moxxey:

Flappo, I think you're starting to lose all credibility. Time to move on, I think.

Didn't you just say in another thread, yesterday, that you were considering a BV7-40?

I agree - and please stop calling Bang & Olufsen "bno" - it's hugely annoying!!!!

A14BEO:

moxxey:

Flappo, I think you're starting to lose all credibility. Time to move on, I think.

Didn't you just say in another thread, yesterday, that you were considering a BV7-40?

I agree - and please stop calling Bang & Olufsen "bno" - it's hugely annoying!!!!

i'm sorry , but you openly admit to driving an alfa romeo , arguably the most unreliable car on the planet and a car that really is all show and not much go

i don't think you're in any position to dictate to the likes of me , ta very much

Take a chillpill Matt!
At least he doesn't call it Bang or Bangvision.

Whew! This three pager seems to be running on high octane Flappo!

I think Mr. Flappo is certainly entitled to his opinion, and it seems like any post having to do with modern products seems to decend into bitterness and brick throwing almost immediately.

Instead of drawing pistols, I think it would be more helpful if new Bang & Olufsen fans happened upon a website where dignified individuals engaged in reasoned debate about a rare and wonderful Danish AV company.

I for one will start by replacing my explosion avatar with one depicting flowers or kittens. Get ready BeoWorld. Here comes a kinder gentler Trip English!

Namaste!

Without a doubt the Bvis7 is probably the best value B&O television in the range. the built in beosystem 3 that is built into the back of the the 40" screen is the best available at the moment surely? how many other brands offer a fully moving stand that tilts, so many people must be amazed when they see it.... thats unique surely? 

Brother Jangles, your words have warmed my heart. The BeoVision 7 does truly align  my chakra in a very cosmic way. Much love to my BeoBrothers.

Jimbojangles, welcome to BeoWorld.

You should write copy for B&O ...
 

all bno have to do in the short term is address the silly little things that should really be standard on sets as advanced ( and costly ) as they are

hdmi and freeview

every bno tv should have freeview as standard when sold in the uk

and every bno tv should have at least 2 hdmi's - do you really want to put up with the dvi cludge or have some ridiculous extender thing hanging off the back ?

 

finally - please incorporate freeview tuners into the dvd2 and hdr2 as i don't want loads of crappy freeview boxes cluttering up my otherwise beautiful bang & olufsen set up , do you ?

 

rant over

:) 

i'll happily admit the bv7 /40 bv9 has a superb spec , 4 hdmi's is more than any other maker as far as i know - even sony !! 

the bv8 lets the side down imo , add freeview built in and it would sell like hot cakes 

j0hnbarker:

moxxey:

j0hnbarker:

because they were getting the best performing and looking set on the market. I think the point Flappo is making is that today B&O are not using the best panels and not pushing the most up to date connectivity..

John, with all due respect I think you need to see a BV7-40 MKIII for yourself, with the right source, before stating they are not using the best panels. Just because they've not implemented a 100Hz panel, it doesn't mean that then panels are not high end. We've already established on here that they only receive A+ LCD panels from Samsung.

I don't see how, from LCD technology, you can get better than the BV7-40 MKIII. I'd love to see a better LCD TV. Yes, they are darned expensive, but they certainly are used the best screens.

Connectivity wise, this TV has everything you need. Yes, I'd agree the BV7-32 is way behind, but then I'd assume that this is going to get a revamp this side of summer. Indeed, it's a necessity.

...err, the fact that they haven't 100Hz technology would suggest that they're not using the 'best' panels, and your own admission that the 32in model needs revamping suggests that there may have been more than a grain of truth in what I was saying???

Got to put my cards on the table and say that I'm not in the market for a new B&O TV as a house move recently cleaned me out. Had I spent 5/6/7k-ish on a new B&O TV though, I'd be on here defending it to the hilt. There's a hint of emperor's new clothes about this whole debate, with those that have bought the sets refusing to acknowledge that they might not be the 'best' that this kind of money can buy. Equally though, there have been some very strong criticisms of the set, and I can see why owners would get upset with this. Before any sensitive souls get offended, I've got to say that I'm not suggesting that B&O LCD sets are poor (far from it!), just that this whole debate seems to have polarised opinion to the extent that healthy debate seems to have been the victim...

