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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 02-13-2008 3:49 AM by benjnz. 72 replies.
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  • 02-09-2008 4:20 AM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&amp;Olufsen ?

    This is quite a "The Sky is Falling!" thread.

    I think the journalist could well have mentioned that B&O is making money - instead of a projected profit of DKK500'', they are on track to achieve DKK300''. Because today's investment environment is high-strung that was enough to have the share value of B&O plummet. But the company has a worldwide footprint, a strong brand and lots of opportunities. 

    Some good observations in this thread, though. I absolutely agree that B&O seems to have missed the plot on providing a full a/v system for entry level, younger customers. They should recruit new adherents, and rebadged Samsung isn't going to fool anyone. 

    And the company's strength clearly lies in audio - where they have co-developed a unique technology for truer reproduction of music (ALT), and where they have a strong heritage. Somehow, previous management was too preoccupied with the TVs and other activities to want to push that strongly. Who knows, maybe they don't believe in their own products? Big Smile 

    And I'll agree with the journalist - the stores do look like a bathroom fixtures shop. Sterile and cold.

    And I don't agree that it's going to be hard to design interesting LCD televisions. I would personally never put an LCD screen fixed against a wall, since viewing angle is so critical with LCD. And I can't really see where the benefit in an ultra-thin screen would otherwise come into play. That point is overdone by the journalist - an ultrathin screen on a floor-standing set would last a couple of hours before the kids are done with it, and the BV8 demonstrates that you can do interesting designs with flat.

    Interesting times ahead for B&O - the brand will never disappear, as such, though we'd all like it to remain independent and quixotic! 

  • 02-09-2008 10:49 AM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    There's usually some advertizing in the Lufthansa Frequent Flyer Magazines and the Catalogue and Magazines (the one which you can read from both sides - if you understand that) as well as product info on the Serenata in all the LH Lounges in Germany.  There is also good product placement in the lounges usually a couple of Beovision 1s and Beovision 5s. I think the problem is the stuck-up sales staff who probably put the fear of death into any prospective customer with their attitude. 
  • 02-09-2008 2:41 PM In reply to

    • Pushkin
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    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    There was a time when going to a showroom was something I really looked forward to and the sense of excitement a new catalogue brought - but no longer.

    I realised the other day that I have spent over £100,000 on b&o over the last 15 years - this is also the case for 2 friends of mine who like me have had a life long love affair with b&o introduced by our parents.  We all have recently got the the point where this is over and although we still love the brand, its soul and the classic products we now feel alienated by the direction of the products and apparent focus on billionaires only.  To me vision is becoming more important and I refuse to be party to the prices the TVs.  I accept that my friends and I may be in the minority but it is very painful non the less.   

  • 02-09-2008 3:45 PM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    I've always done my best not to add it up! However I tend to agree with you. I do still love the older equipment though - Frede in Denmark is restoring a Beolab 5000 system for me. I may well use this as my main system and apart from the TVs I have and the piped system which I use for background music, I may get rid of the rest. Have to confess to buying some 4000s from Lee today though! Habit not completely gone! Laughing
  • 02-10-2008 12:51 PM In reply to

    • Stan
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    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    I used to be fairly regular around here, but my interest in the forum (as well as the brand) has waned over the months because:

    1)  I have what I like, and I'm not sure what products would cause me to change this perspective - maybe a BS3 with an AUX input (not a company saving product, I'm sure... but not a bad "entry level", perhaps)...  A new CD player?  How do you improve on the BS9000 enough to get me to replace it?  I guess I'd buy a turntable, but, again, this is probably a minority opinion.

    2)   B&O TVs are too expensive for my taste and purposes, and more and more, the forum seems to be TV / surround sound questions.  No problem here.  I realize there's a lot of options so, obviously, there will be a lot of questions.  Just not my interest.  Feel the same way about the stores (focus is more on video).

    3)   While I sometimes dream about upgrading to BL9 or BL5s, I think the BL9s cost as much as my BS9000 + BL8000... just can't justify this purchase at this time in my life.  BL8000+BL2 (bought separately) are very much "good enough".

