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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012 READ ONLY FORUM
This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and
1st March February 2012
Latest post 12-15-2008 5:58 AM by moxxey. 12 replies.
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12-12-2008 6:33 PM
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TripEnglish
- Joined on 10-27-2007
- America
- Posts 1,595
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Since we're on the subject... From an insiders perspective I have no trouble with our prices. I would think, since my living depends on it, that if our prices were out of line with what we deliver and our clients willingness to pay it I would be the first in line to rant. What I tend to see as the biggest issue is the in-store experience. I won't go pointing fingers, but it's safe to say that if any of my colleagues are on here, it's not them that we're worried about. Russ has elegantly pointed out that a great deal of our value comes in the experience of ownership and that is based largely on whether or not you have a good retailer. While some might be obliged to take the product and run, most are not. They expect, rightfully, some level of personal support, whether the prompt return of a phone call or an in-home visit from time to time. Speaking both from personal experience and from the stories I've head on this board, many retailers seem to be shirking their responsibility to represent the brand. I've been in shops all over North America and Europe and can't believe how often the shops look ragged with distracted salespeople tending to their own daydreams. It's no secret that a portion of our price goes to a large and costly dealer network so that our clients can have a care-free purchasing experience as well as a satisfying ownership experience. If a shop can't provide that, then they're just eating into the customer's bottom line! While I acknowledge the occasional pricing and product issue, I'm generally satisfied in this area and have found little trouble with our offerings over the years, but having recently undertaken the opening of a new store in an area recently abandoned by a less than reputable B&O dealer, I can tell you that our own retail operations pose the greatest threat to our longevity. People expect expensive stuff when they go into a store. They don't expect dirty floors and distracted associates.
There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin
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soundproof
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Posts 2,340
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Trip, Dirty floors and unattentive attendants are just not acceptable, and shouldn't even be discussion points. If that's the level at which the turnaround has to start, then woe. The trouble with the dealerships, and I do have some informed viewpoints on the topic, having had a look behind the curtain: what's the point? What are they there for? 1. To attract and recruit new customers? 2. To engage existing customers? 3. To keep the dealers warm? B&O needs to do (1) and (2) a lot better than it has, and the entire point of having such an extensive (and unique) worldwide chain of dealerships must be to attract new customers. If all you needed do was to keep your existing customers happy as they grow older, then you could do that in bespoke fashion, focusing on home visits and having a secret showroom. Given your avatar, let's discuss the Star Trek "tractor beam" - a gravitational ray that pulled in space ships when they were caught in it. That's how a store should function. B&O stores have wonderful locations around the world - millions pass by them every single day, and only a few pop inside. Because they're not made curious about what's inside - in fact, they are scared away. Here's an image of how B&O itself portrays its stores ... (sigh) There must be a huge market among Mormons.
B&O is in AudioVisual. That's entertainment. It's also aesthetic, culturally astute and of distinct status. Why not show that, instead of whatever it is the above is trying to show? I've been in stores that had "please do not touch" on the products!
Today's flatscreens are the artist's canvas of the third millennium, and B&O stores could be art galleries, at the flick of a button. You could arrange worldwide auctions of the latest video art in them, and have people bidding against one another across five continents. Owning an exclusive, signed by the artist, B&O flatscreen with the art embedded. Hey, the entire "B&O costs too much" argument just died - it's really a work of art, and it increases in value over time. And B&O could guarantee that they'll move the artwork to another certified screen, if necessary. (Instead, we're discussing the number of HDMI-connections.)
And those storefronts? Heck, come evening, project something interesting against the windows. Make people feel a buzz about B&O, let them be curious about the brand, let them think they have to pop inside to EXPERIENCE something. They shouldn't be thought of as stores, they should be experience centers. What if this is what you saw at night - projections that made it clear that this store is your best conduit for incredible audiovisual experiences? And during the day, you made your appeal in a product oriented way, but daring to reach for new market segments. Google Kazunori Yamauchi.
The trouble with B&O's stores is that they are soporific. They should be where the best music in the world is released, where you get early, and exclusive previews of coming movies, where operas serve you with live feeds, where musicians have their documentaries and concerts played on loops, where you can view multi-camera coverage of sailing, golf, football, car races ... This is not a brand for Mormons only. (And no insult intended to that religion, but the dress code is kind of formal.)
