Not good news , saw this today in German news.Maybe someone could help with translation.

just with some keywords. B&O in deep crisis, still without a new CEO and the company out of ideas. Because of thin LCD no room for designs like in the old days (CRT).

What do you think ? 

http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article1643957/Bang__Olufsen_auf_dem_absteigenden_Ast.html

Alex, your link does not work.

Try this one!

Moderator, please edit the text as a link (safari-user)

http://news.de.msn.com/wirtschaft/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=7479643 

Out of ideas? Gulp. I was in London today and visited the Selfridges B&O store and, the first thing that struck me, was that the majority (if not all?) of the products are the same as they appeared when I last visited that store....this time last year! Nothing had changed, product wise.

I guess that article is saying that the move to paper-thin LCD screens means that it's darned hard to add good quality audio to the screen. Add audio and people regard the screens as cumbersome?

Sure right. It is harder to make a distinctive flat screen than a CRT. There simply is not as much space for design as on a CRT. The article sure is right, when saying that B&O absolutely needs to launch new products and to refocus on what they are good at: audio and video products. Nothing else.

One point the article misses IMO is that B&O could do more publicity. I don't know what it is like in GB, but I have never seen an ad for B&O here in Luxembourg, Germany, France or Belgium. I am sure there are lots of potential costumers that do not know the name Bang and Olufsen, but not the products and their ease of use and their quality. 

I know this may sound harsh - but you should only spend a fortune shouting about new products that are really worth shouting about.. The brand as a whole is a bit too weak for a huge advertising push - and these are mightily expensive.

I do agree that brand awareness is at a bit of a low, and B&O should really be targeting late 20's/early 30's in my opinion - even if they are not going to buy anything but A8's for now. It's the future generations you need to be thinking about as the current generation will stay more loyal at the moment. The next generation are much harder to please, and need a few seeds planted in their heads for when B&O get really up-to-date. Can we all remember seeing the B&O ads in the 70's and 80's that intrigued us enough to go visit a dealer when we were old enough? 

Sure - even when we were in our late teens and early 20's we could only afford the little pieces, but as we get older and our budgets get bigger - we buy new and become a 'real' consumer as far as B&O's profit and loss account is concerned. 

Personally, i think a good (and cheaper) route forward is product placement - on films and television especially.  However, i'm not in marketing and don't profess to be any kind of expert. I'm sure we have some marketing guys on board though - and i'd love to hear their views!

Lee 

While they have a lead of sorts, speakers are the way forward. Shortly every man and his dog will/can have distributed audio/video wirelessly throught their abode. The transmission (probably in  wireless HD video and "HD" surround audio) are to all intents and purposes outside of B&O's control. What is left are the video and auio transducers i.e. the TV's and speakers. While they may steal short term leads in PQ the panels are out of B&O's control and the DSP involved in processing the signal will shortly become "single chip" hardware, available to all TV vendors - all that will be left is the aluminium and styling - surely never worth a 400 - 500% premium to other than die-hard fans with cash to burn.

Speakers however are electromechanical (and will be for the forseeable future). Here B&O can stamp their mark, selling a range of world beating, high quality transducers that can be "invisible" or imposing style/fashion icons while, at the same time being "best in class" in the audio quality stakes. This, I believe, is the only long term future for the company. The upcoming BS5 will be at best be a glorified "media centre" dressed up in aluminium with a shelf life of months before firstly Apple and then others match them functionally, at a shaving of the price, followed by it rapidly becoming the norm in places like Currys and Comet.

If I had a limited company budget to invest in hardware development it would definitely be in the speaker arena - anything else would seem like folly to me

The articles makes good points, however I don't think they understood the B&O culture:

- it says the shops do not attract the masses, but masses are precisely what B&O wants to avoid;

- it says the HQ is in a remote Danish location, yes, indeed, this is what makes it so unique;

- it says flat TV was a challenge for B&O design: OK, but let's not forget picture quality & integration, this is where B&O should have focused more, instead of making the mostpowerful TV loudspeaker..(think BV7-32);

- it says there are not enough product launches, however I've never seen so many new products from B&O (remember when we had 3 audio systems and 2 MX/LX TVs in the catalogues, with 4 types of speakers, 2 BeoVox RL/CX and 2 BeoLab panel + Penta);I would rather say there are not enough product upgrades.