    4)  I've got BL4000s, BL Active and BLPC2 sitting in their respective boxes because I haven't found the right install placement (in a new house since they were purchased), and I only want to drill holes once.

    5)  For better or worse, the future of music (and video, I suppose) seems to be digital media.  This market moves way too fast for B&O's long product cycles.  I *like* B&Os long product cycles, and this is something that attracts me to the brand.  Whoever finds a solution to this problem should win a big prize :).

    I wish I had a suggestion or solution for B&O to pull more money from my pocket (actually, given the predicted economic gloom, maybe I'm glad I have one less habit to feed), but I don't.  I guess I agree with whomever said B&O should focus on speakers, but I don't know if they can sell enough to sustain the company.

    I hope somebody can keep them alive until I get my kids through college... 

    Stan 

  • 02-10-2008 1:05 PM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    Stan:

    I used to be fairly regular around here, but my interest in the forum (as well as the brand) has waned over the months because:

    1)  I have what I like, and I'm not sure what products would cause me to change this perspective - maybe a BS3 with an AUX input (not a company saving product, I'm sure... but not a bad "entry level", perhaps)...  A new CD player?  How do you improve on the BS9000 enough to get me to replace it?  I guess I'd buy a turntable, but, again, this is probably a minority opinion.

    2)   B&O TVs are too expensive for my taste and purposes, and more and more, the forum seems to be TV / surround sound questions.  No problem here.  I realize there's a lot of options so, obviously, there will be a lot of questions.  Just not my interest.  Feel the same way about the stores (focus is more on video).

    3)   While I sometimes dream about upgrading to BL9 or BL5s, I think the BL9s cost as much as my BS9000 + BL8000... just can't justify this purchase at this time in my life.  BL8000+BL2 (bought separately) are very much "good enough".

    4)  I've got BL4000s, BL Active and BLPC2 sitting in their respective boxes because I haven't found the right install placement (in a new house since they were purchased), and I only want to drill holes once.

    5)  For better or worse, the future of music (and video, I suppose) seems to be digital media.  This market moves way too fast for B&O's long product cycles.  I *like* B&Os long product cycles, and this is something that attracts me to the brand.  Whoever finds a solution to this problem should win a big prize :).

    I wish I had a suggestion or solution for B&O to pull more money from my pocket (actually, given the predicted economic gloom, maybe I'm glad I have one less habit to feed), but I don't.  I guess I agree with whomever said B&O should focus on speakers, but I don't know if they can sell enough to sustain the company.

    I hope somebody can keep them alive until I get my kids through college... 

    Stan 

    Actually I agree with almost everything you say!  

    Though I have just bought some 4000s and I hope I will have the up the day they arrive!!

    The problem with the TVs seems to be that big screens are now very cheap except for B&O. And the B&O ones just don't look that different.

    I also agree about the digital media - I do hope the BS5 is good though. But it will have to be to beat my Mac and iPod. 

  • 02-10-2008 6:19 PM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    I am not saying they have to jump on the bandwagon with all of the constantly changing technology - but at least recognize reality.  Yes, the world is going to digital media - so why does my BS3200 only have 1 Aux input (I have a $20 Radio Shack switch so I can toggle between my iPod, TV, and Airport/iTunes).  Why is there not more functionality to the hard disk storage.  Just got a new keychain - the LC2 is not available in the U.S. and the video button cant be reprogrammed = but hey, it at least turns the radio on. 

     

    It is the little things that make the huge difference - why do you think Apple has sold a trillion iPods?  And they arn't cheap either.....

     

     

    -michael 

  • 02-10-2008 7:49 PM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    Look what they've done. They released the BeoVision 8 in the U.S. without an internal tv-tuner and with SCART connections.

     

     

  • 02-10-2008 8:28 PM In reply to

    • Stan
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    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    After mulling this today, I think BeoLiving should be the vehicle for extracting more money from customers like me.  I've got what I need in one room, but not necessarily the entire house.  The missing piece that is that there is no entry level, linkable TV.  I think there was an MX-something in Europe, but not here in the States.  I also think others have said this in the past... 

