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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 01-20-2010 8:55 AM by Flappo The Grate. 181 replies.
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  • 01-15-2010 12:34 PM In reply to

    • Marc
    • Top 500 Contributor
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    • Joined on 11-12-2007
    • Munich, Germany
    • Posts 83
    • Bronze Member

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    I stumbled across it and thought it worthwhile bringing it back on the table again 

     

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

    Speakers: Beolab 5, Beolab 3, Beolab 10, Beolab 2, DeToma Subwoofer; CD Player: Beosound 9000; TV/Video: Beovision 4-65 inkl. Beosystem 3, Panasonic BlueRay Player, Technisat Digital Receiver; Home Integration: Beoport, BeoLink Wireless, Beo 4, Beo 5, Beotime, Apple TV

  • 01-15-2010 12:35 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    SwedishBeoFan:

    5. This is like comparing Porsche to a Kia. No in 2 years a 2010 Kia won´t be cool, in 50 years the Porsche still will. 

    Straw man. Your argument would be valid if that Porsche had a Kia engine.  The BV7 is a Samsung panel.  Samsung now has better panels than the one in that TV.

     

    I still think BeoVision 5 and the Avant is supercool sets, a B&O television is NEVER obsolete. The focus point should be just that, you don´t have to upgrade your TV every 2 years, a 10 year old B&O is still great.

    10 years ago the only plasma was the Phillips and it was $10k and looked like crap.  In 10 years your LCD BV will be so obsolete that these boards will be full of people complaining their TVs aren't upgradable.  The BV7-32 isn't even full HD.  The BV7-40 is only 100hz.  Sure they're nice TVs, and good for you if you have one, but if you buy one tomorrow you're not buying the best 40" or 32" on the market.

     

    If upgrading your TV every year and having access to twitter in your remote is your thing, B&O probably isn´t for you. 

    Well, obviously.  I don't want to compromise on features and spend a lot of money on throwaway technology, which is what LCDs are.  I don't care if it comes with Heidi Klum attached to it, it's not worth it.  Not until the technology levels out like CRTs did.  That's why the Avant is so awesome.  It is the pinnacle of what you could ever hope to achieve with a CRT.  Unless Heidi Klum was attached to it.

     

    7. Of course Apple will never buy B&O! What would be the point of that? It would gain neither of the companies, as mentioned above, since they have absolutely nothing in common. 

    No but it would only benefit B&O.  That last one was thrown in as sort of a joke point to end the list on.  Ha. Ha.  But it seems to be one of the sticking points... Good thing I didn't say "Bose".

     

  • 01-15-2010 12:40 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    cooldude:

    Even you will have to admit that the Beo5 is an utter disaster and needs continuous channel programming ? Ridiculous if you buy an 800$ remote that needs 200$ of programming every 6 months to bring it up to date ....

     

    If Beo5 could control everything in your rack whether it was a B&O product or not, and people could program it at home without hackware off the interwebz that cost money, and if it was $200, they'd sell a million of them.  Or at least a few hundred thousand.

  • 01-15-2010 12:42 PM In reply to

    • Marc
    • Top 500 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 11-12-2007
    • Munich, Germany
    • Posts 83
    • Bronze Member

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

     

    Very good commend macjonny1.

    I also think B&O is getting behind especially in the field of integration of digital media.

    For instance, I had a look at BS5 and I found itunes a much better digital media organiser than BS5. The upload of new music into BS% is just unpractical.

    B&O should bring forward a real media center which is based on open standards and which is easily integrated with e.g. apple. IT, media and entertainment is converging. Apple has already learned that lesson, B&O is still thinking in the old days of seperate industries. 

     

     

     

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

    Speakers: Beolab 5, Beolab 3, Beolab 10, Beolab 2, DeToma Subwoofer; CD Player: Beosound 9000; TV/Video: Beovision 4-65 inkl. Beosystem 3, Panasonic BlueRay Player, Technisat Digital Receiver; Home Integration: Beoport, BeoLink Wireless, Beo 4, Beo 5, Beotime, Apple TV

  • 01-15-2010 12:48 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    cooldude:

    Absolutely agree !!!!

