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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 09-29-2008 8:17 AM by BeoNut1. 16 replies.
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  • 09-27-2008 2:37 PM

    • BeoNut1
    • Top 500 Contributor
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    BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    Dear Gang,

    I wanted to share some musings as well as pose some questions to the group about my current "digital media hub" in the hopes of instigating a discussion about something I'm passionate about - having Apple and B&O gear work together to give a simplistic, "poor man's" audio-visual set-up.

    With the help of JK1002, Soundproof, and many others in this forum, I adopted a BV8 / BL3 / Apple TV set-up relatively early on.  This fulfilled a long-standing desire to start experimenting with the use of Apple software and hardware to push B&O hardware.  I won't pontificate on my theories about the potential synergies of these two companies as I've belabored the point in the past, and I also get the feeling that us "Apple guys" sometimes irritate with our zeal.  However, suffice it to say, B&O's competencies with self-amplified speakers (particularly when including Dave Moulton's incredible ALT design) coupled with their demonstrated ability to enhance the flat panel viewing experience creates what I consider to be the perfect compliment to Apple's software and hardware driven media ecosystem that is iTunes.

    I now use an Apple TV as the sole input to my 32" BV8 for both audio files and video files.  I have a pair of BL3s attached directly to the BV8 and the Apple TV is connected with a HDMI cord.  Originally, I also connected a digital cable box / DVR, but once I proved to myself that I could live with a totally "a la carte" experience when it came to watching and listening to my media files, I got rid of cable.  Granted, this sort of set-up probably isn't for everyone - for instance, a sports fan would be unhappy without live TV.  However, for someone like myself who is pretty apathetic about sports, my internet connection has easily replaced my cable connection, and my media is now obtained solely via "imported" audio and video files as well as those files purchased or rented through iTunes or watched via Podcasts or YouTube.  The Apple TV's ability to seamlessly get on the internet for things like Podcasts and YouTube really made the transition easier than I'd thought it would be.  In fact, I'm generally very happy with the experience and have even started to ponder the next incarnation of these technologies for my house.

     

    Here are some of the things I like about this type of set-up (these are more broad concepts rather than specifics):

    -assuming one buys in to the Apple ecosystem of hardware and software, your media files essentially bounce around your house, car, vacation home, etc. with very little effort.  For instance, when traveling, we put movies and TV shows on our iPhones / iPods for the kids to watch on the actual iPhone / iPod or by porting it to the LCD systems in our vehicles.  Once we get to our destination, we can use the same source to port media files to the hotel TV (or, in the case of a vacation home, a pre-loaded Apple TV does the porting to a TV set).  At home, when using multiple Apple TVs that are synching via a central computer, you can even start a TV show or movie on a "new" TV at the same place you left off watching it on another TV - that's how well the hardware and software play together.

    -there's a minimum of hardware involved.  I'm relying on the Digital to Analogue Convertor in the BV8 to play digital files rather than a traditional component audio / video system to play physical media.  I turn on the BL3s when I'm listening to music and the BV8 becomes my audio directory that I in turn control via the Beo 4 or our iPhones.

    -the system is probably more "future-proof" than other proprietary offerings in the "digital media hub" realm as Apple is a large company that is very adept at software programming.  Also, Apple's impetus to keep their software current is dictated by other products that are much more pervasive and important to their "bottom line" than the Apple TV.  Likewise, because Apple's digital media hub (the Apple TV) relies on a computer driving it in the background, it's constantly updating.  This constant updating may prove trickier for smaller proprietary systems (like the Beomedia system or the upcoming BS5) to implement.

     

    In pondering how I'd like to construct my next Apple / B&O digital media hub, though, I've developed a few questions that I wanted to pose to those in this forum more knowledgeable than I about some of these things (incidentally, my next digital media hub will hopefully involve a larger flat panel, a better DAC via the Beosystem 3, and larger speakers):

    -Am I naive to think that I'll be able to rival the audio experience of something like the upcoming BS5 by simply re-encoding my music in Apple Lossless format and using a better DAC than that inherent to the BV8?

