aint sure if the july prize draw indeed took place; kindly enlighten; probably going further we should have draw sample representative of each country or location; this would enhance chances of wining for members like me who do not feature in the invoke set. moderators could you throw up how many members from the indian sub-contineent            

You can view the prize draw at the link bleow.

JULY 2008 PRIZE DRAW 

Craig

 

Pattabhiraman:

....this would enhance chances of wining for members like me who do not feature in the invoke set.       

I'm really sorry, but do i understand that you think you are not winning in the draw because you are technically from a minority?

Lee

 

Pattabhiraman:

aint sure if the july prize draw indeed took place; kindly enlighten; probably going further we should have draw sample representative of each country or location; this would enhance chances of wining for members like me who do not feature in the invoke set. moderators could you throw up how many members from the indian sub-contineent            

 

For crying out.....

 Look, you have a number, I have a number and so does everyone. If your number comes up you win. It has nothing to do with where you reside. If you live on an island on your own in the middle of the pacific you have just as much chance of winning as me or anybody else.

Do you think Lee knows individuals from all over the world enough to fix some sort of dodgy lottery? He must have given away 130+ prizes so far to different worldwide members and must be applauded. He has also gone to great lengths to explain how it's done and checked by others. To keep getting hassle from paranoid members must be painful.   

It beggars belief, doesn't it?
I guess you can please all the people some of the time. and some of the people all the time but not all the people all the time.

 

PS, I wear glasses and haven't won for ages, it's so unfair!!

Every gold member has the same chances to win, wherever he lives. I think you misunderstood something in the rules and regulations.

I understand the premise - it would be more fun if all areas of the world saw prizewinners each month. However some areas have very few members - I don't think you are suggesting that the same person gets a prize each month! As it is, all gold members have an equal chance of winning every prize. It is possible, though very improbable, that one person could win all the prizes one month. The fact that there are relatively few members means that your chances of winning are very high for this type of draw. However the likeliest outcome is I am afraid that you win nothing. If this was not the case, the prizes would have to be Smarties!

i am statisician and work for Nielsen India (world leaders in market research); if you can reveal the mechanics of the draw i can further add to it by being more scientific

Okay...

On the day of the draw, as near to the actual draw time as possible, i download an Excel spreadsheet with every current Gold Member on it. Each Gold Member has an individual number on the left hand side of the spreadsheet, and the members get nearer to the top of the spreadsheet as their remaining membership shortens. So, in effect - if you are due up for renewal the day after the draw you will probably be number 1 through to 5 or 6, and after renewing you will be around 550 or so. i hope that's clear.

I then go to random.org and request a number sequence starting with 1 and ending in the individual number of the last member.. let's say 572. I ask it to select 10 random numbers, one at a time, between 1 and 572 inclusive. This way, every member has a fresh chance of winning as the numbers are chosen automatically, one at a time, between 1 and 572. 

I am truly sorry if this appears an underhand or 'fixed' way of doing it, but i'm no professional mathematician or statistician like yourself Pattabhiraman and simply thought this was a pretty good way of doing it. If it makes you feel better, we have one Brazilian member - and he won a few months ago!!

As i mentioned before, if someone else wants to draw the numbers - or indeed do the draw, it would certainly be a reduction in my already full workload!  I do it because i really enjoy it and it gives something back to the loyal members that support the site financially, not to distribute prizes to members in countries with the most members or such like.

I'm not offended by all this - just to make it clear. Everyone has the right to ask how it's done, but i am at a complete loss as to how to make it more fair or transparent.  

Lee

 

What is there to be more scientific about?

There are around 500-600 ( since I dont know the exact figure let's call it x) gold members and each has been allocated a number. Each month a random number generator on the net is used to select 10 random numbers and the corresponding members win the prizes. Simple!

 Also simple.

If you don't agree don't join.

Also simple.

I pay my £30 to help fund the site. I renewed my subscription to help fund the site. I would not care if there was no draw, I would still pay to help fund the site.

I am sure that using statistics you can prove that you should have won every month but that's statistics for you!

Rant over, simple.

Lee,

Perhaps you could add this info somewhere in the Prize Rules? Might save you having to explain it each time.

 

At the very least we could point the members towards it who get miffed because they didn't win £1000.00 worth of kit within two months joining.

Steve

joeyboygolf:

I pay my £30 to help fund the site. I renewed my subscription to help fund the site. I would not care if there was no draw, I would still pay to help fund the site.

Graham, I could not agree more with your comment. Yes, I enjoy the prize draw every month. If I win something then that is a bonus, but I would pay £30 a year just to fund the site. All the extras that come with it, manual downloads, been able to use the for sale and wanted forums. Are just that to me, extras. As for the mechanics of the prize draw I don't see a better way of been able to do it than is been used at the moment.