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KingOfSnake
- Joined on 02-07-2008
- Posts 359
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I can tell you that our own retail operations pose the greatest threat to our longevity. People expect expensive stuff when they go into a store. They don't expect dirty floors and distracted associates. Hmmmm interesting - B&O to my mind was historically about (family) businesses with enthusiasts for employees, thrilled at working and learning about the brand and the products. Rex Radio spring to mind? The move to franchise stores has - not exclusively - generally led to a non-specialist breed of staff being employed, with little product knowledge and longevity within a branch to establish solid customer relationships. The sales target is the goal, nothing less matters to the franchise owner - not the pedigree of the shop nor its standing amongst its customers, just a vehicle to make money. In a sense, and IMHO, B&O is suffering from its decisions to be less discerning with those people who have come to represent the brand recently. The market has been flooded, the brand less exclusive. Of course there are some very good and reputable dealers still in the market place - not sure about dirty floors and distracted associates - but staff are increasingly prone to selling B&O one week, selling Dishwashers the next and then after that selling advertising space for a different company if things don't work out. A sign of the times, B&O needs to support some dealerships, yet discard others - knowledgeable staff are everything, as is unrivalled customer service. B&O is not just about products.
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Bieele
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Netherlands
- Posts 339
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@ Soundproof; I like the way you are thinking! The magic has to get back to B&O. The first time I walked in a B&O shop (together with my uncle who was about the purchase a music system), I was totally awed. I had the feeling I experienced something really special; I did not feel like comparing the specification of the systems; I felt like I had to own it, touch it, experience it. Knowing/believing that it was truly special. Somehow that feeling has to get back when looking at B&O. The artwork idea is something that could actually work! Bieele
Heej zuij der alles veur gaeve
En heej zaet ze mogen ut hebbe van meej
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Puncher
- Joined on 03-27-2007
- Nr. Durham, NE England.
- Posts 9,588
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TripEnglish: People expect expensive stuff when they go into a store.
Interesting - I would have hoped they entered expecting the best product.
Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.
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Puncher
- Joined on 03-27-2007
- Nr. Durham, NE England.
- Posts 9,588
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Bieele: Somehow that feeling has to get back when looking at B&O. The artwork idea is something that could actually work! Bieele
Don't others already do the "artwork when off" thing, (although I do take soundproof's point about original, unique artworks - a rather clever idea)!
Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.
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Peter
- Joined on 02-12-2007
- Posts 9,572
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I agree with KingOfSnake - I loved visiting my old dealer where the salesman was enthused by the product and also by the history of B&O. I would buy on his recommendation because I knew it to be born of a love of the brand. To give him credit, he dissuaded me from some purchases, knowing that I would be disappointed. This type of service encouraged me to buy. I also knew that he knew far more than I did and that he was interested in old products as well as new. It was a very sad day when Windows lost the franchise. As said above, these dealers who had been around for such a long time offered something that the new soulless B1 stores just don't. You can have a store in the very best street but it is the staff that make a store. I still go into Windows as a little of the magic still lingers! (They still have the old lights!!)
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Puncher
- Joined on 03-27-2007
- Nr. Durham, NE England.
- Posts 9,588
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Peter : I agree with KingOfSnake - I loved visiting my old dealer where the salesman was enthused by the product and also by the history of B&O. I would buy on his recommendation because I knew it to be born of a love of the brand. To give him credit, he dissuaded me from some purchases, knowing that I would be disappointed. This type of service encouraged me to buy. I also knew that he knew far more than I did and that he was interested in old products as well as new. It was a very sad day when Windows lost the franchise. As said above, these dealers who had been around for such a long time offered something that the new soulless B1 stores just don't. You can have a store in the very best street but it is the staff that make a store. I still go into Windows as a little of the magic still lingers! (They still have the old lights!!)
True enough - I like the fact that the product was sold on merit!
Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.
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Affineur
- Joined on 04-27-2008
- United States
- Posts 90
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I remember the "old" days in the US (1970's) where B&O were just a section of a high-end audiophile store. Typically the products were presented in a separate room with a few "experts" around to help but only if they were not trying to convince someone else about the advantages of a McIntosh tube amplifier. Back then you really had to "do it yourself", at least in the US (the UK and Europe were much more well served). Fast forward to the B1 concept (at least as I have experienced it) and you have a dedicated store with product specialists (supposedly) trained not only in the electronics but in the details of installation. I find the experience significantly more enjoyable and functional, although I must say that recently there has been a bit of perceived lethargy on the part of the store personnel. Part of the "program" was that each product specialist was to to be engaging with anyone who entered the store with a Beo4 in their hand to introduce them to the integrated nature of all of the products and present numerous ways in which the products could be used in combination. This was done well for quite awhile, perhaps the training has fallen off. In any case, the B1 concept seems to be better from my perspective for a uniform worldwide format. Unfortunately there were (are) dealers that were (are) as good or better outside of the B1 system that have moved on or been forced out. The history and familiarity with the evolution of the products is very hard to imprint on someone new to the B&O family. As far as being consulted on the appropriate choice for a given application, this still happens as I was steered away (by a B1 store) from the purchase of BL4s for my BV8 and encouraged to consider the BL3s. Sinced I was not convinced, my represenatative arranged to bring the BL4s, BL3s, and a BL2 to my second home (where the BV8 is installed) and do a proper audio comparison with all of the various sources (audio, TV, HD movie). My B&O rep proved his point that the sound system in the BV8 alone was better than the BL4s with the BV8 combined (the BL4s added too much "color", particularly for music) and that the BL3s (alone or combined with the BV8) were sufficiently superior to justify the added cost. The addition of the BL2 to the system was great for movies but the audio for music was too "boomy" for my taste. Incidentally, the BV8 works great as a center speaker and is critical for elucidation of any conversation in a surround sound movie. At the end of the comparison the decision was either to just stick with the BV8 audio or add the BL3s. I added the BL3s and am very satisfied with the sound in the small (10'X16') room. It was clear that the B&O rep was more interested in the results of the comparison and to ensure that I was provided with the data that I needed to decide than he was in the actual sale. Such has been my experience with the B&O B1 concept. Many of the high-end audio-video stores will give the same type of service but the integration always seems awkward. This is a very real advantage of the B&O products.