    -Does anyone have a better idea (conceptually or already constructed) for a digital media hub that still holds true to the core simplicities of this design concept as I've described it?  I know this may seem like a pretentious question, but it's not rhetorical.  I ask this as this audio / video hub concept does involve the rather time intensive "importing" of physical medias already owned, and I don't want to "import" those medias more than once.  If someone has some insight in to a rival system that could, in the future, potentially invalidate my current efforts, I'd really like to know that now.

     

    TIA for any insights (pro or con),

    Mark D 

    Mark D
  • 09-27-2008 4:43 PM In reply to

    • Sal
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    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    Hey Mark,

    Good to see you here again. I don't think your question is pretentious at all, and I really feel like there are quite a few core members here (and I am sure quite a few non-members across the world) who are Apple and B&O fans.

    First off, I'd like to comment on the fact that the BM/BS5 is not compatible with apple lossless (as has been stated elsewhere on these forums); which brings me to my first point about B&O always seeming to shoot itself in the foot by leaving out a feature. I won't bother listing the examples.

    Back to your main question.

    Although I don't own an AppleTV (yet). I do realize the great potential that it has. As an a la carte media hub it can't be beat... I should say that the only way it could be beat is if the B&O screen is connected to an actual Mac.

    Here's a setup I've been pondering (as I have a spare Powerbook G4) laying around.

    Connect an external HD to the PowerBook G4 (Drobo - expandable, and can grow with your media)... use iRED/irTrans to be able to control FrontRow, or the Mac's functions with the B&O remote (this may not be an issueif it's a Macbook with an IR receiver, one may be able to map complex functions to the Apple Remote itself). Use iTunes itself on the Mac (maybe  a Mini would be better suited for this purpose because of it's form factor), to serve up media.

    One can have the Mac "tethered" to another in the home with a shared library, where the other mac, can be the dedicated DVD ripper and podcaster, and the library can be shared continuously, so that as one piece of media gets downloaded, it is immediately available to the Mini and B&O screen.

    The Drobo connected either the Mini or the other Mac, can be the redundant repository for the music and videos. The storehouse for the iTunes libraries, or folders with video files.

    The Drobo can also be connected to the back of your Airport Extreme Basestation and can be your home's server, which can be used as the repository for ALL the media libraries.

    Through some nifty automator scripting (and a drop box), one need only to import media into the library once, from ANY mac, and the other macs (which can analyze the folder contents can know when files have been added), and re-consolidate the libraries when files are added to the drobo. Speaking of Automator scripting, some really amazing things can be accomplished with automator / applescript.

    I used to have a script which was always watching a particular folder in my office, when I came home from work and connected the computer to my home network, one script would transfer my work files to that particular folder, and another script, which noted that that folder had files in it all of a sudden, would spring into action and disseminate the files to the different places they needed to go, merely based on file name prefixes, and would delete the originals when the files were in their respective places.

    Anyway, enough of my own ramblings!

    I'd be keen on reading other's responses.

    In summary: B&O need to play well with Apple, especially. Always crippling their new products, especially their flagship products doesn't make any business sense.

    -Sal 

     

     

    Love B&O, but no longer addicted.
  • 09-27-2008 5:43 PM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
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    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    Sal,

    Thank you so much for taking the time to respond.  As someone that I've consulted in the past regarding some of these issues, your opinions are much valued.

    Regarding B&O "shooting itself in the foot", I completely agree.  Maybe I'm too melodramatic about these things (fruits of loving B&O and Apple), but I couldn't agree more.  It's as if we're watching a car wreck in slow motion and yet can't stop it.  I will give B&O credit, though, for being good about supporting things like the "iPod Remote" setting in the BV8 infra-red menu that allows for the Beo 4 to control the Apple TV.  You could argue that supporting Apple in this regard pits B&O against it's own product in this market (the Beomedia product), but, at least, they had the foresight to support this third party device and have subsequently sold B&O gear to people like you and I that probably wouldn't have purchased B&O otherwise if they hadn't been compatible in these regards.

