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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 01-02-2009 9:04 AM by Alex. 127 replies.
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  • 12-29-2008 8:00 AM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    xegoon:

    Hmmm, well, i could buy:

    • a 4.000,00 € Loewe Individual 40"
    • DVD / BluRay player (about 800,00 €)
    • a 2.000,00 € ROTEL surround sound processor
    • a 3.000,00 € pair of B&W speaker (700 series)

    about 10.000,00 € for a top but wired/unintegrated/unupgrdable system.

    Or...:

    • BV7-40":
      • 40" Full HD screen
      • DVD (BluRay)
      • Surround Sound preocessor
      • 750 W stereo sound
      • Upgradable
      • Efficient Seriferical Unit Controller 
      • MasterLink
      • Cinema Control
      • Universal Remote (Beo5)
      • Hand made
      • Magic
      • ...

    12.000,00 €... Expensive?? Confused

    The question is: do we really need all this things in our TV setup??

     If you wish to be hyper complicated you could do that, or are we trying to push pricings closer to B&O, I have a similar setup to what your looking at mirroring which I was reccomended by my local store. so can I change your first quote:

    Loewe Individual 40" - Full HD, 100Hz, 160Gb DR+, (now with mediaplayer) with AC3 module built in - £3650.oo

    Loewe Blutech DVD Player - £775.oo

    Loewe Floor standing front - £850.oo

    Loewe Rear Speakers - £350.oo

    (or use your existing B&o speakers)

    Total cost is £5625.oo for a system which is equivalent to your B&o for quality, better technology and half the price!

    Thats a fairer comparison!

    BS

  • 12-29-2008 8:58 AM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    I'm sure all those Loewe products look nice, but what about the build quality I like in Bang & Olufsen? What if I truly care about how it's built and what materials are used?

    And I'm sure you know that Loewe speakers are re-branded Bose (putting them well below BeoLab 4s in quality), so what would be the price increase for the 875 watt stereo sound experience I get from a 7-2? Loewe doesn't offer such a product, so where would I go to get it?

    What if I wanted more than 2 HDMI inputs? Who would I accomplish that with the Loewe system? An HDMI expander? How would I operate that? Please explain.

    What about 7.2 surround sound? What If my room can accommodate this setup? How would I add this capability to this Loewe system and at what cost?

    What about the ability to turn the television to my viewing position? Do I have to leave my chair? Maybe there's a button on that chintzy remote? No? So how would I accomplish this? Please quote a third party bracket that I can operate using the Loewe remote control or else also quote universal remote with the professional programming since a Beo 4 will do this out of the box.

    What if I want to dim the lights when I watch TV? How does Loewe connect to my Lutron system?

    What if I want to close windows? How does the Loewe achieve contact closure on outputs?

    How should I go about integrating a projector for event viewing? How does the Loewe accomplish the seamless switching from one monitor to another?

    It doesn't matter whether you need these capabilities, they exist in the television you're comparing your system to. They don't disappear because you don't like them. Just pointing out that your "fair" comparison is nonsense.  

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-29-2008 9:06 AM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    TripEnglish:

    I'm sure all those Loewe products look nice, but what about the build quality I like in Bang & Olufsen? What if I truly care about how it's built and what materials are used?

    And I'm sure you know that Loewe speakers are re-branded Bose (putting them well below BeoLab 4s in quality), so what would be the price increase for the 875 watt stereo sound experience I get from a 7-2? Loewe doesn't offer such a product, so where would I go to get it?

    What if I wanted more than 2 HDMI inputs? Who would I accomplish that with the Loewe system? An HDMI expander? How would I operate that? Please explain.

    What about 7.2 surround sound? What If my room can accommodate this setup? How would I add this capability to this Loewe system and at what cost?

    What about the ability to turn the television to my viewing position? Do I have to leave my chair? Maybe there's a button on that chintzy remote? No? So how would I accomplish this? Please quote a third party bracket that I can operate using the Loewe remote control or else also quote universal remote with the professional programming since a Beo 4 will do this out of the box.

    What if I want to dim the lights when I watch TV? How does Loewe connect to my Lutron system?

    What if I want to close windows? How does the Loewe achieve contact closure on outputs?

    How should I go about integrating a projector for event viewing? How does the Loewe accomplish the seamless switching from one monitor to another?

    It doesn't matter whether you need these capabilities, they exist in the television you're comparing your system to. They don't disappear because you don't like them. Just pointing out that your "fair" comparison is nonsense.  