 

Very wise words indeed!

100HZ technology with LCD technology offers noticable improvements with movements on the screen. So again, B&O is too late with it, no matter what kind of soften excuse you use. How good the picture now can look, it can look better with the 100HZ technology.

TripEnglish:

Brother Jangles, your words have warmed my heart. The BeoVision 7 does truly align  my chakra in a very cosmic way. Much love to my BeoBrothers.

Hey trip, I love your sense of humour!

I want to reply to a recent post about BV7 owners defending their product choice. Personally, when I first bought my BV7-40 I posted the first review thread about the Mark III set and openly criticised it and believe me, I went to town with my criticism. I had the opportunity to return the television to the store or to change it over for a different one so at no point was I ever held to randsom and forced to keep my television. I chose not to return it because as time went on I began to notice that with some footage I watched the picture was outstanding while with other footage it was very poor. The more I watched the more I realised that it was not the television that was weak but the broadcast. Sky are in fact one of the worst offenders which often results in loss of signal quality and picture degredation.

The BV7-40 is capable of showing a true HD picture but there is nobody that offers the broadcast capability to do so hence you can never appreciate its capabilities in full. Bluray is the closest to it but even still there is considerable difference because the DVDs are not big enough to store the data required for the perfect true HD picture performance which is 3000Mbits per second of footage. Consider that Blueray at its best can offer 36Mbits per second and look at how amazing the picture is just with that!

People have talked about 100Hz technology. Consider that 100Hz technology can result in a worse picture which is why B&O probably choose not to implement it into their sets at this time. Half of the pictures that are displayed at 100Hz have to be built from the other pictures using some form of algorithm and no matter how good that algorithm is it will sometimes make mistakes. When it does it can look terribly jarring i.e it will strike you as, "Whoa! That didnt look right!" Consider that professional studios use computers and machinery costing in excess of £100,000 to do their algorithms and they still get it wrong. You can then appreciate just what you get with the BeoSystem 3 which is the best in its class for the consumer.

Sky HD transmits about 10Mbits per second in MPEG2 which is nowehere near a high quality broadcast so the BV7-40 being a top of the range television is going to faithfully reproduce what it is given, hence in this case, it produces an old and outdated picture and displays it perfectly along with all its falws. Note that Bluray offers different compression standards from MPEG2 to AVC (also known as VC1) which is the best. This is approximately 30% better than MPEG 2 which again, is a considerable difference. Remember, this is still only at 36Mbits per second - the best Bluray can offer - which is nowhere near 3000Mbits per second that true HD offers. Blueray is not designed to run any higher than 36Mbits pers second (8 bits per byte) and 1080p which is what the BV7-40 can display is capable of 3000Mbits per second so you can work out how much of the information is lost to fit onto even the highest quality blueray disk!

Lets look at it more broadly. If you look at the chain from the intial camera recording through to your television screen, the weakest link by far with a top of the range set like the BV7-40 is the broadcaster, not not the television. The BV7-40 faithfully reproduces every shortcoming of the low quality broadcast. Sky have got as many as 10 satellites up their now and each one may have 8 transponders for example. Each of these could do either 4 high quality channels, 6 medium quality channels or 8 low quality channels. So, to increase the number of channels, they either have to put up more satelites or lower the quality of the exisiting channels they are broadcssting and its obviously a lot cheaper to lower the quality than the costs involved of putting up more satellites.

The BV7-40 is in fact a superior television that is ahead of its time in many ways. Its performance is limited by a number of external factors to include broadcasting, compression, storage and bandwidth technologies and associated costs.

Simon.

How strange then if the picture is ahead of it's time, A Beovision 7 never but really never has had the label the best picture available in reviews or test.  The technical journalists and experts in Europe are all wrong ofcourse...

 

 

A14BEO:

... and please stop calling Bang & Olufsen "bno" - it's hugely annoying!!!!