    For a Danish made premium product all assembly should be in Denmark!!! No exceptions.
    However I have no problem with most of the parts being made elsewhere as long as the design, final assembly and quality control is done in Denmark.

    Wait, you say no exceptions then make an exception.  No matter.

    There's an SD card included with a BS4. Should that be made in Denmark?  The BV LCDs are mostly Samsung panels.  Should they be made in Denmark?

    What's the point of having some Chinese guy build the boards, the CD motors, the circuits, the LCD display, the plastic case, the glass doors and whatever else is in a 3200, just to ship it to Denmark and have some guy there put the parts together.  Hey Mr Jigsaw Puzzle Man, build me a 3200 from these parts!  Thanks heavens we had you piece these parts together so we can pay you what 5 Chinese dudes would cost.

    Overhead is bad.  I thought we were talking about how to save B&O?  Not how to keep unnecessary costs up.

  • 01-15-2010 12:53 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    Habahaba:

    BTW, I have to comment about the desired market ... when I was young, the B&O catalogs featured architects and design. Now they seem to feature doctors with chalets and Astons. I feel that the direction is away from being a maker of quality products with great design to being a maker for the hugely rich. The direction in pricing reflects this. This isn't necessarily contradicting good design... but I think the values are changing.

    A+ sir.  This is exactly right.

    Harley's aren't bought by riders.  They're bought by people with too much money who happen to ride.  Harley makes a cheaper line for "entry level."

    PRS guitars aren't bought by players.  They're bought by people with too much money who happen to play. PRS makes a cheaper line for "entry level."

    B&O isn't bought by people who appreciate the product.  It's bought by people with too much money that want cool looking speakers.  And there aren't enough of those to go around.

  • 01-15-2010 1:08 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    Habahaba:

    B&O for me is about design, sound quality, picture quality, usability and interoperability. Design is there even though some are getting old. Sound quality is ok, even though not high-end (BL5 being exception). Video picture quality is great, but this is specially area where progress is being made at very fast pace. B&O doesn't seem to be able to keep up with the sharpest offering out there.

    B&O has always been priding itself as a leader in innovation, both in tech and design.....  nothing left of that now. (BL5000, BL8000, BL5 speakers, Ouverture and beocenter 9500 and beosound 9000 were great examples of that.)

    Habahaba:

    And, good grief, if what you wrote about Beo5 is true! That is being advertised as one of the most significant designs coming out from B&O. The design itself is fine, but if you really have to go to the store to get it programmed!?! I don't have Logitech, but AFAIK, you just connect it to the PC and use some browser based software to download codes for any device. Even the touch makes me suspicious.. it's being marketed as using designs from Nasa and to be honest, it sounds like it would not be that good in practice so it needs some backing up: "Yes, it really is very good because Nasa blah blah blah". It's unfortunate that B&O isn't using touch more. My dad still has the 9300 (CD is broken as it seems to be the case with many of those) and that had touch sensitive glass with context sensitive menus years before Apple had anything. I also like the touch on BeoCenter 2. But UI wise, it is still the same as on 9300. And now the Beo5 seems not to be that exiting at all. I don't want to stream videos to my remote, and I don't think B&O should create a remote that looks like iPod Touch, but it really is lacking something (in addition to the programmability). What? I'm not sure. It has surprising design, but maybe it's lacking magic.

    B&O is also about magic: the red glowing context sensitive touch buttons on the 9300, sliding doors when the hand comes close, the opening of BC2, dimming lights, etc. Where is the magic on current designs? Beo5 - maybe Apple has commoditized magic on touch devices. So I guess that in that sense B&O should continue to pursue the magic from hardware. BS5 doesn't have magic in that sense, but it has magical design!