    Your a brave man Trip....posting this. I am sure you will soon have many angry responses how the average consumer does not need all of this frippery and frivolity and thus they should not be factored into the comparison. Then again, I am not certain the average consumer is or ever was B and O's target market.

    Beovision 7-55 with Beolab 7-4, 9s and 4000s

    Beovision 10-40 with Beolab 1s and 6000s

    Beosound 1, 5, 2000, and 3000

    Beotime, Beotalk, Beocoms

  • 12-29-2008 9:15 AM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    It's like criticizing me for overspending on a meal at Morton's when there's raw meat available at a grocery store. It just misses the point. 

    If you are not someone who appreciates fine dining, please understand that that is personal taste and not a valid commentary on fine dining. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-29-2008 9:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    Come on... I think everyone here can appreciate the BV7 or any other beovision. But for once be honest and just admit that despite their craftmanship and looks the basic models lack the most essential technologies like HDMI and full HD.

    Every DVD player now has HDMI (or any digital tv decoder): we all know it does not make a difference on a normal DVD but who wants HDMI to DVI connections etc etc etc when you buy a TV at that price.

     HDMI on every BV ! Or even a Full HD screen. 

  • 12-29-2008 10:14 AM In reply to

    • plagente
    • Top 500 Contributor
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    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    TripEnglish:

    It's like criticizing me for overspending on a meal at Morton's when there's raw meat available at a grocery store. It just misses the point. 

    If you are not someone who appreciates fine dining, please understand that that is personal taste and not a valid commentary on fine dining. 

     B&O is for aesthetes.

    I'm the first to criticize the overpriced beovision(s) in regards to the lack of some basic functionalities (like no HDMI on a 5,5KEuros TV !).

    Please note that I'm not talking about the BV9 which is realy unique.

    The beovision's problem is that buying B&O is a LONG TERM INVESTMENT. But  how could it be relevant to buy a 12KEuros  B&O TV when it performs like a 2,5 KEuros screen six or twelve  months  after you bought it ? The competitors are working hard to improve their screen technology every 6 months. Still now for example  the Beocenter 6 is largely underpeforming in term of screen quality (my old small sharp aquos is far better), same thing for the BV 8.

    B&O TVs will be far more relevant when the flat screen technology will be mature in 2 or 3 years.

    Whatever, B&O is all about LIFESTYLE. You pay for the Design,  the Quality of build, the Exclusivity, the B1 shops (...) and  last but not least the Brand. 

    I can easily agree that most  people cannot understand that. Especialy when life is becoming harder and harder..

    I want to stress that you don't need to be rich to think and live like an aesthete (it helps of course). It's always a question of choice, time and patience. When I was student, all my friends were buying a new ugly and cheap windows laptop every year.  I saved over  1,5 year  and I bought an Apple. I kept it 5 years. It was performing enough for what I needed and it gave me great satisfaction and pleasure.

    So keep your old TV and save over 2 or 3 years and then buy a Beovision.

     

    http://p-lagente.blogspot.com/

  • 12-29-2008 10:47 AM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    Very weak arguments in your post, Trip. Fact is that Loewe offers 2x a DVB-S for an additional 150 euros. Individual Compose this is standard. Capable of watching HD-television. CI-slot is standard. DR+ is standard. Watch and record decoded channels at the same time with one smartcard. Quality of video is outstanding. 3 years warranty, same as B&O.

    - DVB-C/T tuner standard, twice.

    - Timeshift, just one button. Easy!

    - USB slot standard, twice. Put some jpg or mp3 on a stick, and pop it in. Simple!

    - Remote for your STB or BR-player? Why? STB is in the tv, BR can be hidden, because its controlled with the hdmi-cable.

    - 7.2? Whatever.

    - Turning the television? No problem.

    - Connect more than 2 hdmi? I wonder if you would say the same before the 7-40 MK3 was launched just one year ago!!!

    - Close the curtains, dim the light? Just stay in your chair and ask your wife.

    The only thing whats right in your post is the sound quality. B&O wins. But it is easy to connect beolabs to the AC3 module. Best of both worlds.Wink


     

  • 12-29-2008 10:49 AM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    TripEnglish:

    I'm sure all those Loewe products look nice, but what about the build quality I like in Bang & Olufsen? What if I truly care about how it's built and what materials are used?