- it partly puts the blame on the designer, the Jensen days are over, they don't mention the name of Lewis, and from a -very- personal point of view, I miss the Jensen design, yes..

- as such, I don't see the end of B&O, the danish company has survived many other hard times, like a firebird, they can always be taken over by Philips or Apple or another brand (not Samsung, please!); this is what happened to high-end car manufacturers, some of them saw a re-birth, some not, this is where the challenge is.

I think the article spots the right problems and challenges B&O faces. Looking at the stores, not so much changed in the ones I visit on a regular bases. The article says the shops are not attractive like Prada or Gucci, more like a shop for bathroom interiour....I would not say this in that way, but a bit of truth is here. 

I know that we had discussed this when we were over in Struer and the marketing guy (Kasper Eis) asked us about our opinion. One comment was the shop, we said it needs a little bit more lifestyle and glamour.

At least for Germany, B&O ads are on a lat of spaces. E.G. if you fly Lufthansa, the lounges are full of B&O gear and a lot markting stuff including the current cataloge is there. Also ads are in a lot of magazins.

From my point of view B&O should take a closer look of integration and home network. For years the Beolink was the most easy way to get your audio & video connected. Friends comming to my house are often surprised of multiroom audio and video. But these days it becomes much easier to get your gear working together (e.g. get an Apple mac, iPod and AppleTV and you are done...). So a state of the art audio and video server with the B&O ease of use in a connected house would be something I would consider.

Is Apple the leding edge for good designed and easy to use consumer electronic gear today? Looks like.... Is that a good idea to compete with the iPod or AppleTV? I don't think so...

to make a long story short:

1. I would redesign the shops

2. Invest in connectivity of the products and 3rd party devices where it makes sense for a real B&O user expirience in the 21st century

3. stop rebranding Samsung stuff.... 

Karsten 

I think B&O still do some form of product placement.. there is a website knocking about on the tinternet that works for companies like B&O placing items in films, programmes etc, cannot remember what its called...

No surpise here though.. you could see that B&O were desperatly trying to cash in on the mobile, MP3 market by launching expsenvive copies of thier cheap counterparts.. people are not that stupid and will see through this and I think sales are probably not what they have expected? in order to secure and further other ideas they may have had in the pipeline for the samsung /B&O venture?

Re the store.. its a hard one as I would imagine this would not be cheap.. and do franchises need another cost? one that could criple the dealer network? 

The advant of the plasma tv has to a certain degree "ruined" conventional TV design, how many times can someone reinvent a flatscreen? CRT as many have said was very different and still is challenging but can someone better BV7?

Very interesting times ahead....

I hate to say this but I think Puncher is absolutely 100% correct. However I have my doubts that the company will recognise / accept this and even if they do, they probably would not be able to restructure and reduce their size quickly enough to survive.

I have read other posts that pooh pooh the forray into the car market with Audi. I dissagree - I think this is an excellent way to increase brand awareness especially in their loudspeaker specialist niche.

Very worrying times for their employees - I wish them all well but fear the end well may be nigh...

Cheers

Nigel..

Tom:

Sure right. It is harder to make a distinctive flat screen than a CRT. There simply is not as much space for design as on a CRT. The article sure is right, when saying that B&O absolutely needs to launch new products and to refocus on what they are good at: audio and video products. Nothing else.

It is not about new products - it is about the RIGHT products

Take the Beosound 9000 - spot on with design and function (could be updated in minor detals e.g. to include DAB radio or better INFO display)

But the feel you get when you change a CD, with an acceleration outperforming any ferrari - does no other product offer.

I have note seen the new buildt in camera in Beovision 4 - I only hope it is not made of cheap plastic - then this product could give you a special feel

Why does people wear mechanical watches - not to have the most precise time - but because it makes them feel good

Not a very strong artikel.

Gucci and prada can you buy on every corner , and are nice designed  but not so exclusive.

Yes is there still a market for audio sets if you can download every nummer or movie from the net. Yes speakers will be important and mybe a B&O download centre in a very nice design and ergonomie??

