So which is the best of all the Beogram turntables all things considered?

 

There is the fabled and horribly expensive (when new) Beogram 4000 with its Swiss components and all those lovely machined metal parts.

 

The Beogram 4002/4004 that followed had “improvements,” but was also a cheapened version of the original. Do these design refinements outweigh the “lesser” Japanese motor ‘vs. the Swiss motor? Plus the Beogram 4004 could be used with a remote control which is pure convenience.

 

The Beogram 8000/8002 has other options like the “turn” feature among others. This model also managed to get rid of the pesky belts that wear out with time.

 

I don’t know enough about the 8002 other than it uses a different cartridge and has a fussier looking platter.

 

There original 4000 and 8000 series were followed by the Beogram 5500-8500 series and later by the 9000 series stackable models which sure reduces the amount of space required for a proper stereo set-up. Having never owned any of these, I don’t know much about them.

 

For me personally, when I go to play a record I choose the Beogram 4000, simply because I love watching that thing of sheer beauty in action.

 

However if I want the absolute best sound from my family of B&O turntables  I choose the Beogram 4004 with its NOS MMC 20CL cartridge… and also because this is my most trouble-free turntable.

 

For the record, my Beogram 4002 is every bit a good as the 4004, but it suffers and unfair disadvantage in having an older MMC 20 CL cartridge… and it has too much horizontal movement in the play arm, an adjustment I haven’t gotten around to performing.  

 

The Beogram 8000, what can I say, it is indestructible and dependable probably deserving more attention that I give it.

 

Anyway, all these turntables are getting on in years effecting performance and reliability. So do any of these tangential arm turntables stand out form the crowd, or are they all good in their own rights?

 

Further would one of the simpler non-tangential arm turntables be a better choice in the long run?

 

Jeff

As far as build quality goes the 4000 wins hands down every time. Extremely over engineered but when you open one it looks like every single component has been hand built by craftsmen.

The 8000 was a somewhat simplified next step, discluding the drive which was typically innivotive of B&O at the time (sadly lacking today) but nevertheless another step forward in the beogram range IMO. The move away from "proper" materials to plastics was a backward step, but a response to the changing times, though which really keeps it from the top 2 of all time best in my list. The 8002 is my personal favourite as it combined superb build quality with my preferred cartridge range - the MMC1-5, if only they had built it half as well as the 4000 it would walk away with the title in most peoples estimation I reckon.

Having said all this I still find myself mostly using my BG7000 for vinyl as it is simply the nearest & easiest one to hand and this too is a superb deck if a little lightweight compared to the earlier ones.

Of the non-tangential ones I think the BG5000 & its forebears (1800, 2000, RX RX2) stand out, again due to the use of the MMC1-5 cartridge all down to the ultra lightweight tonearm used I reckon. Don't ever buy one on ebay though unless you're prepared to collect, it will arrive as broken components rattling in a box - guaranteed.

 

Chris.

Thanks Chris for your great comments.

However, I can't imagine the Beogram 5000 being more fragile that the Beogram 4000 series.

My 4002 (purchased on eBay) arrived badly cosmetically damaged. The Beogram 4004 (more eBay) arrived with only minor issues.

However my Beogram 4000 was an absolute train wreck. Broken internal parts too numerous to mention.

The key to shipping these beautiful turntables is packing. Ideally with the original box, sans the platter, which MUST be packed separately. The arms must also be secured.

Then the whole affair placed in a second box filled with popcorn or other suitable packing material. If they are shipped with double-boxing they will arrive in one piece.

Thanks again for your insightful comments.

Jeff

Thanks again for your insightful comments.

Jeff

You're absolutely right about packaging Jeff. Whovever packed your 4000 obviously had on idea. My coments re:- the 5000 series is borne through experience. The tangential tracking beograms in general travel far better than the radial types due to the counterweights on the tone arms of the latter shaking around in transit and breaking the tonearm at the pivot point. There seems to be no particular reason for this as I've received extremely badly packaged radial beograms which have survived postage against all the odds and a couple which have been perfectly packed (double boxed, transit screws correctly set & tons of bubble wrap) which have not survived the journey. Luck of the draw I guess?

 

Chris,

BTW - I should have added in my first answer to your OP, all of the later (mid 1980's to early 1990's) tangential Beograms from the 3000 to the  7000 all share the same basic chassis and are pretty much the same deck except for the cosmetic appearance and the inclusion/exclusion of an inbuilt RIAA pre-amp.