    And I'm sure you know that Loewe speakers are re-branded Bose (putting them well below BeoLab 4s in quality), so what would be the price increase for the 875 watt stereo sound experience I get from a 7-2? Loewe doesn't offer such a product, so where would I go to get it?

    What if I wanted more than 2 HDMI inputs? Who would I accomplish that with the Loewe system? An HDMI expander? How would I operate that? Please explain.

    What about 7.2 surround sound? What If my room can accommodate this setup? How would I add this capability to this Loewe system and at what cost?

    What about the ability to turn the television to my viewing position? Do I have to leave my chair? Maybe there's a button on that chintzy remote? No? So how would I accomplish this? Please quote a third party bracket that I can operate using the Loewe remote control or else also quote universal remote with the professional programming since a Beo 4 will do this out of the box.

    What if I want to dim the lights when I watch TV? How does Loewe connect to my Lutron system?

    What if I want to close windows? How does the Loewe achieve contact closure on outputs?

    How should I go about integrating a projector for event viewing? How does the Loewe accomplish the seamless switching from one monitor to another?

    It doesn't matter whether you need these capabilities, they exist in the television you're comparing your system to. They don't disappear because you don't like them. Just pointing out that your "fair" comparison is nonsense.  

    Wow Okay, I aint an expert but I can answer in relation to my system and questions I asked.

    1. Loewe are not Bose speakers anymore, They were a few years back as an experiment between the two companies, but not anymore they are Loewe speakers.

    2. I currently use the Highline 900 watt subwoofer in my surround with the TV speakers as central speaker and I have noticed no difference betwene that and a 7-2.

    3. I currently use a autoswitching HDMI expander attached to my sky box on the back of the loewe individual as I have four HDMI inputs and it works perfectly well, no issues at 1080p

    4. will give you the 7.2 surround is only 5.1.

    5. My individual selection has a lovely motorized stand which i just press left and right instead of selecting stand. plus the stand and remote that does this is "out of the box" You can also do this with a wall bracket or a table stand or floor stand, your choice.

    6. Lutron does have an interface that is controlled by the assist multi, which will also control my sky box without the need of a IR blaster and insulating tape.

    7. Close windows? I would probably get up to do that being fair so is not important.

    8. You can connect a projector to the loewe and red button (turn off the TV screen allowing you to control sound etc through the loewe remote.

    My fair comparison is not really nonescence, However if you want to insult my intelligence and choice then that is your nature, if you look at the comparison mentioned origionally. Also you have to remember the B&O system is TWICE the price of the loewe system I quoted, PLUS the things you mention like Lutron, window closing???? and all that rubbish adds more to the price. The crux is we are talking about a television which gives you surround sound, However can you tell me what your highly defended lump of czech republic metal can do about built in hard drive and full 1080P 100Hz tech, Excuse me for being rather animated but your distasteful ranting was insulting about my personal choice!!

     BS

  • 12-29-2008 10:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    DoubleU:

    Very weak arguments in your post, Trip. Fact is that Loewe offers 2x a DVB-S for an additional 150 euros. Individual Compose this is standard. Capable of watching HD-television. CI-slot is standard. DR+ is standard. Watch and record decoded channels at the same time with one smartcard. Quality of video is outstanding. 3 years warranty, same as B&O.

    - DVB-C/T tuner standard, twice.

    - Timeshift, just one button. Easy!

    - USB slot standard, twice. Put some jpg or mp3 on a stick, and pop it in. Simple!

    - Remote for your STB or BR-player? Why? STB is in the tv, BR can be hidden, because its controlled with the hdmi-cable.

    - 7.2? Whatever.

    - Turning the television? No problem.

    - Connect more than 2 hdmi? I wonder if you would say the same before the 7-40 MK3 was launched just one year ago!!!

    - Close the curtains, dim the light? Just stay in your chair and ask your wife.

    The only thing whats right in your post is the sound quality. B&O wins. But it is easy to connect beolabs to the AC3 module. Best of both worlds.Wink


     

    Thank you never noticed this whilst typing

  • 12-29-2008 10:59 AM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    DoubleU,

    Weak arguments in my post? Let me quote your arguments here:

    "whatever"

    "no problem"

    "ask your wife"

    Not exactly Harvard debate material.

    Otherwise, my argument stands. I don't think the Loewe is a bad choice at all and wasn't insulting the poster's personal choice. I'm glad he went with a unique offering. I'm also glad that a brand like Loewe see fit to offer something that stands out from the crowd.

