, so you missed the point i think.

@mazeppa

the tweeters were made by SEAS in norway.

i have the same problem and still search for good replacement tweeters (close to orginal spec)

maybe someone knows which tweeters fit the RL140s ??

root:

@burantek

all the links you have posted are about refoaming the woofers and replacing the front clothes.

none of these topics are about tweeters, so you missed the point i think.

sorry, i thought MY POINT was simple...

use the SEARCH... as you might find a lot of info regarding the rl140's -not just their tweeters.

it sounded to me like the OP might have further interest in reading up on them as they (and b&o in general) are clearly new to him.

my apologies to the OP for misleading him...

buratenk - Thanks for the welcome and links to RL 140 info. Do have cap replacement on my mind, I listed the values of all the electrolytics while I was in there. Believe I'll see if I can get this tweeter thing resolved first, though.

root - SEAS product, eh? I'll get the information off my afflicted driver and see if I can get the needed data from them. Will also wait a few days and see if any other Beo-bro.s can help us out before I start trial and error experimentation. I just happen to have a pair of kit speakers I built that have 6 ohm DC resistance V.C. silk domes in them I could pull and try in the RL 140s.....

Will post developments as they occur.

Do you have one underachieving tweeter, or two?

regarding the cap replacement: i would recommend you to change all the caps.
member dillen can supply you with a cap kit, its not that expensive and they are easy to fit.
i have no soldering skills and it took me 30 minutes...

regarding the tweeters: you could try to contact the SEAS dealer for your area: www.seas.no
tried it with the german distributor, he wrote: please ask it on a forum.
maybe the american dealers are more helpful..

my tweeters are both not working.

a german company called klangmeister offered my to try to fix them for EUR 35.-- / piece
they said there is a chance to fix if only the voltage feeder is demolished, if there is further damage they are not able to repair it. i did not even sent them the tweeters, i think this service is overpriced.

Will heed your counsel and replace all cap.s if I can get something figured out on this tweeter deal. Located the SEAS site, but their listings did not contain the H358 model from my RL 140. Dealers have no more info than is available on the internet, apparently.

By all accounts, dome weeters are generally considered to be very difficult to repair if it can be done at all. So, the search for a viable substitute begins. I'll let you know how it goes.

Have you measured the DC resistance of the voice coils on your tweeters? If so, what were the results? Most likely 0 ohms (open coils) as they are'nt working at all, but I'm curious to know.

Hi

Are you sure that there are no problems in the crossover board like bad caps. Both tweeters have the same DC resistance so there is no problem with the voice coil. Try to replace the tweeter from the other speaker to see if its still low output. If it is the problem must be in the crossover board.

/Fredrik

Fredrik,

That's a good idea and I will try it. What I had considered to be the defintitive test was to remove both tweeters and listen to them individually at my bench. Trying both tweeters w/both crossover networks will help ensure I'm not fooling myself.

Thank you,

Stephen

Swapped tweeters and low output still with the same driver. Looked long and hard, high and low for an OEM replacement to no avail. About 6 months ago I found some Peerless 1" silk dome tweeters (#812687) that seemed to be a good electrical and size match They're made in Denmark, no less.

Finally got around to installing them this morning. Took a little bit of filing on the mounting flanges to get them in, but nothing drastic. Hooked those babies up on my garage system for a test drive and was very pleased with the result of my experiment in driver substitution. Walked away from them for a few hours to ensure I wasn't "hearing" my wish for a good result. Came back, listened to my main system for a bit. then put the RL-140s in place of my main speakers and I remain impressed. Still working on getting them in their optimal position on the floor stands. Started out horizontal, moved them to vertical with the tweeters both on the inside is noticeably better. I'm excited about the potentail of these speakers. They don't get much favorable press here in the States, but I'm starting to like mine very much.

Next step is to recap them. I'm looking for a schematic of the crossover circuit. I noted the values while I was in there, but the type of capacitor I use can vary with application in circuit. Poly in series with signal path, bipolar electrolytic in parallel to voice coil (typically woofers).            

Can any of my Beo Bro.s help me out with an RL-140 crossover schematic?