    Regarding using the "Front Row" software on a Mac Mini or your current PowerBook to directly "drive" a B&O TV, I, too, at one time thought this was the way that Apple would go.  It only seems logical that a computer that was directly connected to a TV would provide for the most options in terms of realizing the dream of a "digital media hub".  In fact, I purchase a lot of Apples for others (no monetary renumeration, something I've essentially been sucked in to as a recognized Apple-phyte), and up until a few years ago, this is the way I'd set up flat panels for friends - i.e. I'd attach a MacMini to a large LCD flat panel and hide a Blue-toothed keyboard and mouse in the drawer of their living room coffee table.  However, in their infinite wisdom, Apple proved my premonitions wrong by showing that their concept of the digital media hub used a "dummy terminal" attached to a TV and "pushed" to this dummy terminal (i.e. the Apple TV) via a computer operating in the background.  For the record, I do realize that the Apple TV is more than a "dummy terminal" (heck, it's essentially a little computer in and of itself), but from the design philosophy of Apple, it functions as I've described.  I've gradually come to realize the brillaince of this decision on Apple's part, and it's humbling to realize how wrong I was about just how Apple would go about implimenting and approaching the proverbial "digital media hub".

    I, too, once garnered thoughts of having a "fire-wired" Drobos storage unit operating on my WiFi network in "NAS" mode.  But, I now realize that people smarter than me were able to see beyond the myopic vision of myself and others and implement a more elegant solution to the issue of how to set-up a digital audio-visual hub.  The solution is to have a central computer push media and constantly updating software to a cheap "iPod for the TV" (i.e. the Apple TV - i.e. what I believe will prevail as "the" digital media hub).

    Just my .02 cents. 

     

    Mark D
  • 09-27-2008 7:40 PM In reply to

    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    What I do not like about the Apple TV is that the way the software is designed and how limited it it is out of the box. It is reduced to be a client to the Itunes store.

    For example, I have my videos and my music on a shared Infrant/Netgear Readynas Duo. I must replicate to the ATV, I can't access the NAS from there directly even though it is simple and technically possible when hacking the unit.

    Even worse, even though my library file is shared on my wifi lan through the NAS, only 1 computer can be linked to the ATV. 

    When it comes to streaming music to an Airport express or ATV from Front Row. This was disabled in 10.5. You can only stream from Itunes.

    The ATV is not a bad device, however Apple even though they outspoke against DRM seem to cripple it. I am guessing this is leave the market share for a true media center untouched.

    My ATV has just video for now. HDD is not big enough for both my music collection and Video. I might buy another one just for music and take a Ipod touch as a remote.

    I looked at sonos for music only, but the remote is ugly.  I am looking forward to the BS5 but doubt that at this point they will have a 2 way remote which is a show stopper for me. In regards to the lossless faux pas, they can fix that down the line I would think. 

    I know many are positive about the BS5 but I recall the excitement I had when the BS3200 was released and how disappointed I was as I understood how to use it.

     

    JK 

     

     

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 09-28-2008 5:23 AM In reply to

    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    On the "crippling" of the ATV: Apple have to provide secure handling of files, in order to get as many providers as possible to come on board with their content. And that's working - recently with HBO joining with all of their shows and with NBC coming back.

    But Apple's goal is that content should be transportable from device to device once it has been bought.
    http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/

    ===

    This is an important thread, as it points to the future of how we will use A/V media. Some will probably choose to remain passive, and have broadcasters decide what they should watch and when, but most will not. My daughter and her friends do not watch broadcast television and haven't for years - any provider of audiovisual equipment who thinks that future success hinges on whether the unit has DVB-T has missed the point.

    The television is becoming a computer, and computers are becoming televisions - in other words, they are merging.

    I'm a Mac addict, for the very simple reason that Macs work, and enable users, particularly when it comes to the handling of audiovisual content - in fact, they are simply superior. Which makes it a real gamble to ignore Apple's solutions, or to hobble one's own offerings. I don't really see how B&O are going to compete with or outdo Apple's solutions. Right now, there are literally thousands of programmers working for Apple, expanding the capabilities of iPods, iPhones and the computers, through Applications Development - 98% of those programmers are not employed by Apple, but still work for Apple. In just a few months, my iPod Touch has delivered increased functionality to me, due to app-development, and the iPhone is "a miracle of rare device" - to put it mildly.