    The point of my post was that the comparison to the BeoVision 7 was not an accurate or instructive one in that it did not contain any of the things I mentioned. As I've said before (but who reads these days), we can certainly debate whether the capabilities of the BeoVision 7 are necessary for the average user. Even I would say that they're generally not, but to simply ignore them as if they cost or offer nothing is, as I've said, not accurate or instructive.

    And while the previous BeoVision 7s were never released here in the states, chances are I would not defend them. Fortunately we weren't discussing them. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-29-2008 11:04 AM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    Am I the only one here that thinks the BV7 looks like a pile of cr*p?

    It looks like a bunch of stuff put together, not like a single system. 

    The BV9/BV5 on the other hand is a piece of art. Even the "freaky" BV8 is nicer looking than the BV7.

     

    After Loewe bumped up here, I googled around a bit and the 40" individual looks awesome! Too bad it doesn't listen to the Beolink5000...   

    -Andreas

     

    BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2

     

     

     

  • 12-29-2008 11:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    TripEnglish:

    DoubleU,

    Weak arguments in my post? Let me quote your arguments here:

    "whatever"

    "no problem"

    "ask your wife"

    Not exactly Harvard debate material.

    Otherwise, my argument stands. I don't think the Loewe is a bad choice at all and wasn't insulting the poster's personal choice. I'm glad he went with a unique offering. I'm also glad that a brand like Loewe see fit to offer something that stands out from the crowd.

    The point of my post was that the comparison to the BeoVision 7 was not an accurate or instructive one in that it did not contain any of the things I mentioned. As I've said before (but who reads these days), we can certainly debate whether the capabilities of the BeoVision 7 are necessary for the average user. Even I would say that they're generally not, but to simply ignore them as if they cost or offer nothing is, as I've said, not accurate or instructive.

    And while the previous BeoVision 7s were never released here in the states, chances are I would not defend them. Fortunately we weren't discussing them. 

    "Not exactly Harvard debate material." - Says it all I am afraid!!!!

  • 12-29-2008 11:23 AM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    Not debating price but I agree that the BV7 is too alike other sets in looks. The BV5/9 on the other hand is a work of genius - the 5 in particular. It has the real B&O wow factor which is one heck of an achievement in a flat screen set. Also agree the BV8 has some magic as well - the new MX really.

    Confess that I wouldn't be too bothered about all the extras in the BV7 - what I want is a piece of art and for me that is something worth paying for. The BV5/9 is art, the BV7, for me, is an LCD TV.  But beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and the BV7 is a popular set. Do also remember that at introduction, the price of the BV7-32" model was not that far off that of the Avant.

  • 12-29-2008 11:35 AM In reply to

    • plagente
    • Top 500 Contributor
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    • Joined on 11-06-2008
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    • Silver Member

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    I have to say that I really love this Loewe Individual Compose ... And it is half the price of the BV7. Why not after all ???

    Trip, don't try to argue on technical points. You're too clever for that. It is obvious that B&O is in late !!!

    Nobody can argue on Beovision's prices starting from technical issues.. When I bought my Cartier watch I didn't discuss the price !!! . And trust me, it only gives hours, minutes, and seconds like all over watches and does less than any 100$ digital chrono.

    The only points are passion, beauty, exclusivity, personnal taste...(and wealthiness...)

    And B&O is B&O.... B&O is far more a luxury brand than Loewe.There's a story, a legacy, a spirit !!! So you pay it. That's all.

    For my side, I'm not ready to pay it for a Beovision, at least for the moment. My brain keeps saying no! no! no! and I can't stop my brain.

     

     

     

     

    http://p-lagente.blogspot.com/

  • 12-29-2008 12:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    TripEnglish:

    DoubleU,

    Weak arguments in my post? Let me quote your arguments here:

    "whatever"

    "no problem"

    "ask your wife"

    Not exactly Harvard debate material.

     

    Whatever, because I think it is stupid to have 9 speakers in a living room. But ok, thats personal.

    No problem, means it is no problem to turn the tv with a remote. I know I am not a native english speaker, but I also dont know what is wrong with this answer.

    ask your wife is indeed not exactly Harvard debate material. If you are willing to pay 7000 pounds extra to close the curtain, there is for me not much room for a Harvard debate.