BTW, my main speakers are Klipsch Chorus that have been recapped, the transformer and tweeter diaphrams upgraded. They are very, very good. The RL-140s compare surprisingly well to them.

Congratulations Stephen - it's always a little hit and miss when you replace drivers with new types with no knowledge on the parameters of the old ones, but apparently you've found a good match.

The service manual is on site for silver and gold members - but why not just replace all electrolytics with foil types? They are not that much more expensive, and potentially sound better when new... and definitely better when the bipolars have had time to age.

I used Intertechik MKT caps for my RL60.2's and Pentas, and was very happy with the result. It might be easier to find Solen caps over there (they are made in Canada I suppose).

Tournedos,

          You give sound capacitor advice. I have used foil types almost exclusively for recapping speakers in the past. The sole exception being once using bipolar electrolytic in parallel to the woofers in my Klipsch Chorus. I didn't think of it, the kit I used from a well known Klipsch shop that provided it for that purpose said there was no sonic benefit to justify the additional cost in that application. I took their word for it, and the result was excellent.

         That being said, sonically there's no reason not to use foil cap.s for bypassing voice coils either. It boils down to two considerations:

1. Cost - In the larger ratings (as are typically seen bypassing woofer coils) bi-polars are much less expensive. If that were the only factor, I'd go with foil unless I were absolutely sure the application was to bypass of the voice coil.

2. Size - I'm not familiar with your RL60.2's or Pentas, is usable interior space available in them? Mounting large capacitors in the RL-140 is not a task I relish being able to accomplish effectively. Very tight in there. This tips the scale in favor of bi-polar electrolytics to be used in bypass applications. Now to go get the schematic and make sure......

         Are you a native Finn? You're English is excellent, better than that employed by many Americans to be sure. I'm presently trying to learn Italian, which is giving me a greater appreciation of the difficulty in actually mastering a second language.

Yes, the MKTs cost a bit more, but I thought since these speakers were keepers, I'll only need to pay it once (and never do again!). There aren't that many caps in the RL crossovers anyway.

I used 160V caps; the higher voltage ratings would be unnecessary, and physically much larger. There was plenty of space in the RLs. The Penta crossovers are much more complex, and contain two pieces of 68uF caps each - those are indeed fat, and you need to cut away a small piece of an internal support in the base plate to make them fit.

The RL's improved surprisingly much, it wouldn't take a trained ear to notice the difference. Almost like different speakers. The effect on the Pentas was much more subtle, but they may have been less tired to begin with.

Thanks for the compliments. Finnish is actually quite an easy language, even the kids speak it over here

tournedos:

Thanks for the compliments. Finnish is actually quite an easy language, even the kids speak it over here

...and I thought your excellent language skills came from reading Cadillac manuals!

tournedos:

Thanks for the compliments. Finnish is actually quite an easy language, even the kids speak it over here

Maybe I should try Finnish instead of Italian.

burantek:

...and I thought your excellent language skills came from reading Cadillac manuals!

Tournedos, Do you have a Cadillac to go with the manauls? Please don't tell me you've got a red '59 Coupe DeVille convertible.

Stephen V Franco:

Tournedos, Do you have a Cadillac to go with the manauls? Please don't tell me you've got a red '59 Coupe DeVille convertible.

Pretty remarkably close... I'll let Mika take over from here!

Stephen V Franco:

Tournedos, Do you have a Cadillac to go with the manauls? Please don't tell me you've got a red '59 Coupe DeVille convertible.

'62 Coupe de Ville in Olympic White, but close enough

A beautiful example of that glorious American style of excess and exuberance so freely exercised in the late 50's/early60's. That Caddy has got to be the baddest ride in all of Finland.

Speaking of which, how did that thing wind up there? That's got to be a good story.

Well they are not that uncommon over here - Cadillac is actually the 36th most common car make in Finland (2200 vehicles, more than Rover for example!), and a large part of them are oldtimers.  A lot were imported after the car tax changed so that you didn't have to pay it according to a similar new car...

