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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 07-24-2008 4:34 AM by j0hnbarker. 70 replies.
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  • 07-23-2008 3:56 AM In reply to

    • ed7
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-06-2007
    • uk
    • Posts 297
    • Bronze Member

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    moxxey:
    Peter :

    Goodness - what an unpleasant thread

    It's not that unpleasant Peter. Just a debate :)

    Yes, I can imagine the BV9 is stunning. The problem is, it's nearly twice the price of the BV7-40.

    i agree with moxxey it is a debateStick out tongue,NO way i will fall for b&o sets again!! once bitten??!!,i am saving for new merc e-class(new shape) next year !!!!i think money better spent!!Big Smile

  • 07-23-2008 4:38 AM In reply to

    • ®
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-01-2007
    • UK
    • Posts 970
    • Founder

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    Peter :

    Goodness - what an unpleasant thread.

    but as always, the most entertaining. Devil

  • 07-23-2008 10:08 AM In reply to

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    I think we run into the same discussion over and over. Not sure why people get so involved with it.

     

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 07-23-2008 10:27 AM In reply to

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    I have no problems with debate - even heated ones, but I don't regard personal attack as debate. 355F is a well respected member of this forum and his reputation was called into question - I regard that as unpleasant. Personally, I think he deserves an apology. He is well known to both Lee and myself and has been very helpful to the forum in the past. I hope he will continue to be.
  • 07-23-2008 10:37 AM In reply to

    • ed7
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-06-2007
    • uk
    • Posts 297
    • Bronze Member

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    Peter :
    I have no problems with debate - even heated ones, but I don't regard personal attack as debate. 355F is a well respected member of this forum and his reputation was called into question - I regard that as unpleasant. Personally, I think he deserves an apology. He is well known to both Lee and myself and has been very helpful to the forum in the past. I hope he will continue to be.

    i agree with you here peterYes -  thumbs up

  • 07-23-2008 10:53 AM In reply to

    • Dave
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Brisbane, Australia
    • Posts 2,328
    • Bronze Member

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    Sorry this is off topic, oh and i do agree, we mustn't attack one another on here it's a great place. It's un-called for... anywho, hey ed7, you said you've been once bitten, what happened?? I agree a new merc is better money spending - the new shape may also be a return to the good old fashioned 'over engineering' that was last seen in the W124

    “Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”

    Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.

     

     

  • 07-23-2008 11:41 AM In reply to

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    i agree with peter on the silly comments re 355f

    particularly from trip english who really should know better and does a great disservice to bno's 'dealer' reputation imo with his 'jokes' aimed at us 'customers' 

    it's this kind of arrogance that i so detest in shops and why i buy a lot of things on line so as to cut out the 'oh so helpful' sales staff 

    popgear is grate™

  • 07-23-2008 11:45 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
    • Bronze Member

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    Flappo The Grate:

    particularly from trip english who really should know better and does a great disservice to bno's 'dealer' reputation imo with his 'jokes' aimed at us 'customers' 

    But this means we're now attacking TripEnglish! The policy should apply to all.

  • 07-23-2008 11:51 AM In reply to

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    "People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids?...It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. We’ll, we’ll get our justice....Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out."

    -rodney king -may 1, 1992
    • B&o bottle opener
  • 07-23-2008 11:52 AM In reply to

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    ok

    and as for that flappo

     he's disgraceful and should be ashamed of himself !!!

     bannings too good for the likes of him

     

    :)

     

    happy now ? 

    popgear is grate™

  • 07-23-2008 3:00 PM In reply to

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    moxxey:
    Flappo The Grate:

    particularly from trip english who really should know better and does a great disservice to bno's 'dealer' reputation imo with his 'jokes' aimed at us 'customers' 

    But this means we're now attacking TripEnglish! The policy should apply to all.

    Completely agree - I have no problem with Trip either. If you want to gratuitously insult people, please do it out of sight of me! Laughing

  • 07-23-2008 3:04 PM In reply to

    • Jandyt
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 04-01-2007
    • Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
    • Posts 13,004
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    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    Flappo The Grate:

    ok

    and as for that flappo

     he's disgraceful and should be ashamed of himself !!!

     bannings too good for the likes of him

     

    :)

     

    happy now ? 

    LaughingLaughingLaughing

    So you do speak sense sometimes FlappoWink

    Poor me, never win owt!

  • 07-23-2008 3:48 PM In reply to

    • Dude1
    • Top 500 Contributor
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    • Joined on 09-18-2007
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    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    unfortuantly, what seems to happen consistently on these forums is the topic gets quickly forgotten.  Then we all start attacking one another. Shame really.
  • 07-23-2008 4:55 PM In reply to

    • moxxey
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-14-2007
    • South West, UK
    • Posts 2,360
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    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    Dude, that's the same on any forum. Have you ever seen the Manchester Utd forum? My oh my!