    I'd like to set up my bedroom up as a link room.  However, I'm not going to put a > $5K TV in my bedroom so, today, this means non-B&O.  Now, I cannot easily connect B&O speakers to a BL Active + Non-B&O TV.  If B&O made a reasonable TV in the low ~$2K range (note, this is double what I just spent on my current bedroom TV), I would buy it so I could do this.   I bet others would, too... might also be a nice entry point for the youngsters.

    Wait, is this the Beovision 8?!?!  How much is this going for (sorry, I haven't been paying attention to B&O for the last 6 mos or so)?  Although I'm a bit worried about the forced angle of the TV... My current TV is on a rather tall piece of furniture, and definitely doesn't need to be angled up.
     

     

    Stan

  • 02-10-2008 8:29 PM In reply to

    • Dude1
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    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    Hi Guys

    I have read all of your comments with much interest. Bang is a product that really polarises people. It is a product that brings our emotions to the fore and divides us with a love / hate relationship. We all love it, but hate paying for it...Stick out tongue

    The stark reality is this, Bang is a company that is currently refocusing. It has made some hard decisions of late that are determining where it is going from here. There will be more hard decisions to come, possibly designer changes and management changes, maybe dealer changes etc. This is the nature of business. It is reality, things change and business and technologies dont stand still - thank goodness for that. Over the past few years we have seen many a huge business like Ford and GM start to really struggle and companys like Apple, Fiat, Audi etc really change for the better and start to take market shares off competitors and good for them. They were smart and the others were'nt so - (Look at Benz - which is only starting to claw back market share..)  So Bang needs to take a fresh look - its dont this in the past and will do it again.  Personally im looking forward to some really exciting changes. These may well be overdue.

    There are some interesting points about the products, some people complain that they are still the same as they were last time they visited a Bang showroom, well what a welcome change!  I dont know about you, but last time someone in a sony shop tried to sell me one of their awful LCD's i could keep up with the series number...X series, V series, this that and the other - made no sense to me. They all looked the same, but some were HD some Full HD then even some were Extreme HD. I am still to this day confused. Next will be Ultimate HD - i dont know!!!  I think of all the people i sold BV7's to, and everyone is happy that they bought a TV that is still current and looks fresh. No questions about that.  People were also happy that the TV's did what they said they would, looked good, were able to be connected to existing systems (like Beocenter 9000) and then be able to put on the wall or floor or bench stand.  They can also have it in a nice colour if they want and know that parts are still avaliable for many years down the track. 

    Some of the most recent launches, serene / serenata / BS6 have been called into question and no doubt Bang is being punshed for products that havent been well received. But that is the chanllenge of business - making people part with hard earned money for products. If they are not providing what people want then they need to look at what is being offered, as simple as that.  I am sure they will make the designers start to work a little harder...the same goes for TV's. I am yet to see another TV that beats what Bang offers for design and i think the best is yet to come, knowing Bang it will bring out something that will clear the way and leave other companys reeling!

    As i have posted before, Bang has tried to gain greater momentum with a strategy of more exposure - hence the phones, less expensive TV's (BV8) Audi car systems, Hotels with Bang, product placement and launches etc etc.  These things take time, but i think that overall Bang has tried to offer more than ever before and satisfy most consumers.  It is still a very small company and has done quite well here considering. It is one of the few  profitable electronics companys left, this in itself against the might of Samsungs and Sonys etc is a great feat! But i think there will be a refocus from here on in.

    Also, within perspective - the products arent the most expensive or best avaliable in the world, but they do come close. I am sure we can all round off speaker manufacturers who are better and sound systems that are better.  Bang has a market because people want quality, service, products that sit nice within a home environment and that last.  I agree that some items are becoming too expensive compared to others, say a 50 inch Sony LCD - which i struggle to watch....but costs about the same as a BV8-26. I also, coming from a marketing and manufacturing background struggle to see how they can legally make an item for this price, even in Asia.

    I think the best is yet to come from Bang. Its a little company with a big bite.  I look forward to the next few years.

    Save your pennies....Smile

     

     

     

     

  • 02-11-2008 12:46 AM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    Stan......not trying to hijack the thread.....but..FYI...yes you can connect your non BnO TV to the active very easily with a PC Input adapter......and it'll switch back an forth between the master system (via ML) and the RCA input from your non-BnO TV......
  • 02-11-2008 1:26 AM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    Less expensive TV?