Oh yes appel is super we have a hole studio full of it so B&O use you designers

 The audio/video market will change a lot the next years but people have just bought there

cheap lcd screens to be in fasion do the whant to spent money every year on a new trend?

gr eric

h1npw:

I have read other posts that pooh pooh the forray into the car market with Audi. I dissagree - I think this is an excellent way to increase brand awareness especially in their loudspeaker specialist niche.

Very worrying times for their employees - I wish them all well but fear the end well may be nigh...

Agreed, the car venture is good in that what you are buying is B&O, not rebranded B&O. ALT in the car may lead to ALT in the home and thats where it begins... just as long as B&O is not found in the lower end of the car market (no disrespect intended) as this would tarnish the brands exclusivity... imo..

I would not say the end is nigh.. but I feel that there will be a cut in jobs, money for R&D and a possible move of production out of Denmark to the east as many have talked of....

Its not about what is right, its about what is best to safeguard the future of a company that has such a wonderful history and to protect it from the fallout of a possible global recession.  

I would imagine there will be some very tough decisons being made as we speak... end of year reports will be eagerly anticipated... 

h1npw:

I hate to say this but I think Puncher is absolutely 100% correct.

Nigel..

Am I that objectionable??

Not at all!!!!

I hate to say it - as in - I hate to say that B&O might end.... 

Apple has lost 40% of its market value in 6 weeks, mostly since MacWorld.  Are they one the way out, as well?

r

Tom:

IMO is that B&O could do more publicity. I don't know what it is like in GB, but I have never seen an ad for B&O here in Luxembourg, Germany, France or Belgium. I am sure there are lots of potential costumers that do not know the name Bang and Olufsen, but not the products and their ease of use and their quality. 

Schoener Wohnen (housing), Manager Magazin etc.

They DO advertise... (not in playboy magazine though ;-) so depends on the magazines you read... ;-) just kidding, Tom)

Ralf

The biggest mistake B&O ever made was the link system and its descendants.

Whatever the technical merits, the problem is that it broke any sort of compatibility with other manufacturers, why they didn't allow for plain old analogue connection to run in parallel is not for me to comment, but as a strategic move is was pretty bad.

The problem is this, you cannot buy one part of a B&O system and hook it up to whatever you have, and then maybe buy the next component, so in effect you have to shell out for a certain amount in order to get the critical components simply to produce any result at all.

This means that entry level to B&O is extremely high indeed - there is such as thing as acquisition over time.

 It means that I cannot buy a set of Beolab 1s and connect to other manufacturers equipment, I have to then go out and buy a B&O source too, and this puts B&O a long way out of reach of most folk, folk who might well be prepared to buy B&O if they could just get it a bit at a time.

That was largely the merit of the component system, you could buy one piece at a time, as and when you could afford it, and in the end you probably would spend more with B&O if only to get a matching set.

Once you have that entry level, then you can add to it, but its quite a leap onto the first step.

I think B&O wanted to be too exclusive the last years. They asked extreme prices for products to make the people feel they bought something exclusive. They did in the way that not many people could afford it anymore.

But the product offered was often far from exclusive. (technologicly and looks)

More and more people looked through that facade and now they are paying the price for it.

So come on Struer, go back to realistic prices and you will see how the tides can turn :-)

I both disagree and agree, thinking you are mixing - a bit - two (or three) things together, namely availability of money and desirability (and exclusivity).

Bingo:

I think B&O wanted to be too exclusive the last years ... They did in the way that not many people could afford it anymore.

......

So come on Struer, go back to realistic prices and you will see how the tides can turn :-)

 I disagree, but feel I know what you mean ...

Bingo:

More and more people looked through that facade and now they are paying the price for it.

Partially agree: in a sense that B&O kind of missed the plot and became less disirable to a number of their current and potential customers. I would though, first of all, blame their poor marketing & sales communication (perhaps as a result of the barriers between the engineers and the rest of the company?) - not to mention their (lack of) communication with those who actually bought something from them.

Regarding enough money around, have a look at the illustration, Bingo. I'm not saying that everyone with more than plenty should buy, but money can't be the problem here, obviously ... it's indeed B&O's problem to start chasing them.

