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Untitled Page
ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012 READ ONLY FORUM
This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and
1st March February 2012
Latest post 10-11-2010 10:09 AM by Doctor. 80 replies.
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Dave Moulton


- Joined on 05-12-2007
- Groton, MA, USA
- Posts 108

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
I assume you (saf) are asking "How does the sound compare?" between Ulysses, the Truly Ugly Monstrosity and the BeoLab 5.
Ulysses is right up there with the absolute best loudspeakers I've ever heard. In general, I like the top end slightly more than the BL5, and for a while I revoiced my BL5s to match Ulysses. I stopped doing that because I found it made mastering work a little more difficult (two listening platforms ae twice as hard as one!). On the downside, Ulysses is passive and does not have bass correction. Also, if we had decided to try to sell them, we would have had to charge about $17K USD per speaker, so they definitely weren't price competitive with the BL5. It was an interesting engineering effort. We still use a pair at the lab as reference listening speakers.
The Truly Ugly Monstrosity that Craig got a picture of (I think of it as "the Mule") also sounds really good. As I recall, the bass is a little more restrained (but still prodigious) and the top end not quite as pristine as either the BL5 or Ulysses. It was a prototype, remember, and all the electronics were outboard. I remember we mostly used Penta amplifiers and virtual cross-overs, plus Jan Abildgaard's magic bass algorithms, as residing in a laptop computer.
Is this what you wanted to know?
Keep in mind that prototypes are usually rude and crude! Also, the acoustic designer on the project, Gert Munch, got really obsessive with the BeoLab 5 and kept tweaking it and tweaking it until we threatened serious violence and mayhem. Even then, he kept tweaking for a while as I recall. I think he did a magnificent job!
Best regards,
Dave
Sausalito Audio LLC
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saf


- Joined on 04-17-2007
- Posts 458

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
Yes that was it: thank you for another bit of a very interesting story behind the BL5s, Dave.
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Emmanuel92



- Joined on 02-14-2007
- Paris
- Posts 2,032

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
Many thanks Andy for this great work ! I have just put it on the gallery.
Quoi de mieux qu'un BeoLab 2 ? 2 BeoLab 2 !
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mobeyone


- Joined on 03-27-2007
- UK
- Posts 955

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
Second that Saf and another thank you Dave! Another question if its possible for you to answer? what was the "working" relationship like with B&O? did you have total control over the adaption ALT? and did you have a say in the overall design of the lab5 or did your contribution just stop at the prototype stage? Understand if you are unable to answer but it is fascinating to read what went into the creation of the lab5!
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Jandyt



- Joined on 04-01-2007
- Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
- Posts 13,004

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
How kind Emmanuel  You are doing a great job with the Photo section. I have more to add to this thread over the next few days. When it is finnished, will you have the facility to make changes due to my innaccuracies?
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Dave Moulton


- Joined on 05-12-2007
- Groton, MA, USA
- Posts 108

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
In response to mobeyone's query about our (Sausalito Audio's) working relationship with B&O:
From my standpoint, the work situation was extremely collegial, friendly and creatively open on the research side of things. There was a team of sorts in the Acoustics Department, headed up by Poul Praestgaard (who was the White Knight for the BeoLab 5 - the inside corporate driver who made it happen) supported by Gert Munch (acoustic measurement and development), Jan Abildgaard Pedersen (bass correction), Manny LaCarrubba and myself (ALT). Also, the head of the listening room, Jan Larsen, contributed a great deal (he has fabulous analytical ears), as did many others (Peter Chapman and Frank Basrup come to mind especially).
I made almost 20 trips to Struer from 1997 through 2004, usually for a week or two at a time. We would review and discuss research and ongoing product development progress, and we all spent quite a lot of time listening, evaluating, discussing and arguing. Manny and I stuck our nose in wherever they would let us - so we got a chance to consider final steps on the BeoLab 1, the BeoLab 2, and automotive efforts as well as BeoLabs 5, 3 and 9 (the latter actually evolved from a "studio monitor" project that was cancelled in 2001, much to my disappointment). We also made a point of staying in touch with Soren Bech, and following his research efforts in perception. Remember, he is the one who put us in touch with B&O in the first place.
David Lewis was fairly shy and reserved, and did most of his work independently, interacting mostly with Poul Praestgaard. I became completely convinced of his genius on the studio monitor project, when he created a "perfect" black-box studio monitor (designerd to sit on top of a mixing console) that simply made all of the other small studio monitors in the world look really stupid! This was a completely "unB&O"-like design that didn't look pretty or elegant or cute at all - it looked "perfectly" industrial and functional. As I said, he is a genius at visualization! I got to know him a little better later in our work, and like him a lot.
In a formal corporate sense, we had no say at all - B&O did their research, prototyping and product development as they pleased. I do think they respected our ideas and suggestions, and particularly our ears and knowledge of the recording and audio industry, and little by little, we became (and still are) "family."
I really enjoyed the quality of information-sharing and the sense of team effort. It made it really easy to work, and is central to much of B&O's long-term success, I think. Ideas are not political, they are ways of thinking, and the sharing of ideas leads to their transmutation and new ideas that are often quite startling. Some are wonderful, some are terrible. Little by little, they get refined and the terrible ones fall by the wayside. The BeoLab 5 is so rich in ideas and refinement that it has been one of the most satisfying efforts with which I have ever been involved.
To sum it up, I regularly get homesick for Struer. I even seriously considered retiring there. And that really says what it was like to work with B&O. Immensely fun and satisfying.
Thanks for asking.
Best regards,
Dave
Sausalito Audio LLC
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Jandyt



- Joined on 04-01-2007
- Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
- Posts 13,004

