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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 07-14-2008 5:23 PM by anampersand. 21 replies.
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  • 07-11-2008 6:14 PM

    Quadraphonic sound

    My audio system comprises a Beogram 5500, Beocord 5500, Beomaster 5500 and Beosound 9000 feeding via a Beosystem 3 to Lab 5s (front), Lab 3s (rear) and Lab 10 (centre). If I were to replace the Beogram 5500 and Beomaster 5500 with a Beogram 6000 (quadraphonic turntable) and Beomaster 6000 (quadraphonic amp) would I able to get true quad sound from vinyl through the system?
  • 07-12-2008 12:59 AM In reply to

    • PL212
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    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    Your challenge will be to get the discrete 4-channel sound from the BM6000 into the BeoSystem 3. Looking at the back of that I can't see any easy way to do so, save some kind of outboard analog surround to SP/DIFF encoder.
  • 07-12-2008 1:02 AM In reply to

    • PL212
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    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    Actually it looks this outboard encoder just might do it:

     

    http://www.soundblaster.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=16&product=14191&nav=0

  • 07-12-2008 3:31 AM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    I really wouldn't bother! I would look at surround sound instead. Quad records were at the beginning of surround sound and the technology and the mixing of the albums are both pretty basic. The BG6000 does produce 4 discrete channels though , all at line level, so I am sure there is a solution.
  • 07-12-2008 3:53 AM In reply to

    • Kokomo
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    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    politician:
    My audio system comprises a Beogram 5500, Beocord 5500, Beomaster 5500 and Beosound 9000 feeding via a Beosystem 3 to Lab 5s (front), Lab 3s (rear) and Lab 10 (centre). If I were to replace the Beogram 5500 and Beomaster 5500 with a Beogram 6000 (quadraphonic turntable) and Beomaster 6000 (quadraphonic amp) would I able to get true quad sound from vinyl through the system?

    It all depends on the what you consider "true quad sound". True quadrophonic reproduction has to be based on a sound source originally recorded with four channels. In the 70s quite a number of quadrophonic vinyl records were issued. Do you have these or similar?

    Instead of 2 channel stereo sound in their grooves they had 4. Of course to extract the information a special 4 channel stylus was required with a 4 channel amp and 4 speakers. 

    To be pedantic, there is no such thing as a "quadraphonic turntable". A turntable 'merely' revolves the disc. It cannot discriminate between a mono, stereo or quadrophonic disc. Likewise, the arm. It's only the stylus that can do this. Do you have a 4 channel stylus?

    Many of the alternative "quadrophonic" systems were based upon different methods of electronically manipulating a basic stereo sound to retain the front stereo image and send other sounds to rear speakers, usually consisting of extracted bits from the basic stereo mix. 

     

  • 07-12-2008 4:46 AM In reply to

    • beoaus
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    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    I have the Beogram 6000 Quad, the correct cartridges and a Beomaster 3400, + 4x RL60's. I also have many suitable records. Its something I have thought about for some time.

    Would be great to be able to get the 4 channel sound into my other B&O equipment. Though for the time being the system is pretty darn good.

    BTW the Mike Oldfield and Led Zep records really sound quite amazing...

    I hope there is some technical solution to getting 4 channel sound into todays systems.

    Beoaus.

  • 07-12-2008 5:17 AM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    Yes beoaus, it was Mike Oldfield who started me thinking along these lines: I recently acquired one of the older 60GB Playstation 3s in order to play SACDs, and bought the SACD of "Tubular Bells". It's absolutely breathtaking, and on conducting a little research I discovered that this wasn't in fact a new 5.1 mix, but the old quad mix remastered.

    I don't have many quadraphonic records at the moment kokomo, apart from (ironically) a four LP boxed set of Mike Oldfield, but I've found a number I'd like on eBay and GEMM. My favourite band Jefferson Airplane in fact issued about seven of them over their career. At this stage, I don't have any quad equipment: I'm assuming the Beogram 6000 came with its own quadraphonic stylus, and that these can still be picked up today (whether secondhand, new old stock or via Soundsmith)? Would I be wrong in that assertion?
  • 07-12-2008 7:38 AM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    There are a couple of problems:

    1. The records - if they have been played in an unsuitable record player, the rear channels can be wrecked. This because the sound is encoded at 20-45kHz and then converted back by the electronics in the BG6000. A heavily tracking cartridge can destroy the grooves.

    2. The suspension of the cartridge will be hardening. Not usually a problem with stereo but to track at 45kHz, it makes a difference. You will probably need a new Soundsmith SMMC20CL. Not cheap!

  • 07-13-2008 1:27 AM In reply to

    • beoaus
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    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    Interesting comment on the BG6000 Line level output....  All I would need is a cable and converter of some sort.  After all the problems with the PC input cable I'm not sure about delving into creating cables again.

    Peter, Do you mean all 4 channels are separated in the DIN Cable?  I thought the seperation was done in the Beomaster...