 

Craig

My 10ps worth

Like Graham, I couldnt careless about the draw and my loyalty or whatever you want to call it lies with the survival of the site.  If I am lucky enough to win a prize, fantastic! Its a bonus! and just that! However, its not something I dwell on nor is it something that causes me to have a whine and moan about not winning... something liverpool fans are acustomed to when it comes to.... nah wont go there!

Again, regarding how the draw works, is it really neccassary?  I daresay that there is probably a healthy split on non UK memebers who have won so again I simply do not see the point of someone living on the subcontinent and that being the basis for a review on how the draw is carried out.

 

I just tried it! I didn't win!

The method Lee is using is completely fair, and expecting him to have this notarized would be too much, wouldn't it?

I just went to Random.org, and used the Integer generator.

Asked for ten numbers.

Specified the range from 1-572.

Then I just imagined that my number was 363.

I asked for numbers and got the ones below. As you can see, no cigar for me ... 

BTW - I noticed a comment after the latest draw that someone was suspicious because the same member had won in more than just one draw. Given the nature of randomness, it would actually be more suspicious if (after a year of draws) there hadn't been a repeat. Then one could suspect Lee of going in and "fixing that" -- but he just goes by the numbers generated.

Also note what Lee says about printing out a list before each draw, where the members' names are listed according to date to expiration of membership. This means that you have (most likely) a new number for each draw. 

Adding - specifying that the number generator should deliver 10 numbers ensures that there are no repeat wins within the same draw; while asking for 1 number at a time, ten times within the same range, may result in the same number coming up more than once.

My only explanation for not winning is that I must somehow have dropped off the list - ahem!  :-)

Here's what I got when I asked for ten numbers:

 

soundproof:

I just tried it! I didn't win!

The method Lee is using is completely fair, and expecting him to have this notarized would be too much, wouldn't it?

I just went to Random.org, and used the Integer generator.

Asked for ten numbers.

Specified the range from 1-572.

Then I just imagined that my number was 363.

I asked for numbers and got the ones below. As you can see, no cigar for me ... 

BTW - I noticed a comment after the latest draw that someone was suspicious because the same member had won in more than just one draw. Given the nature of randomness, it would actually be more suspicious if (after a year of draws) there hadn't been a repeat. Then one could suspect Lee of going in and "fixing that" -- but he just goes by the numbers generated.

Also note what Lee says about printing out a list before each draw, where the members' names are listed according to date to expiration of membership. This means that you have (most likely) a new number for each draw. 

Adding - specifying that the number generator should deliver 10 numbers ensures that there are no repeat wins within the same draw; while asking for 1 number at a time, ten times within the same range, may result in the same number coming up more than once.

My only explanation for not winning is that I must somehow have dropped off the list - ahem!  :-)

Here's what I got when I asked for ten numbers:

 

So close Soundproof, you nearly won, better luck next time  

OK - to increase the chance of others winning I'm willing to do the following -

As I have an (approximate) 1 in 50 chance of winning a prize in the monthly draw and there are 12 draws per year, I sould statiscally win something every 4 1/6th years. As I intend maintainly my membership for the next 21 years I'll just take my five prizes now and butt out of the competition.

Hope this helps,

mobeyone:

My 10ps worth

Like Graham, I couldnt careless about the draw and my loyalty or whatever you want to call it lies with the survival of the site.  If I am lucky enough to win a prize, fantastic! Its a bonus! and just that! However, its not something I dwell on nor is it something that causes me to have a whine and moan about not winning... something liverpool fans are acustomed to when it comes to.... nah wont go there!

Again, regarding how the draw works, is it really neccassary?  I daresay that there is probably a healthy split on non UK memebers who have won so again I simply do not see the point of someone living on the subcontinent and that being the basis for a review on how the draw is carried out.

 

In the words of Metloaf - "You Took The Words Right Out Of My Mouth" Mobe.

Chris.

Puncher:

OK - to increase the chance of others winning I'm willing to do the following -

As I have an (approximate) 1 in 50 chance of winning a prize in the monthly draw and there are 12 draws per year, I sould statiscally win something every 4 1/6th years. As I intend maintainly my membership for the next 21 years I'll just take my five prizes now and butt out of the competition.

Hope this helps,

Lee,

Send Puncher five BeoWorld pens and strike him off the list! 

 

soundproof:

Lee,

Send Puncher five BeoWorld pens and strike him off the list! 

 

Done.

He has been.

Lee

He-he. If I win anything I'll split with Puncher!

Very Funny!

However I would only accept a statistical spread of prizes such as 1, 3, 5, 7 &9th

I joined, and renewed my membership, to support the site and get access to all the info, manuals, contacts, sell and buy, blogs etc etc.

The monthly draw is a great added bonus (not that I have won anything so far mind you!)

Keep up the great work Lee and keep it random!