Chris,

 

Personally I like the looks of the 8002 very much however I need to ask what is it about the MMC1-5 cartridge that appeals to you over say the MMC 4000 or the MMC 20 CL?

 

This evening was a rather special night to enjoy pleasures following a very hard week at work. Sumptuous dinner, a nice bottle of wine and music. It was only natural that I choose the Beogram 4004 with its NOS MMC 20 CL to begin the audio-fest.  Pure delight.

 

However it was not without considerable amazement that when I played the same record, using the same McIntosh 2255/500 watt amplifier that I noticed that the Beogram 4000 did a better job with the evening’s selection. Ridiculous. Impossible. Yet true.

 

Jeff

 

P.S. Chris, the guy that packed my Beogram 4000, let’s just say he wasn’t an enthusiast.

I have almost all the Beograms and the 4000 is my favourite B&O deck. It is beautifully built - the reason it doesn't travel well is that if any of it gets loose, the parts weigh so much that they will destroy anything in its path! Proper packing is essential. Actually I do just what you do - Beogram 4000 for best and 4004 for everyday!

The 8000 is good but nothing like as well made. Cheap plastics now becoming brittle and double sided tape. I have a 8002 (which has just started misbehaving - no doubt capacitors) but don't really use it. I prefer the MMC20 cartridges - the SMMC20EN is my everyday cartridge and probably sounds better than any of my CLs.

Looking forward to my 3000 Thorens coming back from restoration though!! 

they don't make em like they used to

i used to have a manticore mantra a long time ago , built like a tank

 3-4 years ago got a project to replace it , build quality is terrible in comparison 

i love the classic bno turntables , they exhude fine craftmanship and were technologically impressive in their day

bno - why can't you bring out a dvd/cd/blu ray player of that ilk ? 

Peter :

the 4000 is my favourite B&O deck.

I'm shocked Peter. I thought your favourite would have been the Thorens 3000. No contest!

Andy T.

Jandyt:

Peter :

the 4000 is my favourite B&O deck.

I'm shocked Peter. I thought your favourite would have been the Thorens 3000. No contest!

Andy T.

Actually I very carefully said B&O deck. The Beogram 3000 is a Thorens - it even has Thorens written on it!!  

This has been an enlightening discussion and I appreciate all the input.

 

While I love all my four Beograms, having been inside all four, I can’t help but be somewhat in awe of the Beogram 4000 which is built like Bang & Olufsen intended it to last forever, and which it well might.

 

The Beogram 4002/4004 has one improvement that I admire, the secured arm assembly which makes a huge difference in shipping. However, the cost cutting is clearly evident everywhere else…. starting with the omission of the useful strobe.

 

The Beogram 8000 is undoubtedly my least favorite in part, because I prefer the esthetic appearance of the 4000 series and seeing no benefit in hiding the two arms under an aluminum panel.

 

While I appreciate the lack of the belt drive, the LED speed monitor, the “turn” feature for cleaning a record, and even the double-play function, the cheapened construction takes away from my personal appreciation of the end product.

 

A good comparison can well be made with Rolls-Royce, who for 100 years proudly boasted that they made “The best motorcar in the world.” They didn’t. Ferraris were faster, the simple Ford was likely more dependable, Bugatti more stylish, and Mercedes-Benz was vastly better engineered however the way in which Crewe made their motorcars put them in a class by themselves… more like rolling art.

 

So it is with the Beogram 4000. The beautifully built high end Thorens is probably a technically superior turntable, but place one side by side with a Beogram 4000 and the Thorens will suffer from the comparison.

 

Jeff

Hi

I haven't had the opportunity to listen to many B&) decks but from a pure form perspective the 4000 is the winner.  Everyone that sees it is in awe of the styling!  And they sound great (when working properly!)

Cheers 

The “when working properly” says a mouthful. My Beogram 4000 has had a checkered life with much damage in shipment. It took a monumental effort and the patience of Job to get it back in dependable working order. Replaced broken internal parts and COUNTLESS adjustments.

 

However just the other evening I played the same record on my Beogram 4004 with its NOS MMC 20CL cartridge and then the Beogram 4000 with one of my old cast-off MMC 20CL cartridges and the 4000 came out the winner. Incredible! The comparison says amazing things about these B&O cartridges as well as the build design of the 4000 turntable.