Let him be - Flappo's answers are surely send from his iphone.

On a second thought, though, I would understand the 'bno' and the lack of capital letters in his answers better if he had bno's Serene ...

Flappo The Grate:

i'm sorry , but you openly admit to driving an alfa romeo , arguably the most unreliable car on the planet and a car that really is all show and not much go

i don't think you're in any position to dictate to the likes of me , ta very much

Wrong again, hotshot. At no point did I say I owned one - all my motoring arrangements are looked after by a third party!

I was merely stating that the reason that most Alfa customers buy their cars is for the looks... they already know that there's better out there, but they can't resist the stunning Italian styling and upmarket image the brand offers..... rather like Bang & Olufsen (bno), apart from the "Italian" part.

I see Bang & Olufsen as a luxury item, a status symbol which tells others something about you by merely glancing at a product.

I know from experience that for a huge percentage of customers, this is a key factor - way above performance, and the ability to link it to one's bedroom curtains. It says "my owner has style" much better than any Panasonic Viera ever could!

I can see people's point when they say that the screens could be better, and that there are superior products out there (for half the price), but so long as the company is in existance, many, many individuals will continue to happily spend their money on a product that they know will both look stunning, work well, and be reliable for years to come.

This is starting to sound like AutoSpies (www.autospies.com).  People buy for THEIR reasons, not MINE.

Woohoo! Someone who sees sense!

(Added disclaimer - 99% of members on here do see sense - 1% refuse to listen to other people's opinions!)

Go on - tell me! What happened to the Nissan?

On the BV7-40 - I think that this is the bargain in the range. Compare it to the Avant DVD and the price is not that outrageous, you have all the connections anyone could want, the DVD player is built in and of good quality and the sound processor is excellent.

It does not have the best screen available but it has an excellent compromise which works with the present video processor. I think B&O shot themselves in the foot by introducing it before sorting out the SD issue but this will improve. I don't want it to have a freeview tuner in particularly as no doubt this will become out of date as more HD broadcasts are brought in. I'll stick with Sky and an STB-C thank you.

On the HDR2 and DVD2, I think these are both going to be dropped as being below par for a B&O product and expect replacements more in keeping with the brand in the not too distant future.  

A14BEO:

... and please stop calling Bang & Olufsen "bno" - it's hugely annoying!!!!

Cant stop thinking about The Beano now. Funny, new bno products do look a bit comical.

 

I just learned that in my former home country Germany there are only 2 channels left that do HD, everyone goes back to SD. So much for picture quality. When it comes to movies on DVD and Blueray, how many movies are released in a month where you can say "I really enjoyed that". Not a lot, at least for me.

I think this is where their slogan "You are watching the TV for hours, then you turn it on" comes into play. I think they strive for excellent pictures and sound and they are doing a good job keeping up, besides the BV7 32. 

What no other brand offers you is the design & workmanship. There is no reason to defend a decision to buy a Beovison, there is nothing that compares with the design element of the product.

http://www.home-mag.com/typo3temp/pics/8cdf925a59.jpg

Look here. A normal TV for occasional viewing obviously. While it does not conflict with the overall look of that apartment put a BC6 in that position. Or a BV7. That would have taken it from blah to ahhh.

 Worth the money, of course. And note the TV is off.

 

Cheers

Jk 

 

 

 

Article is here for those speaking german. 

http://www.home-mag.com/index.php?id=329 

 

 

 

actually , blu ray movies don't play at 36 mbpsec it's 54 mbpsec

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/

 "