     

    The beo5 remote is a real pain to use (had one on trial last year), slipped out of my hand twice.  Not to mention the masters degree in programming needed to get it working if you don't have deep pockets (filled with cash to pay for the updates ).   I absolutely love the 9300 touchscreen (and beolink 7000 remote) system which was really  innovative and functional when released and (for me) still holds up very well today as, in a sense, it was a precursor on touchscreen technology. What I meant with the wifi etc is to bring back some form of 2-way communication which has since sadly dissapeared as well. A feature that a many of us would love to see again, I am sure.

    The products B&O makes now are still nicely designed ...but nothing more and lacking much of  the innovation and daring design that attracted most of us to the brand in the first place. 

    B&O should NOT play it safe and keep offering unimaginative items. The BV10 is nice but nothing more than an updated  BV5 design....  
    Kudos to the BV8 as it a product that has more design thought put into it than the BV10.... sorry.

  • 01-15-2010 1:08 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    perosnally i think bno started going down the drain when they replaced jj with dl 

    dl's ok , but he already admitted he hates computers

    jj on the other hand was always forward thinking

    bno needs new blood , not the same boring old ****'s

    popgear is grate™

  • 01-15-2010 1:18 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    dilznik:

    cooldude:

    Absolutely agree !!!!

    For a Danish made premium product all assembly should be in Denmark!!! No exceptions.
    However I have no problem with most of the parts being made elsewhere as long as the design, final assembly and quality control is done in Denmark.

    Wait, you say no exceptions then make an exception.  No matter.

    There's an SD card included with a BS4. Should that be made in Denmark?  The BV LCDs are mostly Samsung panels.  Should they be made in Denmark?

    What's the point of having some Chinese guy build the boards, the CD motors, the circuits, the LCD display, the plastic case, the glass doors and whatever else is in a 3200, just to ship it to Denmark and have some guy there put the parts together.  Hey Mr Jigsaw Puzzle Man, build me a 3200 from these parts!  Thanks heavens we had you piece these parts together so we can pay you what 5 Chinese dudes would cost.

    Overhead is bad.  I thought we were talking about how to save B&O?  Not how to keep unnecessary costs up.

    LOL ... if they want to keep that premium price level, I see no other option that to assemble it in Denmark with Danish quality control and service.

    I never said all pieces need to be manufactured in Denmark. If it is a full assembled chinese product I would be ok with that on condition it has a chinese price level as well.... which means I would never buy any B&O products as I now do not buy any bose products for example.

  • 01-15-2010 1:19 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    cooldude:

    TripEnglish:

    cooldude:
    Samsung will release  remote like that with its UNC9000 range of LED screens ... you can even stream a video feed to it (like an iphone)

    How cool is that ?

     

    Not cool at all. Utterly pointless and an example of how new technology has to be "digested" before it becomes genuinely useful and not just a gimmick.

    TripEnglish, I am sorry but you're totally wrong on that one, IMO.

    Most logitech and philips universal remotes now have touch screens and easy programming for years... what's your problem with that ?
    All I want is a beo remote that basically is a beo 5 in a beo4 format that is user friendly and easy programmable.

    Even you will have to admit that the Beo5 is an utter disaster and needs continuous channel programming ? Ridiculous if you buy an 800$ remote that needs 200$ of programming every 6 months to bring it up to date ....

    And why not give it some extra capabilities like wifi communication ? The technology is cheap and available.
    I think in this tech world alot of possibilities can be created with it...even ones not thought of yet....would also attract a new (younger?) clients.

     

    There was a bit of a miscommunication there. User programability has been a big issue for me. The customer should be able to have most, if not total, control over their programming. It was the "watching TV on your remote" that I think is useless.

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 01-15-2010 1:23 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    Flappo The Grate:

    perosnally i think bno started going down the drain when they replaced jj with dl 

    dl's ok , but he already admitted he hates computers

    jj on the other hand was always forward thinking

    bno needs new blood , not the same boring old ****'s

    DL has had his time and gave us some great designs (which I still love) .......20 yrs ago.
    B&O indeed needs a new visionary and conceptual designer no matter how hard it will be for the company.
    It would pay off in the future. 