 

So to say the least it was all worth the effort.

 

Jeff

So far I have had the BG1202, BG2000(80s) BG8000, BG8002 and BG60006.

The 1202 was my first and it always played well and sounded fine. Got a new original stylus for it too(SP14 I think). Despite not having any other B&O to connect it to its good for its age. Still got it but unused for some years now.

The 2000 replaced the 1202 for whatever reason and got a new original MMC4. Never any trouble, Always sounding good. Sold it 3 years later from the time of purchase.

The 8000 was a projekt which needed a tacho disc. This was before Dillen made a reproduktion. Never got running and scraped. Dillen got some parts of it.

The 8002 replaced the 8000. Dillen fixed it and it runs like new with a Soundsmith SMMC2. Vinyl sounds awesome!

The 6006 needs minor work, but comes with a nearly new original MMC20EN and I do have a NOS MMC20CL too so I'm looking a bit forward to hear it in action.

My Best vote must be either 8002 or 6006 but so far 8002 even though the radial trackers do sound good.

Best sound in my setup was either the BG8002 - MMC2 or the BG6000 - MMC20CL Quad. I think I'll put some more effort into getting the BG4000 - MMC20CL running again, it's been neglected.  Must admit nowdays the BG4500 - MMC2 (sounds lightweight) or the BG6000- MMC20CL Quad (lot more base) gets the most use because of convienance with their internal RIAA's, so they would be hard to let go. My BG1203 - SP12 get a lot of use on the BM3400 and it sounds great.

 

Beoaus.

 I was just given an 8000. It probably has less than 100 hrs as it was my fathers and he did not use much. It has been in storage for about 15 yrs. I have no cable and I want to hook it up to a modern US Denon amp  w/ rca's. It has a power cord and a wire with bare wire at end, I assume this is the ground. Is this worth buying parts for? What is the best cartridge for the money for it?

 

Thanks,

Beginner

Nice inheritence

I wouldn't pay to much attention to the low usage as time itself will have had a detrimental affect on certain components. These are mainly the electrolytical capacitors & the tacho disc. If you're lucky yours will have the later metal tacho disc and not the early cellophane one which will undoubtedly need replacing soon if not now.

The good news is that member Dillen (Martin) can supply you with both a capacitor kit & a brand new metal tacho disc.

As for the cartridge, I would highly recommend a Soundsmith SMMC20EN. The cartridges supplied by these are absolutely fantastic soundwise if a little less refined looking than the origal B&O ones. Not cheap though but a far better bet than trying to buy a used B&O one which will be @ 20 years old in any case with no guarantees.

I imagine the wire you mention will be a ground wire and connection is easiest by buying a DIN/RCA converter lead. Most likely you will only be able to find a 5 pin DIN converter (the original B&O lead will be 7 pin) but pins 1 & 7 simply unscrew and will be fine as these pins only carry the datalink for remote control.

Chris.

Jeff,

I've got a newbie question.  A friend got a Beogram 4004 and couldn't get it to work - namely the turntable arm does not move forward when you press the button.  The light lights up and you hear the motor, but the arm does not move.

 
Knowing nothing about these turntables, I immediately suspected that the arm had been locked for shipping.  He got the manuals and it showed how to turn the 3 screws on the bottom to 'play'.  I did that, but still no arm movement.

Is there another locking mechanism in place?  If so, can you describe how to unlock after shipping?

thanks, jhb
 

There's no lock whatsoever for the arm nor its carriage (another reason why these decks don't travel to well). The three screws only lock the floating part of the chassis to the rest of the frame. Most probably the small belt from the servo motor to the worm gear pulley is worn / broken / missing.

Agree with that. One of the joys of this deck is how easy it is to take apart. The wooden surround slides forward and as it does so, it releases the top panels. Remove all that you can - the control panel is removable a different way but doesn't need to come out. Be careful of the stylus when doing this!

You can then see all the workings. There is a long screw that should be driven by a small belt which is around a small white plastic wheel. See if you can see it.  

Jhb,

 

I am NOT an expert on Beograms, the title of expert goes to Martin and Peter, however, If the light comes on in the sensor arm it is possible that the belt that moves the arms is broken. This is especially likely if you hear the motor running freely.

 

By the way, the Beogram 4004 is a wonderful turntable!

 

Jeff