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
Thanks Dave for the very informative post. Before I add my last clump of photographs to this thread, I must mention a little of what Dave M is working on. Dave composes and records music, mostly electronically and with synthesizers. I think he describes it as 'loudspeaker music' We all know how thrilling it is to watch an action film in 5.1 surround sound. A famous clip springs to mind where a helicopter comes up from over the edge of a ravine. In 5.1 this sounds stunning, but imagine this scenario.... .....a sixth channel that goes into an overhead speaker!! Now imagine the helicopter flying towards you and then over your head! Wouldn't that sound awesome!!! You would get sounds from above and from the distant horizon and from all places in between. We all know that Dave has five Beolab 5s in his 8000 cubic feet studio, in his 1725 New England home, but he also has a Beolab strapped unceremoniously to one of the beams over his head. I'd really love to go and see and hear this. Perhaps in the year 2020, we will all have vertical/horizontal true surround sound systems. Just how many dimensions this is, I'm not sure Read much more on this subject on Dave's website, here. Meanwhile, back in King Street, I had managed to get on Dave J's laptop, to let you all know I was still with you. I am not very good at working that mousey-paddy thing on a laptop. I wrote a lengthy reply to Soundproofs question to Dave M about lightning and surge protectors on his sound equipment---- then deleted it by accident!
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Puncher



- Joined on 03-27-2007
- Nr. Durham, NE England.
- Posts 9,588

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
saf:Why does Lee look sooo serious? 
.............. and does he need glasses?? He should go to Specsavers!
Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.
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mobeyone


- Joined on 03-27-2007
- UK
- Posts 955

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
Thanks for the reply Dave, sounds like a fantastic relationship! Sorry for hijacking your thread Andy!
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Jandyt



- Joined on 04-01-2007
- Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
- Posts 13,004

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
No problem Mobe.  Before long, it was time to go and find a pub! Dave M, Dave J, Ian, Lee, Simon, Laura, her friend and myself all went over the road to a 'proper' pub. This is Dave on the way out with his furry white hat and still eating.
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Jandyt



- Joined on 04-01-2007
- Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
- Posts 13,004

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
We were only in the pub for a short while when the bell went for last orders. I couldn't believe it was nearly eleven o'clock! I also thought the licensing laws might have been more accomodating in Manchester. Needless to say, we didn't want the evening to end there, so we elected to go somewhere to eat. The two girls decided to call it a do so the remaining six of us went to find a restaurant. We headed to Chinatown. Amazingly, many Chinese restaurants were also closing. The wind was an icy blare, it had been threatening to snow all day. I felt like apologising to Dave M for the weather, until he informed us that they had had 18 inches of snow the previous week in Massachusets! We eventually found an eating establisment that was open and we all went in, out of the cold. Dave J decided to 'say Grace' in Mandarin while we all pretended to look serious.
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Jandyt



- Joined on 04-01-2007
- Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
- Posts 13,004

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
Lee and myself, neither of us looking at our best. The huge, round, white thing in the foreground is Dave Jenning's head!
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saf


- Joined on 04-17-2007
- Posts 458

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
Jandyt:I couldn't believe it was nearly eleven o'clock!
My goodness: good I read your comment- and clicked to enlarge the picture, Andy . I'd have sworn the guys were engaged in a game of poker. Well, they were just tired. 
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Jandyt



- Joined on 04-01-2007
- Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
- Posts 13,004

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
Well, we all enjoyed our meal, though the hot and sour soup was a little too hot for me. This is the last picture of the thread. I bet Lee would agree with me when I say I wish I was as photogenic as you, Dave. ~ I'd like to thank Dave Moulton for letting us know that he was coming to Manchester and for giving up an evening of his UK trip for us. Dave, it was a great pleasure meeting you and hearing all your tales. I feel sure our paths will cross again on one side of the pond or other. A big thank you goes to Dave Jennings for inviting Dave M and all the rest of us to his dealership. Thanks Ian Kinsella, Graham and Chris for making us feel welcome too. Thanks Lee, for dragging your Mac up to Manchester and the hard work you put into doing the first Beoworld, roadshow prize draw. Biggest thanks, as always goes to my fellow Beoworlders for following yet another of my photo' threads and putting up with my usual drivel! (I wonder what my next one will be  )
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Jandyt



- Joined on 04-01-2007
- Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
- Posts 13,004

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
You'll be pleased to note, that I have re-added all my photo's to this thread.
Andy T.
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bayerische


- Joined on 12-11-2007
- Helsinki, Finland
- Posts 3,593

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
Thanks Andy! 
I remember viewing this thread before, but it was great fun going through it again!
-Andreas
BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2
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Craig



- Joined on 03-29-2007
- Costa Del St Evenage
- Posts 4,855

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
Thanks Andy, I remember this thread from when you originally posted it. It's been great to read through it again.
Craig
For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then
something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. We
learned to talk and we learned to listen..
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folkdeejay


- Joined on 06-07-2010
- Posts 206

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Re: Dave Moulton, King Street, the prize draw........and me.
Perhaps.
BUT....Prior to my B&O phase, I spent a decade installing mainly UK made 2 channell audio kit - primarily Linn/Naim/Rega and Arcam stuff.
Old habits die hard, and I have done countless presentations where an A/B comparison of speakers involved changing just the speakers - and using a comparator is basically illegal in that world.
As far as possible, the "signal path" had to remain unchanged whenerver anything is compared - so whilst plugging and unplugging is indeed a bit low-tech, it removes any variables that could be seen to skew the results of the comparison.
Also, in hi-fi circles, any device with three or four outputs and one input could/would be seen as a variable - ie, one output could sound "better" (different) to another.
So.....I plugged and unplugged.
Andy - if you ever find yourself in a UK hifi specialists, ask the about Peter Belt, Russ Andrews or the whole "mains cleaning" industry.
It's a whole new world of tweaky madness.
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