  • 01-15-2010 1:27 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    cooldude:
    I never said all pieces need to be manufactured in Denmark. If it is a full assembled chinese product I would be ok with that on condition it has a chinese price level as well.... which means I would never buy any B&O products as I now do not buy any bose products for example.

    What if it was made in Poland?  Same el cheapo labor, different continent.  Whitey work for darkie prices.  Would that be better?

     

    Even if it was built in China, it's not like the Chinese designed it.  They can't design anything that isn't made of lead and chewing gum.  Their innovation is a joke.  But their ability to build a factory and follow orders is superb.  That's why the 50,000,000,000 iPhones out there all look good when you open the box.  Even the frikkin' box is built well.

  • 01-15-2010 1:34 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    TripEnglish:

    There was a bit of a miscommunication there. User programability has been a big issue for me. The customer should be able to have most, if not total, control over their programming. It was the "watching TV on your remote" that I think is useless.

    No prob, Trip, 

    And the 'watching tv on your remote' I only took as an example coming from the article of the samsung remote I read) and sounds as useless to me as it obviously does to you. But how about it shows the album covers and playlists you have on your BS5?
    However I do keep an open mind and a 'programmable' system like that (let's say with apps) can offer some interesting ideas and functionality and make your remote even further customizable.... and more futureproof...

     

  • 01-15-2010 1:34 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    dilznik:

    alenvprekrsku:

    Please B&O stay as a European company. I don`t like to see the label: made in PRC or Apple

    Well, you know... if they are Danish owned and built the boards and plastic in China or Korea or where ever... they'd still be a European company right?  You know... Apple is still an American company, right?  Every 3 series BMW is made in America and every X5 and Z4 in the world is made in America, too, yet BMW is still a German company, right?

    Ok. Yes it is the same factory but in Europe the work is done by better paid and protected worker (Flexicurity). As well as enviroment is more protected.

     

    BS 1, BeoCom 2, 2x LC 2, Form 2,  BS 2, BS 3, 2x Beo 4, BS 5, BM 5, BL 5,Beo 6, BS 6, 2x A8, BV 8-40, BL 8000, 3x A9 Keyring, Serenata, BeoTime, BeoTalk 400

  • 01-15-2010 1:46 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    dilznik:

    cooldude:
    I never said all pieces need to be manufactured in Denmark. If it is a full assembled chinese product I would be ok with that on condition it has a chinese price level as well.... which means I would never buy any B&O products as I now do not buy any bose products for example.

    What if it was made in Poland?  Same el cheapo labor, different continent.  Whitey work for darkie prices.  Would that be better?

     

    Even if it was built in China, it's not like the Chinese designed it.  They can't design anything that isn't made of lead and chewing gum.  Their innovation is a joke.  But their ability to build a factory and follow orders is superb.  That's why the 50,000,000,000 iPhones out there all look good when you open the box.  Even the frikkin' box is built well.

    Poland... China .... whatever, does not make any difference!! 

    A premium B&O system at a premium B&O price should be finished in Denmark. I never meant accessories like cable etc with that.

    If B&O made an Iphone they would not want to sell 50 billion of them either and certainly not market them at a 299$ consumer price either.
    So if B&O would market it's own customized iphone at $2000 you still would pay that price for a product that comes of the same chinese assembly line ? wow

    I have no problem with apple products and I am a mac user myself. 

  • 01-15-2010 2:19 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    Hadn't noticed until Macjonny1's post that this thread was started in 2008! But - aside from the "loney hearts on a Wednesday" threads it's one of the most active for months. What's the message there?

  • 01-15-2010 2:30 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    the message is

    bno don't care

    ok , tell that to the shareholders when ya go bust for ignoring us all

    popgear is grate™

  • 01-15-2010 2:47 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    Hardwriter:

    Hadn't noticed until Macjonny1's post that this thread was started in 2008! But - aside from the "loney hearts on a Wednesday" threads it's one of the most active for months.

    What's the message there?