    And amazingly, all of this is integrated perfectly.

    As BeoNut1 says, do not look at the AppleTV alone, that is a mistake. Consider the principle, which is: The Digital Hub.

    Mac OSX provides a hub, expressed through enabled hardware, and this hub makes "digital living" simple.
    It's up to you how you define digital living -- if you're a professional photographer or person working with graphics, you have one set of needs; if you're a publisher - another; if you're a filmmaker you have yet another set -- but the digital hub can be easily adapted to your specific needs, and overdelivers to those needs at lower cost than competing platforms. This is proven in the professional arena, after years of development - I have photographer and filmmaker friends who would commit violence if someone tried to take their Macs away from them.

    Which begs the question: why should one hesitate to implement such a powerful tool in home entertainment?

    The Consumer Electronics arena is one of numbers and clout. The HD-Video Battle was one of trying to get the most clout, for one's own platform, before launching wide -- and the underlying fear was one of not "giving one platform too much power over suppliers of content." That's key in understanding the resistance against Apple's solutions.

    Combine the issue of clout with one of numbers, and you have all you need to really make the wrong decision. B&O looked at its customers, and noted that the absolute majority were Windows users - to the point where BeoSound 2 was initially launched without Mac drivers, and where we still have a third-party supplier of Mac functionality to BeoPort!
    What B&O failed to ask, beyond simply considering the number of users with Windows, was: Would our customers prefer Mac-functionality over Windows, if they could get it?
    In fact, the match between B&O analog interaction and the digital solutions Apple provides is 1:1, where going the Windows route is a step back, and I'm being generous. There's some prehistory to why B&O chose Windows, but it's not worth it to belabour the point. It's done. BeoMedia 1 tells the story, to put it mildly ...

    Sorry for being long-winded, but I think the perspective matters.

    So let's look at what Apple's digital hub can do for B&O users.

    BeoNut 1 has it right. The key is not AppleTV, but the computer driving the show behind. ATV can work on its own, attached to the net, and provides a simple solution. You can build on it by attaching a Mac mini or other computer (even a PC), which is what I have done, in order to also be able to go OUT on the net through a browser, something ATV does not deliver now, nor was it intended to.

    That combination - simple organization and playback of A/V content through ATV, with full net functionality through Mac mini - is available for a total of about USD 1000, with large capacity harddrives in both units. For most users, more harddisk storage space will not be required. What does USD 1000 give you? (Sum includes a bluetooth keyboard of the kind described by BeoNut1)

    1. HD-Video playback, now at 1080i/5.1DD, of movies and television series. Resolution can be higher.
    2. Full iTunes organization and playback of movies, podcasts, music, netradio.
    3. Multi-Room synchronization and playback, as well as wireless controll through iPhone/iPod Touch (additional purchases required.)
    4. Channeling of audio and video to screen(s), receivers, audiomasters.
    5. CD-ripping to harddisk. DVD-ripping also, if you wish.
    6. DVD-playback (Mac mini) -- with multi-channel surround to a receiver. All format decoding of sound, with HD-Audio expected in the near future from Apple.
    7. Ability to surf the net through browsers and other interfaces, while also providing full playback of net-sources through system.
    8. Integration with stand-alone, high-capacity NAS server.

    Etc.

    How hard is it to operate? Not hard at all. Is it perfectly integrated? No, there isn't one button operation, but it's very simple to set up and use. And integrated solutions are appearing.
    What is certain, is that the previous division into hardware compartments favored by manufacturers is gone.
    Manufacturers want to sell as many units as possible - which leads you to fill your living room with STB, DVD, VHS, pre-amplifier, amplifier, HDR, Home Entertainment Server, etc.

    Literally, all I need is a unit that translates the signals from the Mac mini and the ATV into something my screen and speakers understands, without reducing the resolution of those signals. The video output goes straight to my plasma, which handles the signal perfectly; and the audio output goes to my receiver, which sends it to my BeoLab 5/3 surround setup - digital to BeoLab 5s and analog to BeoLab 3s.