     

    TripEnglish:
    The point of my post was that the comparison to the BeoVision 7 was not an accurate or instructive one in that it did not contain any of the things I mentioned. As I've said before (but who reads these days), we can certainly debate whether the capabilities of the BeoVision 7 are necessary for the average user.

    Who reads these days? I thought that me and BS did refute some of your arguments. Including point 6 which I didnt know.

  • 12-29-2008 12:52 PM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    I would like to clarify that whatever Loewe products do or don't do, I have to say that they're a brand about which I generally have nothing but kind things to say. I simply found it instructive to take a very direct comparison and explain what it did or didn't do compared to a BeoVision 7.

    If Loewe were really available here in the states I would likely own a piece or two. In fact, I'd probably be more likely to buy a smaller Loewe than a BeoVision 8. (I'd also have a Brionvega on my night stand!). In general, I like any manufacturer that aims for the heart instead of the head. Sony's offerings are sometimes accidentally beautiful in a brutal sort of way, but in general Asian based brands seem too focused on the features and not enough on the benefits. If the French made a television I'd be first in line to buy it. It would probably made out of a rare and fragile wood with a leather remote and would only play music instead of the soundtrack to the video, but it would excite something in me that doesn't correspond to a line on a spec sheet.

    Plagente is right, I shouldn't argue on technical merits. Maybe that will be a New Year's resolution.  

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-29-2008 12:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    DU, you are correct. BS's point by point reply was well done indeed. I admit that I was incorrect on several points. That's what I call Harvard debate material!

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-29-2008 1:13 PM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    in trip's defence ( it IS xmas after all ) i've used loewe gear in the past and NO WAY is it in the same league as bno

    build quality , picture quality and design are a big step backwards

    plus their speaker range is laughable 

    customer service is pretty awful too

    if i couldn't afford / justify a bno , i'd go pioneer / sony before loewe anyday 

    popgear is grate™

  • 12-29-2008 2:19 PM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    Thanks Flappo! I'll have to buy you a second pint. (first pint was for the Richard E Grant avatar).

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-29-2008 2:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    I really like this new white TV from Sony... Saw it live today, and it only costs 1299 euro! (40")

     

     

    -Andreas

     

    BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2

     

     

     

  • 12-29-2008 2:48 PM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    I really like this delicious looking sandwich I found on Google's image search. Haven't seen it in person, but I think it would cost around 4 or 5 dollars.

    Sandwich

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 12-29-2008 2:55 PM In reply to

    • benjnz
    • Top 150 Contributor
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    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    Well strange how the vast majority of the price bleaters can only come out with where's my HDMI x 9999 etc. I guess if you really want/need all that HDMI then you have to buy something else, so why worry about the proce, go get your Loewe, Samsung, Sony etc.

     Pricing is always an issue with B&O and it's nto helped by their differing desings. Sony and such like, all their TVs look the same regardless of size, B&O however, have differing designs and features on differing sizes. You could argue to get pricing ruight just make one form factor with multiple sizes and features. I'd love a 42" BV9 Big Smile

    However if you do that you loose the magic and they just become another TV manufacutrer, rather than delivering a unique, individual product molded to their customer. Honest Guv! Smile

  • 12-29-2008 2:56 PM In reply to

    • benjnz
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    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    Oh that's just great Trip, now you've got me starving and it's only 8:55am lol Stick out tongue
  • 12-29-2008 3:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    saw the new super duper x series sony at john lewis today , what a pile of *&^% that was , piccie was ok , but the design was a total disaster , looked like helen keller and stevie wonder had done the finishing touches , truly abysmal

    popgear is grate™

  • 12-29-2008 3:40 PM In reply to

    • Dude1
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    Re: Have B&O gone mad with their prices?

    I like the look of the new Loewe. It looks good and the build is good, picture isnt bad either lets be honest.

     

    But i do agree that Bang have the edge.  The Bangvisions are designed for people to take full use of their features and salespeople are trained to show these at demonstration, as luxury car dealers are trained to show all the functions of their vehicles when they are selling them.

    If having a television that looks like NOTHING else on the market, with a brilliant sound quality and very good capabilities doesnt interest you, forget about it and buy something else.  The reality is that the "Visions" are expensive, but last the distance in many respects.  The waffle about the technical jargon is irrelevent.  I have never pulled out some brochure or manual to spout off about the pixels or resolution when people see the picture quality or listen to the sound at my house.

    I agree that the Pioneers etc are catching up, lets wait and see shall we...Whistle

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