    Struer should join the WedThred©

     

    • B&o bottle opener
  • 01-15-2010 2:54 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    burantek:

    Hardwriter:

    Hadn't noticed until Macjonny1's post that this thread was started in 2008! But - aside from the "loney hearts on a Wednesday" threads it's one of the most active for months.

    What's the message there?

    Struer should join the WedThred©

     

    After Struer reads this thread what should they infer?

     

    Beosound 5 BL9 BC2 BL8000 Beovision 7 BL6002  BL11 

     

  • 01-15-2010 3:04 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    linder:
    After Struer reads this thread what should they infer?

    This thread, or the WedThred©?

    Either thread... that regardless of our opinion(s) we are passionate (perhaps a little crazy) about the product(s).

    Smile

     

     

    • B&o bottle opener
  • 01-15-2010 3:12 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    cooldude:

    TripEnglish:

    There was a bit of a miscommunication there. User programability has been a big issue for me. The customer should be able to have most, if not total, control over their programming. It was the "watching TV on your remote" that I think is useless.

    No prob, Trip, 

    And the 'watching tv on your remote' I only took as an example coming from the article of the samsung remote I read) and sounds as useless to me as it obviously does to you. But how about it shows the album covers and playlists you have on your BS5?
    However I do keep an open mind and a 'programmable' system like that (let's say with apps) can offer some interesting ideas and functionality and make your remote even further customizable.... and more futureproof...

     

    Then we're in agreement. When I started this thread back in 1788, one of the first points I made was that the BeoSound 5 should be a wireless tablet device and more of a fully functioning remote than one dealing only with limited sources. 

    As for how to get through to Stuer... well, I'd try a fax. 

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 01-15-2010 6:18 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    "Squeeze" the ($200,-) Logitech Squeezebox Controller in the Beo5, and you have a 2-way wifi-remote. The Beo5 would than be a perfect match with the Beosound5.

    Browsing through n.radio and n.music with your beo5 would be a very cool gadget.

     

  • 01-15-2010 7:12 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    TripEnglish:

    ...........................When I started this thread back in 1788, one of the first points I made was that the BeoSound 5 should be a wireless tablet device and more of a fully functioning remote than one dealing only with limited sources. 

    As for how to get through to Stuer... well, I'd try a fax. 

    1788. Following the unsporting conduct of America, the British switched to Australia for colonisation. Denmark and Norway started a war with Sweden.

    No wonder no one took any notice of Trip and his wireless tablet idea. Whistle

    I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure. [W C Fields]

  • 01-15-2010 9:55 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    alenvprekrsku:

    Ok. Yes it is the same factory but in Europe the work is done by better paid and protected worker (Flexicurity). As well as enviroment is more protected.

    So you're paying more for the same work but it's still foreign built.  And this is a good idea why?

  • 01-15-2010 10:04 PM In reply to

    Re: How to save Bang & Olufsen

    cooldude:

    If B&O made an Iphone they would not want to sell 50 billion of them either and certainly not market them at a 299$ consumer price either.
    So if B&O would market it's own customized iphone at $2000 you still would pay that price for a product that comes of the same chinese assembly line ? wow

    I have no problem with apple products and I am a mac user myself. 

    I, personally, think they should.  They should design good quality, good looking products at a low price point with large profit margins and sell them in every store with an electronics section.  They should build something they can sell for twice what it cost to make that everyone wants and can buy.  If they do this then they will make money and we won't have to worry about them going under.  Consumers will buy the product, figure out how good it is, and maybe check the next level of product, which could be a nice looking, nice sounding, nicely designed bookshelf system for $1500 or whatever's reasonable.  Maybe then that person thinks "wow, this is great" and moves up.  That's how they got me.  First, A8 headphones, then a Century, then upwards from there.  You hook a 20 year old college student with a $600 computer speaker system that smokes anything else at that price point (the Bose Companion 5, for example... surely they can make something better than that for the same price) and then maybe in a few years when that guy has a job he'll get a BS4 or something.

    Profit margins and repeat customers keep companies in business.  If they're in business they'll keep making the stuff we like.  If they're not, they won't.

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