    Ideally, I would have liked it all to be integrated with B&O elegance and functionality, and maybe we'll get there one day, when B&O realizes that Apple's solution is going to become the new STANDARD for AV-playback. What has confused the picture is that B&O and other manufacturers have been unwilling to accept this - but that's silly, they can never match Apple's computer know-how, and computers are how we use digital media these days.
    There was a standard for playing back LPs - and that was a turntable with a stylus. B&O had no trouble manufacturing those.
    And when the standard came for putting digital files on CDs, B&O was among the first to create cutting-edge playback units that made the technology available to its customers.

    What B&O can never do is compete against the software/hardware integration that Apple has created. No one can compete with it - even Microsoft is complaining about the vertical integration of Apple's solution, in its report to shareholders as per SEC-requirements, stating that this gives a strong advantage to "a third party."
    The industry is coming to terms with this. Most other providers are offering iPod docks and connections - seeing that this is the new standard for playback of sound and image. BeoNut1 is far ahead of the curve, and uses the standard to free his A/V content, at home and when traveling.

    We should think of Apple's solutions as the new standard.
    And I know that some are saying that this will give Apple too much power - I don't think so, and no more than they deserve. Philips still gets paid for every CD and CD-player made - is that wrong? What Apple has done is create a very efficient and functional connection between providers and users of content. They'll charge for their own hardware and software - but what you pipe through them, and what is connected to them, can be a money maker just as a CD is a tool for sending music from a band to a fan.

    And B&O should have understood this in 2001, when the first iPod was launched.
    Have you tried to enter song-names into a BeoSound 3200 lately?

    With new management, B&O has an opportunity to leap-frog into how we want our A/V provided. B&O can take the signals that come from these units and make certain that the audiovisual experience you get, in your home, is unmatched by anyone else.

  • 09-28-2008 5:56 AM In reply to

    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    To your specific questions, BeoNut1:

    -Am I naive to think that I'll be able to rival the audio experience of something like the upcoming BS5 by simply re-encoding my music in Apple Lossless format and using a better DAC than that inherent to the BV8?

    The answer will have to wait until we have a functional BS5 available. B&O are very good with their DACs and playback circuits - there's a reason why BeoSound 2 sounded good.
    Sooloos is offering one competing solution already, of course: http://sooloos.com/www/index.php

    Linn has tried something similar with their NAS+DAC solution, with remote. But it's rather clunky. The audio circuitry is good, though - and they are promoting their high-resolution recordings, to be played back with the unit. http://www.linn.co.uk/digital_stream_players

    Loewe has also entered the fray, as have Philips with Streamium, etc.

    Macmini/ATV offers more than Linn's Klimax DS solution at about 1/10 the price. Though you'll have to add a stand-alone DAC, and then it's up to you how much that should cost. Audiophiles are willing to pay ridiculous amounts for a DAC in audiophile clothing.

  • 09-28-2008 9:47 AM In reply to

    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    >>On the "crippling" of the ATV: Apple have to provide secure handling of files<<

     That doesn't make any sense to me. If I can play the drm movie on Itunes from a NAS there is no reason why to restrict that from a ATV.

    The only thought I have on this that people might treat it like a portable harddrive and buy a movie once to share with the neighbors.

    An Apple TV like device with connection to a NAS, an Ipod Touch as a remote and a front end that puts own content into the foreground - that would be perfect.

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 09-28-2008 10:42 AM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
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    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    Soundproof and JK1002,

    Thank you so much for your insights - that's just the sort of discourse that I'd hoped to spawn.

    I'm consistantly guilty of thinking (wrongly) that the "next best thing since sliced bread" is just around the corner.  However, I do believe that the coming months will reveal some surprises from Apple that may answer some of the questions that were posed (particularly those by JK1002).

    Apple is going to have to deal with the fruits of their success: individuals and families with large, mixed, media libraries.  I've tried figuring out just how Apple will do this, but my mental capacity is too lacking.  Maybe they'll go to the Sun ZFS file system with OX 10.6 and use this new way of organizing files on a hard drive to journal a piece of central NAS-like hardware that functions similarly to a Drobo unit with a self-healing RAID array from inherent software.  They'd then have proprietary software on the NAS-like device that could protect DRM files on those central hard drives.  I don't know, but I suspect that regardless of whichever way Apple approaches these issues, they'll still make use of the current Apple TVs and therefore still ascribe to the same general system set-up (i.e. the "dummy terminal" philosophy).