As far as I know this car was bought new by a pilot who liked it enough to drive it until at least 1975 (there is a faded Western Airlines parking sticker on the front bumper). I have an old registration by the same guy from 1984, it may have been put to storage after that. The car stayed in CA until it was imported here in 1991, and I bought it from those people in 1997. The interior has been restored at some time already in the States and everything on the car is correct and in place, which is a little rare around here - will need minor rust work and a new paint in the near future, though. Kinda stuck on me, I don't think I'll ever sell it!

Obviously I expected your Caddy to be a bit more of a rarity in Finland. A very nice ride at any rate. Vintage SoCal (if that's where it came from) cars are prized as the climate is very dry, and the rust cancer not so prevalent in them. That car tax must have been a killer if relief from it makes shipping something like a '62 deVille economically viable.

The afore mentioned '59 red/white interior convertible Cadillac is #2 on my dream car list. #1 is a red/tan interior '72 Ferrari Dino 246 GT, complete w/mechanic to keep it running.

Ok, back to reality and RL-140's. Capacitors are ordered, and I'm very excited about the potential for sonic improvement. Results will be posted.

Merry Christmas, everybody.

Franco 

I'm still working on finding optimal positioning for my 140's which has raised a question. The speakers in my pair are not mirror images of each other which means that positioning can never be symmetrical. As in if placed vertically with both tweeters inside, one pair woofers will be at the top and the other woofers at the bottom, for instance.

So, are y'all's 140's the same or mirror imaged? I'm wondering if I've got an unmatched pair, or if what I have (both the same) is how they came from the factory.

At least my smaller RLs (60.2 and 6000) are identical with each other, i.e non mirrored both technically and cosmetically (straps + the logo). Same with the Pentas, midranges on the left and the tweeters on the right.

I would expect the 140s be this way as well - if yours have the type sticker left, they should both have the same serial number.

tournedos:

At least my smaller RLs (60.2 and 6000) are identical with each other, i.e non mirrored both technically and cosmetically (straps + the logo). Same with the Pentas, midranges on the left and the tweeters on the right.

I would expect the 140s be this way as well - if yours have the type sticker left, they should both have the same serial number.

One reply to this question from a forum shows that guy's pair of RL-140's to be non-mirrored as well. Seems to be de-rigeur for B&O during this time, at least.

S/N's for my 140's are different by over a hundred.

Now then, not a week after I got the Peerless tweeters fitted, an OEM RL-140 tweeter came up on e-bay. My bid was successful, took just over a week for it get to me. As I mentioned earlier the speakers sounded quite good w/the Peerless tweets, so I was in no particular hurry to get the OEM SEAS tweeters installed.

Got to it a couple of days ago. Put one in and compared between the Peerless and SEAS equipped speakers by selecting monoaural at the preamp and rolling back and forth between them. The SEAS equipped speaker sounded noticeably better. The Peerless tweeter performed very favorably except in one very important area, the SEAS tweeter seems to have capability lower into the freq. range (at least according to my ears anyway). This filled a "hole" in the lower treble/upper midrange that the crosssover design called for the tweeter to fill. These RL-140's are getting better and better. They're very close to becoming keepers, if a recap does as much good for them as I've heard many times said they will be staying at my house. They are fast, well balanced, decently efficient and very cool looking. With them my system has become mercilessly revealing of poorly recorded material (cd's my primary source) but gets the most out of well recorded material. Sometimes this is almost a disadvantage as much of my favorite music (R&R from the mid to late 60's) is not stellar regarding regarding recording quality and benefits from a system that's a little smoother and more forgiving.

well done Stephen, they are super speakers when they are in tip top condition

they should really be identical mirrors of each other, so you need to know which one to copy, so they end up both right -  do you have the proper stands to sit them on as well ??

I had a pair of RL140's from new and they were identical.

I can't recall the serial numbers but would not be surprised if they went through manufacturing on a batch basis and they then took any two to make a pair. They were certainly boxed separately.

I always rated them very highly, even defending them against the Penta sheep. Especially so when driven by a QUAD 405 amplifier, as B&O did not have an amp to do them justice at the time.