    Just the way you look at it. I don't think the price for a quit incomplete middle-class picture quality and small sized Beovision is less expesive.In my opinion, it is very expensive for what it offers. So the problem of Bang&Olufsen is still there in my opinion.

     

  • 02-11-2008 1:54 AM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    One does hope that B&O will manage to pull through, but I don't share Dude the Bangers optimism as far as the product line-up and brand are concerned.

    Longevity of products. Agreed, that doesn't have to be a problem, IF the brand invests itself in developing an awareness about itself, its philosophy and why it makes the choices it makes. But during the past several years, B&O has spent very little time doing that - instead using its marketing in all media to roll out new products and campaigns. Thus maybe creating the impression that the company is innovative, and failing to satisfy that impression when customers come into the stores and fine same-o-same-o or me-too/me-too products.

    B&O spread itself too thin - it's a specialist A/V brand, and what it does best is audio and integration, with video being outstanding, but way too expensive due to how the markets developed in flat. Relying on unsophisticated luxury consumers in new markets, at the expense of enthusiasts in established markets is not going to save the bacon, as it mucks up the brand.

    Maybe some find SONY's product line-up confusing, yet while Bravia is just rebadged Samsung it's still doing so well that SONY is having to airlift sets to meet demand -- how did that happen? By SONY single-mindedly focusing on the Bravia image story, instead of - like B&O - skipping from product to product every month or so.

    B&O has failed to generate EXCITEMENT about its products, and part of the reason is this "we got to support every one of our products in our marketing, from the itsy-bitsy ones to the BV9, with the same marketing weight." It's almost as if Porsche spent the same resources marketing sunglasses as they did the 911.
    And it's also due to marketing that is bland and unengaging -- which is a paradox. The reason we buy a/v products is to become exited and engaged by the content we watch and listen to. Reviews of master restaurants don't consist of recipes and photos of tables and chairs, to put it bluntly, they consist of impressions, and B&O is lousy at conveying the impressions generated by their products. (Consider the number of people here on BeoWorld who can't remember having seen a B&O ad anywhere - bland marketing. We're primed to see them, because we're interested, and still we don't.)

    Which brings me to what I do agree with in the Banger's polyanna account: some changes are required. I hope they happen in time for B&O to remain independent and quixotic.
     

  • 02-11-2008 8:03 AM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    j0hnbarker:
    Re: Your thoughts on a letter to B&O....

     

    B&O may read this website, but a cogent set of points addressing the concerns of one (or a group of) loyal B&O customer(s), would be a good way of drawing their attention to the concerns of their customer base. I'm sorry, but even if B&O read this site regularly, any complaints brought up on these pages could simply be dismissed by them as 'noise in the system', rather than genuine grievances - particularly when most of the promising threads dealing with this issue seem to end up petering out into an exchange of inane platitudes between forum members. Why can't we have a little bite for a change? There's nothing wrong with challenging posts and comments that cut slightly against the grain. Some more input from posters like 10% and 355F would be so welcome sometimes, as I've always looked forward to their refreshing take on some of the issues we've discussed relating to B&O recently. This is the friendliest forum I have come across, but please let's not allow the discussion to stagnate for fear of causing the slightest bit of offence!

     

     

    Well J0hn, thanks for the vote of confidence…….I shall endeavour to write something that is not too boring or repetitive but feel it will be – even though I have decided to take two posts into one.

     

    Here goes……

     

    I see a growing amount of frustration on this forum. Some is borne out of disenchantment of B&O, the products it makes, lack of functionality, high prices etc.. Some is borne out of a few individuals not having perhaps the tolerance to other forum members that they should have and that all should at least agree to disagree. Some people have left the forum. Sad.