    I do, for the record, anticipate Apple giving us a new Apple TV before Christmas, and I hope that this new device will give some insight in to just how Apple plans on integrating all these things in the future.

    I realize that few in this forum probably feel this way, but I sure would love for the BS5 to simply function as the "middleman" in an AV set-up and facilitate hooking B&O hardware (specifically speakers) to devices like the Apple TV.  To make the most use of this digital stream, the BS5 would incorporate superb DACs and also allow the non-technophile to easily get things like surround sound out of video files and in to a surround speaker set-up.

     

    Mark D
  • 09-28-2008 6:11 PM In reply to

    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    The trouble with Apple is, that one expects so much and they deliver so little. It is like making baby steps with them. Trouble is, they have the market position so that they can take their time.

    A true Mediacenter that can handle distribution of DRM protected files and a multi user library I would think is 2 years out. I don't think we see much more then updated powerbooks and macbooks and maybe speed bumps on the imac. Their focus is clearly iphone.

     

    P.s. 

    I am still miffed that the mobile me service doesnt work with Internet Explorer. I use that at work Mr Jobs and can't install software as I wish.

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 09-28-2008 6:22 PM In reply to

    • benjnz
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    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    I tend to agree, maybe Apple would bring out an updated ATV with more disk, who know's.

    A media centre is a tricky thing for anyone to get right, let alone Apple or B&O. I just don't know where things are going, again we'll have to wait until BS5 comes out. I agree that if they are going to make it a true media centre then they should make it to be able to play any audio format, after all isn't that what B&O are essentially know for, their audio?

    What worries me is that the cost of BS5 will out strip it's potential features, again who knows?! Unsure

    Anyway B&O should really address the next level down in their media chain, by looking at BeoPort to essentially be upgraded to more functionality within win & mac, but then again why would they if that removes potential sales? Then again there is the arguement of shouldn't they have a series of product offerings at differing price levels, just as TVs, as not all of us can afford a BV9 by any stretch of the imagination?

  • 09-28-2008 8:23 PM In reply to

    • expoman
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    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    Rumor at Gizmodo is that on tuesday Sept 30 Apple will have a live web event to launch a New Apple TV product?

     

    http://gizmodo.com/5055934/rumor-apple-tv-changes-afoot 

  • 09-28-2008 8:56 PM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
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    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    Actually, it looks like that rumor was just revealed to be wrong:

    http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09/27/apple-tv-to-be-replaced/

    I knew it couldn't be true as I'd predicted an update soon and my Apple / B&O expectations are rarely, if ever, fulfilled in a timely manner.

    Mark D
  • 09-28-2008 9:46 PM In reply to

    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    They already retracted that sort of, no update it seems. Even if they would do one, that would not bring a media center that handles multiple libraries or files shared on a network. For that they would do a bigger announcement and it would not be in line with their model of constant minor improvements. It could be that they release something improved by macworld early next year but I am guessing their resources are focused on the iphone or phone market in general. Iphone Nano anyone? 

    I think there is still a place for B&O and as most of us are attracted to their audio and video products we will droll about whatever they do with digital as well if they get the design right. They compete for years with Sony and friends and Apple is not that much different except that they have a "lifestyle" brand as well. Question is will one be happy adopting the lifestyle of a college student? Their new Ipod touch demo units in my local store were completely trashed a week after launch. Most of their music is still sold in 128, far away from lossless or anything I would want to bother my BL3 with.

    I would think most of us still buy CDs and rip them - If B&O gets music playing right and trump apple with design and workmanship I can see them succeed simply because Apple will not go after the high end high price market. I also don't mind having 2 devices for video and music. 2 different animals. It just remains to be seen what B&O really has in stock, did they understand or is it another BV8 1 HDMI no surround release. I can hear them argue that a portable tablet with the function of a BS5 would be too heavy to carry around with a glas of wine in the other hand and that's why its cemented on a podest. Beosound 9000 couldn't be done either, huh?