Blu-ray FAQ
General
1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 1.10 1.11 1.12 1.13 1.14 1.15	What is Blu-ray? Why the name Blu-ray? Who developed Blu-ray? What Blu-ray formats are planned? How much data can you fit on a Blu-ray disc? How much video can you fit on a Blu-ray disc? How fast can you read/write data on a Blu-ray disc? What video codecs will Blu-ray support? What audio codecs will Blu-ray support? Will Blu-ray discs require a cartridge? Will Blu-ray require an Internet connection? Will Blu-ray down-convert analog outputs? Will Blu-ray support mandatory managed copy? When will I be able to buy Blu-ray products? What will Blu-ray products cost?
Blu-ray vs DVD
2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6	Will Blu-ray replace DVDs? Will Blu-ray be backwards compatible with DVD? Why should I upgrade from DVD to Blu-ray? What is the difference between Blu-ray and DVD? Will Blu-ray replace VCRs? What about Blu-ray for PCs?
Blu-ray vs HD-DVD
3.1 3.2 3.3	Is Blu-ray the same thing as HD-DVD? What benefits does Blu-ray offer compared to HD-DVD? What is the difference between Blu-ray and HD-DVD?
Blu-ray movies
4.1 4.2 4.3	Is Lord of the Rings coming to Blu-ray? Is Star Wars coming to Blu-ray? Is <insert movie> coming to Blu-ray?
General
1.1	What is Blu-ray?
	Blu-ray, also known as Blu-ray Disc (BD) is the name of a next-generation optical disc format. The format was developed to enable recording, rewriting and playback of high-definition video (HD), as well as storing large amounts of data. The format offers more than five times the storage capacity of traditional DVDs and can hold up to 25GB on a single-layer disc and 50GB on a dual-layer disc. For more general information about Blu-ray, please see our What is Blu-ray? section.
1.2	Why the name Blu-ray?
	The name Blu-ray is derived from the underlying technology, which utilizes a blue-violet laser to read and write data. The name is a combination of "Blue" (blue-violet laser) and "Ray" (optical ray). According to the Blu-ray Disc Association the spelling of "Blu-ray" is not a mistake, the character "e" was intentionally left out so the term could be registered as a trademark.  The correct full name is Blu-ray Disc, not Blu-ray Disk (incorrect spelling) The correct shortened name is Blu-ray, not Blu-Ray (incorrect capitalization) or Blue-ray (incorrect spelling) The correct abbreviation is BD, not BR or BRD (wrong abbreviation)
1.3	Who developed Blu-ray?
	The Blu-ray Disc format was developed by the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), a group of leading consumer electronics, personal computer and media manufacturers, with more than 180 member companies from all over the world. The Board of Directors currently consists of:  Apple Computer, Inc. Dell Inc. Hewlett Packard Company Hitachi, Ltd. LG Electronics Inc. Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. Mitsubishi Electric Corporation Pioneer Corporation Royal Philips Electronics Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. Sharp Corporation Sony Corporation Sun Microsystems, Inc. TDK Corporation Thomson Multimedia Twentieth Century Fox Walt Disney Pictures Warner Bros. Entertainment
1.4	What Blu-ray formats are planned?
	As with conventional CDs and DVDs, Blu-ray plans to provide a wide range of formats including ROM/R/RW. The following formats are part of the Blu-ray Disc specification:  BD-ROM - read-only format for distribution of HD movies, games, software, etc. BD-R - recordable format for HD video recording and PC data storage. BD-RE - rewritable format for HD video recording and PC data storage. There's also plans for a BD/DVD hybrid format, which combines Blu-ray and DVD on the same disc so that it can be played in both Blu-ray players and DVD players.
1.5	How much data can you fit on a Blu-ray disc?
	A single-layer disc can hold 25GB. A dual-layer disc can hold 50GB. To ensure that the Blu-ray Disc format is easily extendable (future-proof) it also includes support for multi-layer discs, which should allow the storage capacity to be increased to 100GB-200GB (25GB per layer) in the future simply by adding more layers to the discs.
1.6	How much video can you fit on a Blu-ray disc?
	Over 9 hours of high-definition (HD) video on a 50GB disc. About 23 hours of standard-definition (SD) video on a 50GB disc.
1.7	How fast can you read/write data on a Blu-ray disc?
	According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future."   it's hd-dvd that had a data rate of 36 mbsec , another reason it was a flop i guess

 

The Beonic Man:

TripEnglish:

Brother Jangles, your words have warmed my heart. The BeoVision 7 does truly align  my chakra in a very cosmic way. Much love to my BeoBrothers.

Hey trip, I love your sense of humour!