Seek simplicity and distrust it. Alfred North Whitehead
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kawo
- Joined on 04-17-2007
- Posts 516
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From my point of view the shopping expirience makes the difference! I remember my first time at a B&O shop after the "magic" catched me at a friends house who was a proud owner of a Bs9000, BL8000 and an Avant. I agree with Trip, I knew at that time before I went to the first shop that a BS9000 with some beolabs and a TV will not be a cheap investment. I heard some stories about the dealers before, that they deliver and setup the system at my house, they help planing a audio/video link system, they do a training how to operate the whole system etc. That sounded a little bit unreal to me because i was not used to such level of service. The expirience in the shops itself do not really support this idea of the service concept "we take care". At the end I visited 3 dealerships and I signed my first "contract" with the one who really took care! The decission was not driven by the best price. That really does not make a big difference, if you get a couple of 100 Euros off from one dealer while purchasing a Bs9000, two pair of Lab3, a BV 6 and some more. You are looking for a "partner" who does the it right and not take the money and run... I used to visit B&O stores all over the place to catch some of the magic while I am traveling. (I think I have seen more than 30 shops from San Diego to Dubai) I don't do this anymore as from my point of view the B&O stores are really boring and all look the same. I fully agree that first the shopping expirience must be lifted to a new level. In my hometown a new B1 shop will open the next couple of days, it will just be a larger one than the other two, so why you need a third one? I would love to see a new store concept! Karsten
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BV4-50, Beosystem 3, Beolab 5, Beolab 3, BV3-32, BV1, BS9000, Beolab 4, Beolab 2000, Beo4 Cinema
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PhilLondon
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- London
- Posts 2,545
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I do not have to complain too much about the shopping experience here in London, in term of how the shops are arranged and how they look. I am more concerned at the quality of the answer to some technical questions. Also, the shops do not offer good conditions for "audiophile" style listening. You are offered to listen 2 minutes some speakers, while standing, if they where not the one in front of the sofa, and while other another salesman is talking on the phone or another TV is on... p.
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bayerische
- Joined on 12-11-2007
- Helsinki, Finland
- Posts 3,593
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The shop I use in Helsinki has a large air-went with fan noise above their high-end products such as the BL5 and BV9. When I tried to listen to the BL5's it was pretty much impossible... They did have an uncomfortable sofa.
-Andreas
BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2
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moxxey
- Joined on 04-14-2007
- South West, UK
- Posts 2,360
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TripEnglish: What I tend to see as the biggest issue is...
No, the biggest issue - and a key reason why I've dropped out of this board recently - is the the current relationship we have with our dealers. And some of those dealers are posting on here. They need to realise that their words are somewhat representative of their dealer.
We spends thousands of pounds on our B&O A/V equipment, yet test-drive their software. We're then given the impression, by dealer representatives, that it's 'our problem' and that 'other people have no issues'. That is NOT the answer we need. We want to hear that they are on the case, they are chasing B&O HQ (or UK) and that they understand the problems with the software and they'll do everything they can to resolve. Instead, I receive letters, emails and other sales-related items encouraging me to purchase even more B&O kit. My local dealer is on a real sales push at the moment. Roll on end of January. By then they'll soon find that they'll be few people wanting to purchase expensive B&O kit. I don't worry about the prices. I care that my products work effectively, seamlessly and that my dealer cares about the experience. Not gives me their opinion that, perhaps, the sw 'issues' are more my fault than B&O's. Dealers will need to be aware that, from the end of January 2009, once Christmas credit card bills roll in, that people will not be seeking to invest in expensive technology. They'll also be more dealer aware. For example, in this area the Bristol B&O dealer has suddenly become a lot more pro-active within the wider market, including Bath. Dealers will need to be aware that the way they talk to their customers is paramount. If they affect their experience of the products, or give the impression that they care less than they ought to care, then people will quickly look elsewhere.
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