    That they don't do Apple lossless is a bit of a bummer, even though I think I would be fine if it does 320kbps AAC. Maybe the lossless AAC wouldn't work with their MOTS technology. Who knows.

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 09-28-2008 10:32 PM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
    • Top 500 Contributor
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    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    JK 1002 wrote:

    "A true Mediacenter that can handle distribution of DRM protected files and a multi user library I would think is 2 years out."

    Obviously, I hope it doesn't take that long.

    One nice thing about the way Apple appears to be organizing the way we ingest digital media is the fact that a central computer in the background is really running the show.  Like I mentioned earlier, before the advent of the Apple TV, I wrongly assumed that we'd see something on the level of the Mac Mini serving as the digital conduit to our TVs.  However, by relying on one central computer to drive the cheaper, less powerful computers (i.e. the Apple TVs), a consumer has much less of an investment in the hardware attached to their TVs.

    I see the Apple TV as an "iPod for TVs"; just like each of my kids has an iPod that syncs with my computer, each of my TVs has an Apple TV that wirelessly syncs with my "heavy" desktop.  The Apple TV is unique amongst my other connected TV components (DVD, VCR, cable box, etc.), in that it is designed to be easily upgradable.  As an aside, when I switched to Apple computers about 7 years ago, I gradually came to realize that I kept and used the Apples even when they were quite old; with Windows machines, I upgraded every couple of years and really didn't use the older machines too much.  Being able to get several years out a computer is only possible if the software is very well written which OS X is.  I'd therefore assert that the Apple TVs (small computers running OS X), are going to prove to be very resiliant in terms of their "future-proof-ness".

    Also, because the primary machine that's doling out the digital media also serves as my central, primary computer, it remains constantly updated in terms of software / hardware.

    I see the merits of Apple's "dummy terminal" concept for media distribution, and I obviously trust in their foresight when it comes to this subject.

    Mark D
  • 09-28-2008 10:49 PM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
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    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    "I also don't mind having 2 devices for video and music. 2 different animals."

    JK 1002, I respectfully disagree.  The older I get, the more simplicity I desire in my life.  The appeal of the digital media hub concept is that all the physical media goes away as does the need for many of the devices that translate that media.  I want less components, and, in addition, the devices that remain in my A/V set-up are expected to perform double duty - for instance, I like the concept of the ever more pervasive flat panel serving as the menu for my audio files or serving as picture frame for family photos or videos, etc.

    Mark D. 

    P.S.  One other benefit that I didn't foresee with the Apple TV set-up that is a much more rudimentary attribute: I no longer have to worry about my young children scratching up CDs and DVDs. 

    Mark D
  • 09-29-2008 12:02 AM In reply to

    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    I like simplicity as well. Long term I think avoiding Apple for media is like trying to avoid Windows back in 2000. I am not so keen on video, for music though I don't think I would be happy perusing my collection through a Ipod Touch and I don't want my TV to be on for that even though the integration through the STB works like a charm.

    I might take a look at the Touch if the BS5 doesn't live up to my expectations but for now I hold tight.

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 09-29-2008 8:17 AM In reply to

    • BeoNut1
    • Top 500 Contributor
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    Re: BV8 / Apple TV musings and questions for the group

    JK1002,

    As a general rule, I don't like leaving a TV or other device on either.  From my perspective, though, having the audio menu on the TV (as opposed to a smaller screen on a dedicated audio player) really makes it easy to peruse your audio collection while doing other things - like cooking in the adjoining kitchen.  I've reconciled myself to the fact that the TV has to be on to facilitate this by only using (and planning on using) LCDs or LCD-like technology.  Are you less averse to the TV being left on if it's LCD?

    Also, this is an area where B&O (in an ideal world) could design and manufacture their equipment to better compliment the Apple software / hardware and thereby differentiate themselves from the rest of the market.  For instance, they could develop some sort of "Apple audio mode" for their flat panels that essentially amounted to a fancy "sleep" mode whereby the TV screen goes off a minute or two after the last input from a remote when in this mode.  This mode would obviously leave stereo speakers on - even if they were connected to the TV.

     

    Mark D
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