I want to reply to a recent post about BV7 owners defending their product choice. Personally, when I first bought my BV7-40 I posted the first review thread about the Mark III set and openly criticised it and believe me, I went to town with my criticism. I had the opportunity to return the television to the store or to change it over for a different one so at no point was I ever held to randsom and forced to keep my television. I chose not to return it because as time went on I began to notice that with some footage I watched the picture was outstanding while with other footage it was very poor. The more I watched the more I realised that it was not the television that was weak but the broadcast. Sky are in fact one of the worst offenders which often results in loss of signal quality and picture degredation.

The BV7-40 is capable of showing a true HD picture but there is nobody that offers the broadcast capability to do so hence you can never appreciate its capabilities in full. Bluray is the closest to it but even still there is considerable difference because the DVDs are not big enough to store the data required for the perfect true HD picture performance which is 3000Mbits per second of footage. Consider that Blueray at its best can offer 36Mbits per second and look at how amazing the picture is just with that!

People have talked about 100Hz technology. Consider that 100Hz technology can result in a worse picture which is why B&O probably choose not to implement it into their sets at this time. Half of the pictures that are displayed at 100Hz have to be built from the other pictures using some form of algorithm and no matter how good that algorithm is it will sometimes make mistakes. When it does it can look terribly jarring i.e it will strike you as, "Whoa! That didnt look right!" Consider that professional studios use computers and machinery costing in excess of £100,000 to do their algorithms and they still get it wrong. You can then appreciate just what you get with the BeoSystem 3 which is the best in its class for the consumer.

Sky HD transmits about 10Mbits per second in MPEG2 which is nowehere near a high quality broadcast so the BV7-40 being a top of the range television is going to faithfully reproduce what it is given, hence in this case, it produces an old and outdated picture and displays it perfectly along with all its falws. Note that Bluray offers different compression standards from MPEG2 to AVC (also known as VC1) which is the best. This is approximately 30% better than MPEG 2 which again, is a considerable difference. Remember, this is still only at 36Mbits per second - the best Bluray can offer - which is nowhere near 3000Mbits per second that true HD offers. Blueray is not designed to run any higher than 36Mbits pers second (8 bits per byte) and 1080p which is what the BV7-40 can display is capable of 3000Mbits per second so you can work out how much of the information is lost to fit onto even the highest quality blueray disk!

Lets look at it more broadly. If you look at the chain from the intial camera recording through to your television screen, the weakest link by far with a top of the range set like the BV7-40 is the broadcaster, not not the television. The BV7-40 faithfully reproduces every shortcoming of the low quality broadcast. Sky have got as many as 10 satellites up their now and each one may have 8 transponders for example. Each of these could do either 4 high quality channels, 6 medium quality channels or 8 low quality channels. So, to increase the number of channels, they either have to put up more satelites or lower the quality of the exisiting channels they are broadcssting and its obviously a lot cheaper to lower the quality than the costs involved of putting up more satellites.

The BV7-40 is in fact a superior television that is ahead of its time in many ways. Its performance is limited by a number of external factors to include broadcasting, compression, storage and bandwidth technologies and associated costs.

Simon.

 

actually , you're wrong there , me old mucker

blu ray movie playback has a data rate of 54 mbpsec , it's hd-dvd that was stuck at 36

 

"

1.7

How fast can you read/write data on a Blu-ray disc?

According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.

 

  

-

Richard Ridyard:

The DVD tray is amazing and it took over a year to perfect I mean it can take up to 25kg in weight. 

Admittedly not a very useful attribute!  I always remember one of my favourite B&O salesmen demonstrating the Beogram 4004 and showing me how well it was made by standing on it! Again, not very useful, but it shows the quality!

I agree with you in the main. However I am less impressed with the design. There are just too few ways to make a black screen look different. The BV5/9 succeeds better in my opinion. 

Richard Ridyard:

The TV’s depth is that only of a DVD. 

This is another thing that bugs me slightly. The depth of a BV7 on the floor stand is actually only 7cms less than an Avant DVD. So it is not that flat! (54cms vs. 61cms)