     

    I believe I have set-out my opinions on a number of topics before. Some are based roughly on the context of this thread, the “Letter to B&O” thread and others like the TBS threads. Now,  the basis of my comments is not because I have a blind belief in B&O and their products but because I believe I can see (as a senior production manager in a $4bn plant) that they have a number of conflicting issues which require a little more respect than I think they are given:-

     

    1. The bottom line (top). They (B&O) are a profitable consumer electronics company operating in the rarefied atmosphere of high-end A/V equipment. That says heaps about the business. They have carved out a niche. And yes, that may be good for Russian billionaires and oil Sheiks and bad for Joe Average from Milton Keynes but sorry, like tax a few pay proportionally more than the masses. B&O now rely on the rich.

     

    The share-price is in my mind is essentially two-fifths of F/A driven by a bunch of greedy brokers who want to kick a pension fund portfolio from one end of the playing field to another. They rely on certainty and change. A plan to develop growth is good (TBS five years ago) but once they see it peaking, its time to get out and make even more money. Financial markets need to put their easily won cash to good use. Fortunately for me that is in gold rather than electronics for now. However, once gold is saturated at $1,500/oz, another excuse (overvalued by the people who overvalued the metal) will come and Dot.com or whatever will become the new flavour again.

     

    1. I doubt that B&O could afford to re-class their business to the true lower-end market. It is just too high volume, too low margin, too competitive a business for them. Joe Average is going to suffer and go to Sony or Pioneer. B&O’s business model is to produce so many TV’s, audio, loudspeakers per day, week, month, year. They strategise on selling 100 BV7-40s in a period of time and make $X per unit. They have no illusions I am sure that they could sell 200 BV7’s for $X/1.5 of $X/2. They just won’t have the market share, the market capture or the plain production capacity. The capital outlay would be prohibitive and there would be insufficient NPV to get the money out of the vault.

     

    1. Technology. Members of this forum are more than likely to be tech-savvy. Most of us are Joe Average and compare tech-specs with price from a range of other brands. Most of us feel B&O isn’t keeping up and is charging too much for their products. However, in line with item 1 above, we here on BeoWorld, we are not the vast majority but a rather a small polarised group. How meaningful is this to B&O’s marketing thrust?

     

    As a statistical guess, how many of the 5000-odd members on BeoWorld are a) owners of pre-owned systems b) have all-new gear and don’t need anymore for the foreseeable future and c) are newbie’s looking to research and buy-in? I would guess something like 50%, 45% 5% respectively for arguments sake. Thus we have a lot to say but the actual amount purchased per year directly from B&O (rather than privately) is miniscule. Yes we are repeat buyers but we are minuscule buyers. Therefore, what if, just what if, the high percentage of B&O’s customers just want a simple 1 remote integrated solution in their living rooms doing nothing other than for show apart from the odd-hour a month they actually are in, not entertaining or playing bridge or baccarat with Mr and Mrs Tripled-Barrelled Forbes-Higgson-Smythe?

     

    1. Corporate and marketing conflicts. Who is right? What is the correct data? From some of the press comments, it would appear that the B&O family want to focus on traditional markets. i.e. cutting edge audio, TV, and loudspeakers. BeoVocal surveys were slanted in the opposite direction (and possibly polarised/bias) towards developing electronic media because those that answered the survey are biased towards electronic media over “traditional media”. Further, the A/V business is now dominated by business driven systems (HDDVD, Blu-ray, iTunes, Windows etc) rather than government driven systems (PAL, NTSC, Secam). How can a small niche manufacturer keep-up with the fashions of these systems? Who do B&O get into bed with? Samsung / Microsoft, Pioneer and Apple? Which bet is the right one? They can’t do all because the big boys want rights and exclusivity.

     

    I guess to summarise – and I have repeatedly maintained this line, is B&O are in a very difficult position – and one they did not intentionally put themselves there by, is that they have to strike a balance with the big-boys and costs, rapidly changing technology (questionably fashion dressed as technology) and what their real customer need. The crux, is that this is well be what the majority of BeoWorlder’s don’t want as it seems our perspective is for cheaper prices, latest technology TV’s and iTunes based media systems.

     

    Who is right or wrong I don’t know. However, we here on BeoWorld have to consider that we may be just be the minority in the wrong. Perhaps B&O is not the product for us after all.