    It's waaaaay more tricky to be polite through email/chat/forum. It's so easy to come across as cold and blunt. It happens a lot for me ;)

    Often a 'personal attack' can seem very personal, when it's more of a criticism or questioning observation, directed at an individual. I have absolutely no issues with 355f, but I do often question his negativity. However, I still welcome his comments..! Keep posting!

  • 07-23-2008 5:59 PM In reply to

    • 355f
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 655
    • Bronze Member

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    moxxey:

    Dude, that's the same on any forum. Have you ever seen the Manchester Utd forum? My oh my!

    It's waaaaay more tricky to be polite through email/chat/forum. It's so easy to come across as cold and blunt. It happens a lot for me ;)

    Often a 'personal attack' can seem very personal, when it's more of a criticism or questioning observation, directed at an individual. I have absolutely no issues with 355f, but I do often question his negativity. However, I still welcome his comments..! Keep posting!

    Im sure if we were all to meet person to person our views would change and there would be a greater understanding of an individuals perspective.

    For many, the view is purely that of a consumer- and any comments are geared to that experience

    For others, the view is a technical one and thats valid also.

    But views can change! individuals that posted on here some time ago I could never agree with and yet now 12 months on Im in agreement with almost every post by that individual.

    Myself, its a manufacturing view and I have bought many of the B&O offerings. And my view I accept is not always correct but the frustration I have relates to the fact that B&O as a brand makes more GP than any other brand in the business and by some great margin- So thats roughly 60% of a purchasers cash to B&O to do as they choose.

    I dont expect the very latest technology or the lowest in pricing but they should do a lot better in offering the consumer something better than they are presently offered. The best panels should go into the products for a start. Is it really rocket science to ensure that when offering a software update it will work in a flawless manner with the two most widely available connection box choices, sky and ps3. Every company I know in China producing for some pretty downmarket brands( 40" LCD $170 FOB HK ) all do this- because if these problems arise when its shipped all the customers will return the product. Is it really to much to expect the beo5 to be able to control a limited range of new B&O products without fault and constant return to the dealers? lets face it its not an 'advanced product'

     In the case of BS3 why does it not support HDMA - it could easlily have been engineered in such a way that this could have been an easy retrofit- but no, it will be an expensive fix and a software mess to change it. Why then dont they include it from now on on new purchases?

    Well because no one makes a fuss about it and presumably happy to spend out another £3K  in a PX  to give that feature but as a brand B&O makes a lot more money by not bothering at all! and one thing is clear - actually they have not bothered much in recent times which is why the downturn is more severe now than otherwise it could have been.

    My feelings are that B&O as a company still has a somewhat detached stance from the real world of consumer electronics that is endemic throughout the company and I dont feel the appointment of a new CEO  is going to change the world that is B&O in anything like a short time.

    I accept that  a site like this should be to support each other with product issues and be supportive of the brand as a whole and I am guilty of not being supportive; surely however B&O should get the message loud and clear that actually whats taken place in the past isnt really on anymore and whilst many will say these points have been made repetitiously and as a company they are more than aware, some of my recent dealings and understanding of their latest developments and the product structure give me real doubt of the ability of this business to change quickly enough.

    I also appreciate a dealers perspective. Its not nice to see product derided that one is trying to sell and there has to be middle ground- Just be careful however when making statements like ' do you really want to buy 'that cheap Sony crap from China' when in fact within 12 months your store will be selling items sourced there.

    In closing I will refrain from making negative posts. I suppose I am sufficiently keen on the brand to want it to progess and see it make a valuable contribution to higher end AV but unless there is a sea change the future is uncertain which cant be blamed at the door of an economic downturn thats only been with us for 6 months.

    The individuals who contribute to this forum are without exception intelligent  - if there is a post that brings about strong dissagreement then said individuals should be able to bring about strong contrary argument that renders the original post  a lame misunderstanding rather than doubting one owns the products or 'you dont understand B&O'

     

  • 07-23-2008 6:47 PM In reply to

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    355f, best post so far. I'll postpone my retirement for at least a few more contentious threads! One of the reasons that I didn't initially "come out" as a dealer (I can't even remember now whether I admitted it or was "outed") was for threads like this. I'm fairly passionate and I've become aware that passion often translates into "agression" when typed into a forum where no one can see the smirk on my face. So I always feel taken out of context, but in re-reading my posts, I'd probably react the same way. Go figure.