    I have a few MMC20CL cartridges which work pretty well.... Also most of my 4 Channel records are good...

     

  • 07-13-2008 4:14 AM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    If you are using CD4 records, the separation takes place in the Beogram. These are the 'real' four track records and are coded by having a frequency range of 20 - 45000Hz. The top part of this - 15000 - 45000 has the rear channels on it which have been encoded before pressing. The decoder in the Beogram restores this information to the correct frequencies and then amplifies all four channels to equalised line level.

    The situation is however muddied! There was another format called SQ. This produces a four track output by encoding the rear channel in a totally different way. It uses a matrix system and any stereo record player can be used. The decoding in this system is done in the Beomaster. From my experience, not nearly as good quad reproduction but no special stylus is needed. Have a look here for a guide! 

    There are another couple of systems (makes you realise why quad bombed!) but B&O didn't cater for these! 

    My CLs are not bad for quad reproduction. I have a number of MMC6000s and they are all rubbish! Shame as when new, they were my favourite cartridges of all! 

  • 07-13-2008 7:24 AM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    Thanks everybody for some really useful input. A few more questions, if I may:

    1 How much would a Beogram 6000 and Beomaster 6000 in near mint condition be likely to cost these days? Are these items very difficult to obtain?

    2 I'm presuming that since the Beomaster 6000 has its own remote control, it and the turntable cannot be configured to operate via the Beo 4 or Beo 5? Is its own remote control ultrasound, and does it need to be in line of sight of the equipment?

    3  Is the Beomaster 6000 stackable (i.e. could I place the turntable on top of it)? I'm a little pressed for space in that corner of the sitting room, and presently have my Beogram 5500 sitting on top of the Beomaster 5500.

    4 If I bought some quadraphonic records now and played them using my MMC2, whilst hunting around for a quad turntable and amp, would this damage the rear channels? 

  • 07-13-2008 7:33 AM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    1. Very rare to find a mint one. And therefore expensive. A lot of these stopped working years ago and were beyond economic repair. Those that are around tend to be cherished - Lee now looks after mine!

    2. Ultrasound remote I am afraid - the first B&O one. It does need to be in line of sight . 

    3. No! You can't have seen one! The controls are all on the top as is the display. Also not wide enough to put the Beogram on even if you wanted to! The top is perspex so will scratch easily so you wouldn't want to put anything on top anyway.

    4. The MMC2 would not damage the records any more than they were already damaged.

    You could wall mount the 6000 - though it would take a little ingenuity.  I would get a 3400 if you were really keen on this idea. Lee certainly has one and could be persuaded to part with it. It actually has a better amplifier than the 6000 though is not remote control.

  • 07-13-2008 8:05 AM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    You're right, Peter - I've never seen a Beomaster 6000 in the flesh. From the pictures on Beocentral and this site, it certainly looked as though the controls were along the top, which was why I asked the question. The 3400 sounds interesting - might discuss that with Lee!
  • 07-13-2008 8:14 AM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    If you are in the UK, chat to Lee and he can show you both a 6000 and a 3400. The 6000 is a very special machine - incredible to think it was from the early 70s!
  • 07-13-2008 8:26 AM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    I don't live in the UK (Isle of Man), but I am visiting a friend in Brighton in a fortnight's time. He's also a B&O buff, so a trip to Lee could well be on the cards. Might give him a call to set that up!
  • 07-13-2008 8:28 AM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    Out of interest, if I did get a Beogram 6000 feeding through a Beomaster 6000, or a Beogram 3400 feeding through a Beomaster 3400, how would the sound on stereo records compare to my Beogram 5500 feeding through a Beomaster 5500? Better? Worse? About the same?
  • 07-13-2008 11:39 AM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    Through the 3400, very similar. I would possibly say better as the amplifier in the 5500 is not the very best - however it is a very convenient device - I use one all the time! The 6000 is not quite as good but I would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

     

  • 07-14-2008 4:51 PM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    Thanks everyone for all your help! I've spoken to Lee, who thinks he may have what I need, and we're seeing what we can sort out!
  • 07-14-2008 4:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    This Beomaster 6000 just appeared on Ebay (USA), and has a while to go, but might be worth watching:

    Unfortunately, for some reason on my MacBook, the link option is unavailable, but here is the link for copy/pasting anyway:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Bang-Olufsen-B-O-Beomaster-6000-Tuner-amplifier_W0QQitemZ160260848699QQihZ006QQcategoryZ39783QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem 

  • 07-14-2008 5:01 PM In reply to

    • Jandyt
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    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    Poor me, never win owt!

  • 07-14-2008 5:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    Thanks anampersand and Jandyt, but if I'm right that's the other Beomaster 6000 (there are two different products with the same name, just as there are two completely different Beogram 6000s).
  • 07-14-2008 5:23 PM In reply to

    Re: Quadraphonic sound

    Oops!  You're quite right!  My mistake...  Nonetheless, best of luck to you!

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