     

    Finally, I will maintain my stance that B&O know what they are doing as far as they can, they know their business and that because some guys in red braces don’t get a new Ferrari this year it is not all doom and gloom. They may have to make a few modifications here or there, they may have to look at their costs but I am sure they will find a way to survive and be profitable to boot.

     

     

    10%

  • 02-11-2008 8:50 AM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    What a fantastic post by 10%.

    I agree entirely, so that's 2 right thinking people. Maybe we are another minority within BeoWorld or just the only sensible ones!?!?

    Regards Graham

  • 02-11-2008 9:24 AM In reply to

    • moxxey
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    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    joeyboygolf:
    I agree entirely, so that's 2 right thinking people. Maybe we are another minority within BeoWorld or just the only sensible ones!?!?

    Sadly you've never going to get any sensible debate in a forum, that meets all requirements. A forum enables users who are relatively 'shy' in real life to be vocal behind their computer. It also enables people to get the wrong impression from a post, with them getting wound up relatively easily. ie people can get offended very easily in a forum.

    I manage a large UK online news portal and the forums are even more vocal and not sensible at all, considering the online news portal is so well respected!

  • 02-11-2008 9:47 AM In reply to

    • Beobird
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    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?


     

     .............................

     

    Who is right or wrong I don’t know. However, we here on BeoWorld have to consider that we may be just be the minority in the wrong. Perhaps B&O is not the product for us after all.

     

    Finally, I will maintain my stance that B&O know what they are doing as far as they can, they know their business and that because some guys in red braces don’t get a new Ferrari this year it is not all doom and gloom. They may have to make a few modifications here or there, they may have to look at their costs but I am sure they will find a way to survive and be profitable to boot.

     

     

    10%

    Nice post Yes -  thumbs up

     Maybe you're right about the point that B&O isn't the best choice for us all, but for 99% of us it was price/technically/design between the mid 80's till 2000 (that's the time we became loving B&O)... I personally don't want top of the line specs for my money, but if I pay the top prices of today for a tv I do want a really good image and a suburb design. B&O's tv section is like a Ferrari with a Fiat engine today, that's just not done. If they put a BMW M5 engine in it I would be happy. Offcourse the Ferrari engine is still better, but like I said: "I don't need the absolute best".
     

    We Can't Get Enough B&O Stuff...

  • 02-11-2008 9:59 AM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    With B&O I am looking for ‘perfection’, which I define as… not necessarily having the latest technology but having great design and build quality, and most importantly that it will look great and be relevant for years to come.

    So to illustrate using my last 3 most recent purchases: the Beosound 3, Serene and Serenata. The Beosound 3 is 'perfect' from my point of view, the choice not to have DAB is fine, I love taking it out, the sound is good, it stands out from the crowd, gives you a good feeling when using it and it will look and sound great for years to come.

    The Serene on the other hand looked about 5 years old within a few months, it was good fun but the glass became scratched with an imprint of the buttons so I couldn't see the screen in strong sun light and the chrome hinge could not cope with everyday use. The Seranata on the other hand is better built except for two problems, I spend hours untangling the headphones as the wire is too thin and the hands free through the speaker is hopeless. So all in all, for me 1 out of 3 is pretty bad when it comes to being 'perfect'.

    Finally, I agree about the challenge of LCD over CRT, I have a Beovision 3 and it still looks and sounds fantastic and is ‘perfect’, I paid around £3k when new 6 years ago, so even though the LCD / Plasma ranges do stand out today, I’m not sure even taking into account inflation that the prices can be justified and will they still stand out in 6 years time?

    Dan

  • 02-11-2008 12:14 PM In reply to

    • Russ
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    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    Hello All! 

    Several good posts here, but Stan raises 2 points which I wish to address:

    Stan:

    2)   B&O TVs are too expensive for my taste and purposes, and more and more, the forum seems to be TV / surround sound questions.  No problem here.  I realize there's a lot of options so, obviously, there will be a lot of questions.  Just not my interest.  Feel the same way about the stores (focus is more on video)....

    5)  For better or worse, the future of music (and video, I suppose) seems to be digital media.  This market moves way too fast for B&O's long product cycles.  I *like* B&Os long product cycles, and this is something that attracts me to the brand.  Whoever finds a solution to this problem should win a big prize :).... 