    Though they can be eye-melting to read through, I'm a fan of the "essay post" as I think it always comes off as a bit better rounded. Reading through 355f's post, I found myself often in agreement, but we'd likely never agree if we kept it to a few sentences. Who knows. I even found myself on Flappo's side recently!

    I also don't want to give the impression that I'm categorically in favor of everything Bang & Olufsen do. I think if you talked to people in Chicago or DK, none of them would think that I was satisfied with anything! So, while I agree with much of what 355f says in terms of the manufacturing reality, my comments trend toward the consumer point of view. I started out as a consumer and was lured into the business where my passion developed even further. When I hear about all the potential products or the CES type products and the betas and the prototypes, I think back to what Steve Jobs once said: Real artists ship. That has kept Apple so focused on not only well designed products, but products that are complete and robust operationally, that they have set themselves apart in computing as the last refuge of sanity. Having to sit at a desk and use Windows every day has to be at least as harmful as second hand smoke!

    What I mean by this is that for all the wild and ambitious products and concepts that exist out there, most of them exist wholly or partially in the "vapor." What impressed me as a Bang & Olufsen owner (my role previous to dealer) was that they offered me a world of operation where if I was willing to do without the more exotic fraction of features, I got a world of beautiful objects that were made to live together in harmony. I'm also someone who values design, both aesthetically and operationally. Since we deal in custom systems from my shop, I regularly deal with or even install alternatives to BeoLink and 3rd party flat panels. I'm never impressed with their build quality or ease of use and have found the concept of the universal remote to be too much of a hassle to set up, use, and adjust downstream. Not that it's impossible, mind you, but simply nothing compared to the elegance of a Beo 4 (and I have to admit, the Beo 5, though there was a time its very existence frustrated me). Additionally, the materials used in the construction are superb. I've liked the "look" of other products, but when I get up close and touch them the magic is gone. It's like using Windows (not to belabor the point). Sure it's functional, and if you get really good at it you can get it to do everything a Mac does and probably more, but Mac has style from minute one. For me personally, and I can say most of my customers, that's the beauty. If they wanted to become savvy insiders, they could make any franken-system work, but they don't. I'm just glad we're here for that small slice of the population.

     

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 07-23-2008 6:54 PM In reply to

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    TripEnglish:

    I think I'm going to retire. Hang my jersey from the rafters. Wink

    That's a shame Trip. Why you couldn't 'retire' your endless sarcasm and relentlessly condescending attitude towards certain forum members is beyond me. Many of your posts were entertaining/useful and were a positive contribution to the site as a whole - are you sure you couldn't agree to disagree with some of the views expressed here???

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 07-23-2008 7:46 PM In reply to

    • symmes
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-21-2007
    • Freedonia
    • Posts 290
    • Bronze Member

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    "I think I'm going to retire. Hang my jersey from the rafters. Wink"

     

     

    From what I read it's not the jersey that would be hanging. Smile

  • 07-23-2008 8:09 PM In reply to

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    I think I generally do agree to disagree. I would level the same charge at others, but as you can see from 355f's post and my subsequent edit, even us severe partisans can be reasonable (and even agreeable) in a more lyrical format! As I've said, I think that the more passionate the poster is (myself included) the more they need to type in order to take the edge off. To me, if I'm only going to type a few lines, they're all going to be direct. It's my essays that probably give a better impression of me (hopefully!)

    To you specifically, John, I do wish you'd give me a break as to my identity as a dealer. I never intended to mislead anyone, but as you can imagine, it's not always welcomed for employess to be active on forums like this. Now that I'm a little mnore comforatble, it's been smooth sailing and I've been nothing but forthright ever since!

    Anywho, I'm glad page three has brought some civility!

    Cheers,

    Trip

    There is scarcely anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin

  • 07-23-2008 9:39 PM In reply to

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    Trip,

    You mentioned Chicago and DK.  You don't happen to run State St. in Chicago, do you?  If so, I've purchased some things (albeit smaller ones!) from there and have probably met you.

    If not, then I haven't met you obviously!

    Just curious....

    - Aaron 

  • 07-24-2008 4:34 AM In reply to

    Re: ZOMG!!! B&O are so far behind!!!

    TripEnglish:

    To you specifically, John, I do wish you'd give me a break as to my identity as a dealer. I never intended to mislead anyone, but as you can imagine, it's not always welcomed for employess to be active on forums like this. Now that I'm a little mnore comforatble, it's been smooth sailing and I've been nothing but forthright ever since!

    Fair enough Trip - I'll put that one to bed.

    All I will say as a final point, is that some of your posts have gone a long way to proving the point you make above, regarding a dim view being taken of employees being active on enthusiast fora such as this! 

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

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