Finally, it's not only B&O whose shares are having a tough ride these day ... thumbs up for them they might need it.

I agree with Bingo that the focus is too much on the rich. Even though this might result in their biggest turnover, I believe this will not work on the long run.

I still remember when an uncle of mine took me to a B&O shop the first time, I was truly amazed by all the exclusive gear. When my uncle bought his first equipment I really fell in love. After several years I was able to buy my first gear from my first salary (beovox 4500 speakers, still love them!) and slowly build a complete system from their.

If I look at the current collection I do not see a real option to do that: everybody that wants to build their main tv/audio setup wants a dolby digital surround setup. To do that with B&O you need a very expensive TV. Therefore I see no easy way to enter the product range and slowly build a complete system.

Furthermore the focus on B&O only stores (instead of stores selling B&O next to other brands) also does not help to interest people in the brand.

Just my thoughts!

Bieele 

Wow!  This thread is indeed a tale of woe.  Since my experiences with Bang&Olufsen goes back in time a little more than most on this forum, I have a few observations.

My first B&O purchase was at an audiophile dealer who also sold B&O in a separate room.  When I asked to see a Beomaster 5000, I was given several reasons why it wasn't as good as their other offerings.  I actually didn't understand what audiophile meant but I knew I liked the design and sound of the Beomaster 5000.  I not only bought the Beomaster 5000, but ultimately bought a Beogram 5000 and a Beogram CD50 plus speakers.  I enjoyed this system for many years.  B&O having their own stores was a welcomed change and remains so today.

In the later 80's B&O almost disappeared and became part of Phillips.  Some of the products were not as good as they should have been.  This was not because of Phillips but I think B&O just got lost in the massive corporate structure.

In the nineties, B&O was back on their own and produced many of the classic products that are being manufactured today.

I think we should wait it out and give them a chance to refine their strategy.  My personal opinion is the B&O should not do digital media at all such as Beosound 6, Beomedia 1, and the forthcoming Beosound 5.  I don't think they can do better a better job than Apple, Microsoft, and others who have significant resources.

I hope I have the history correct but B&O was virtually unknown in the US during the eighties. 

It will be inetersting to see how all of the worlds economy plays out.  Here in the States it was announced that Walmart Gift cards were not being used for TV's or DVD players but more practical items. 

Personally I feel I have bcome more conservative meaning I buy once and use it till it can go no more.  My spending habits are no boost to the economy by any means.

Purchasing quality like B&O allows me to do this.  I like the quality and the design will satisfy me for years.  Buying a good product that has a long life versus the latest gadget that may be cheaper becomes boring or it falls apart before I am ready, forcing me to by the next cheap product. Just look at what happening with DVD players, too many are suffering from upgraditis, first it was it must be progressive scan, then must have a DVI, then must have HDMI, now trash that, we need Blue Ray HD DVD  why doesn't B&O give me what I want and now and whay does it have to cast so much more?  If your that type of person, then B&O my friend is not for you and thats ok with me.  I like what I have and will happily watch others keep pouring money into the latest bit of techno garbage for thrill to have the latest and greatest for about six months.

The general public, especially in the US has become one of quick satisfaction, throw it away, buy another, throw it away.  Sorry this is no way to go through life. 

Roger

Personally I don't think that LCD TVs can not be "designed". I don't know where this is coming from, the BV5 is definitely a classic for me and I consider BC6 and BV7 very good designs as well. I think by playing with the speaker design and mounting / stand options a designer can do a lot. I still think the Beoliving setup looks very classy with the BL7 on the bench below the screen.

For store design, I would not expect much from a re-design. I think that they don't do enough product placement. "Ari Gold's" Office in Entourage that had BS9000 and BC2 if I recall correct, that was very good. I don't think though it was placed since they missed the Beovision.

So if B&o will come to an end for instance in the year 2011 then the:  BV7, BV5, BV9, BV4, BC6 /  BL 5, BL 9, BL3 ,BS9000 and BL 8000 will be like having an old Bentley or a Rolls Roys in the living-room ;)

The last "technical fine art" in the world are going to be extinguished if so...