    First the TV's...anyone remember what an MX sold for?  Only available here in the US for about 4 years in the early 90's.  Correct me if I'm wrong but retail was approxiamtely $2500USD.  In 1992...for a 26" TV...what were they thinking?  Well, I'll tell you...I paid good money to get one recently and it simply blows my room-mate's 2003 34" Toshiba CRTright out of the room.  It is obvious, drives him nuts.  But that is only part of the issue.  Starting almost 10 years ago here in the US, the business began a change which is almost complete.  Customers began to buy 'Surround Sound' systems, as opposed to 'Stereo' systems.  The perception that this forum has become a TV/Surround Sound forum simply reflects that market shift.  Bang & Olufsen would be foolhardy to totally ignore such a huge shift.  Criticize their decisions if you must (and I will happily pile on with respect to a couple ofthose); but the company, its image, its brochures, and particularly its stores simply MUST address the increased focus on multi-channel, multi-media.  Hmmm, multi-media....

     

    I think I agree that B&O's real strength is in managing human factors, and perception.  By which I mean our actual perception of sound and light.  The theme running through this thread concerning B&O's return to focus on speakers, I think can be extended, to televisions as well.  Once again I am disheartened by the to-and-fro whereby we laud B&O for it's audio competence and yet bemoan the expense of the BeoLab 5 and 9.  The same can be said, I think for it's televisions.  I have had occaision to directly compare BeoVision 4's to panels from Panasonic and Fujitsu, in the same room, in the same light, with the same source, for extended periods...and you really can tell the  difference.  The new BV-7/40 MKIII-US?  Spectacular! The Sony Style store is a 5 minute walk from the B&O showroom.  I can see that too.

     One of the areas in which B&O have completely distinguished themselve is in system integration and management, even as far back as the unloved AV-7000. (There, a criticism!)  The battle to clear the coffee table of the clutter of remote controls is a huge factor in B&O's favor.  As we look forward to the future of B&O I believe that the much talked-about BeoSound 5 will be a clear indicator.  If it is nothing more than a new face on the unloved BeoMedia 1 (that's 2!), then I will be satisfied...as long as it is clearly superior in terms of usability.  If B&O morphs into a specialist in Command & Control of widely variegated systems, they will have a bright future.

     

    Russ

     

    We kid because we love.

     

    Bang & Olufsen Tysons Galleria

    McLean, VA USA

  • 02-11-2008 12:21 PM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    Actually I agree with almost everything you say!  

    Though I have just bought some 4000s and I hope I will have the up the day they arrive!!

    The problem with the TVs seems to be that big screens are now very cheap except for B&O. And the B&O ones just don't look that different.

    I also agree about the digital media - I do hope the BS5 is good though. But it will have to be to beat my Mac and iPod. 

    Actually B&O TVs are not so much more expensive than e.g. Loewe. The problem is that they practically have no features, such as PIP, internal HDR plus they don't have the best picture quality. So it's too much for too little. That's what I told my dealer last Friday and two hours later I had purchased a Loewe TV for 10'000 Euros at another shop. And this TV comes loaded (100Hz, 24p, Internal HDR, PIP and and and...) 

  • 02-11-2008 2:13 PM In reply to

    • AT
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    Re: The End Of Bang&amp;Olufsen ?

    I thinked about this question a lot, and I think, now I can say my opinion in one single and simple sentence:

    The luxurious feeling of keeping any B&O product was replaced by the expensive B&O product range. 
  • 02-11-2008 2:30 PM In reply to

    • AT
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    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    schatzoy:
    Actually B&O TVs are not so much more expensive than e.g. Loewe. The problem is that they practically have no features, such as PIP, internal HDR plus they don't have the best picture quality.


    Maybe it's my poor english knowledge (sorry to all), but what else can be more clearly specify the meaning of "expensive" than this sentence?

    IMHO, the luxury always includes the high pricing, which takes the product away from the masses - but usually there is no comparisation possibility in the luxsury business. For example, can You compare a Vacheron Constantin to anything else? A Louis Vuitton to any other brand? NO, because they have feeling, they have a status symbol, and so on.

    But in the technical business, to be a premium grade - You need a premium product. And that's what was totally lost with this B&O strategy (IMHO: War crime).

    Just let me say... a lot's of topic talking about TV's, just how hard to design a "new idea". Let me remind You, that to build anything around an LCD/Plasma screen is a lot easyer than to do it with a CRT tube. And, B&O was able to do it with a CRT, but not able to do it with a screen - without a tube? I'am sorry my Friends, but it's not an acceptable argument for me. IMHO, and just for fun: Just let's think about to put an LCD/Plasma screen into ANY(!) MX or Avant TV - and change nothing else. Can You imagine it? They used to be still amasing, without any more changes... 

    There was a topic on what shoud B&O do, or what I used to do, if I had a chance to change the B&O way...

    IMHO:

    Drop all NOT home audio/video product. They must be put into an outsource company, just like "B&O solutions", for creating solutions for NOT regular core B&O places, just like a hifi in an Audi, or mobiles for Samsung... A "Powered by B&O" sticker is quite good for this products, IMHO. To give the name for them is nothing else but to erodate the name.

    GOTO for example Canon for SED technology, and let the new TV series run with this technology ASAP. This way, the "expensivness" is a useless term in any aspect, 
    because - and of course - all new technology is expensive.

    Let's immediately start a combo HD device.

    Let's start a project to keep ALL audio/video range up to date with DVB/DAB moduls, if possible, and start the "lifetime" support for all formats campaign.

    Let's start a new, high end wireless solutions for any home.

    And so on...
  • 02-11-2008 2:42 PM In reply to

    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    To be honest.. I would not be surpised if there was a freeze on any new poducts until a new direction and strategy is agreed...

    BS5 delayed... anyone?

  • 02-11-2008 2:49 PM In reply to

    • Alex
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    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    I agree RE the 'spread too thin' comment. B&O produce fantastic A/V equipment, although they have had a few issues keeping up lately with the video advances, I think this is true of most brands to a certain degree. Their latest 'proper' audio products (BeoLab 9, BeoSound 4) have been fantastic. I find it difficult to fault the BeoLab 9, and the BS4 is IMO, B&O's best ever player. Sure their TV range has it's flaws, they did kinda miss the UK market in terms of digital and high definition, but their TVs still have a lot over the competition in terms of performance, integration, build quality and design...

    However, their latest 'ventures' into different market areas have done nothing for me. The Serene and Serenata may well have their market, but it's a very small market.

    The BeoSound 6 is nice, but IMO it's not a true B&O product in the way the BeoSound 4 is...

    B&O should stick to what they've always done best.

     Weekly top artists:                   

  • 02-11-2008 3:31 PM In reply to

    • 355f
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    • Joined on 04-19-2007
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    Re: The End Of Bang&Olufsen ?

    BnO may have well carved out a niche for themselves as a supplier to the more wealthy individuals, but facts are that said people are shoked by the price of most products now. Individuals that previously bought BnO now question the merits of paying the huge sums for Bn0 flat screen technology- or lack of it!

    One doesnt want to offend anyone on this forum but fact is the BV7 is a poor product when one considers the prive v performance for an LCD.

    Whilst it is the case that BnO produce good loudspeakers- a stand alone audio company will not survive  long term. The audio and video business has converged.

    No company in this business can survive Long term without sourcing from  the Far East- that is  afact- every major high end audio business is now doing so to produce-

    Technically advanced products at an afforable price

    Delivery of product within a sensible timeframe.

    Although BnO are at the moment profitable It will be  proved i think that the last figures were just an indication of the loss of business that BnO will suffer and within 2years i doubt this company will make any profit.

    Much mention has been made of the dealers- the BnO 'sales training' does not help much here - to much emphasis on 'buying into' a prestige brand- like ferrari or similar product. Problem is BNO cant deliver on the performance.

    So for the retail trade the emphasis needs to move away from the rather stuffy dealers to a more understanding group- with more knowledge than just the retail price!

    Its a time for a complete revamp of BnO as a company- if not they will be dead within 5 years.

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